claiming maintenance off a father that is not on the birth certificate, what happens?

[j20baby]

quick background-ex left when i became pg, says he wants nothing to do with either of us and told his family she is not his child(even though he knows full well that she is!) he made threats to burn my house down and we got moved, baby id due in Oct, so he wont be on the birth certificate as we're not married and i know he wont be interested, what do i do about claiming maintenance if he carries on saying hes not the father?

[nappyaddict]

he must have known what the commitment was like if you already had a child though. men ay. who'd have em.

[Neuro]

hey Chorusline thanks for the link. I've put a rambling message on there.
Hurray for cool single mums! X

[skyatnight]

Flightattendant - hi, I have lurked on your thread a lot. The situation with your ex and your ex MIL sounds really annoying. I do want my dd to see her father but I can see, from your experience, and that of others, that it is possible for it to be far from beneficial and actually can cause damage to the children concerned. I feel for your ds1.

I'm not sure how much it helps me to write down my story here. Perhaps it just dredges up all the grief again. I've been so busy just looking after my lo that I've not had too much time to dwell on things. And my father died 18 months ago which was a huge sadness to me. Sometimes, when I read other people's posts though, it brings it all back and I feel the need to share my story.

I still can't believe that my ex laid it on so thick, how he'd never felt this way about anyone before, that I was the love of his life, telling me about his fantasies of me with a pram and our child. I can't understand why he would do that and then, at the first sign of any difficulties, just give up and walk away from his responsibilities. I think one of the reasons he pays maintenance is because he wants to be in the right, it salves his conscience. I suppose I should be grateful.

I can't believe I had such poor judgement. It has really affected my self confidence. Why did I choose this particular man to have a child with when previous boyfriends would definitely have made better partners and fathers? I've had other people wanting to marry me and have children with me. I could have emigrated to Australia with one of them.

Who knows. I think, in some ways, I do have a difficult personality. I have very high expectations of people and perhaps I don't give enough back? Likewise, some of the signs were there with him. He had been married before and does suffer from depression on and off. Some of the way he behaved didn't match what he was saying. I chose to ignore the warning signe so I suppose I only have myself to blame.

Going forward, I wish I could be/feel a bit more like Neuro or some of the others and be positive about single-motherhood. There are many positives about parenting on your own and, in any case, it's the cards I have been dealt so I'd better make the most of it rather than let my life waste away, time drift by, ruminating about the past and dwelling on my anger. There are so many people who are worse off and we are all prisoners of circumstance to one degree or the other, even happily married parents.

[Neuro]

Skyatnight.

I'm sorry to hear you sounding so down. I know it's easier said than done, but can you try to seperate your feelings for the baby's father from your own towards the baby itself and the future?

I am not surprised the situation has knocked your confidence, these things happen. But it's not what happens to you that is important but how you cope with it. BUT, it is his stuff, so try really hard not to put that onto yourself.

Now, you sound like a very nice woman, and when i was young a family friend said to me 'it doesn't matter if you dont' have two parents that love you, as long as you have one good one that does', and that sounds like you Skyatnight! Women are generally better at coping and getting on with it, no matter how hard the circumstances. You need to concentrate on being the best person you can be so you know when you rest your head on your pillow at night that you did the best you could that day. Take each day as it comes and give yourself a pat on the back because a as a parent you've got the best job to do. And if you conduct yourself well with your child's father it will sink in unconcsioulsy with him/her that his mum is an adult who knows how to behave. It'll him/her in his relationships when he/she is older.

My father was awful - a violent, alchoholic, gave mum no money, regular beatings for many years EVEN after their divorce. He was a nightmare. And you know what, my brother and I have turned out nice well behaved human beans because we had a good mum.

So, to recap: be best YOU can be, try not to be bothered by other people too much because you're not responsible for them and there's nothing you can do apart from be your good self.

Sorry! i sound like a right lecturer! But I am proof that all you need is one decent parent and believe me, the rest of my family weren't that great either. But who cares? Life is meant to be good.

If you haven't already watched it, check out Blood Diamond on DVD. It's a great film and it's made me not get too cross about life stuff and has re-affirmed how easy we have it in the West.

Oh yeah and final Neuro Tip: Only wear clothes that you feel good in and bin the rest! Better to have 3 or 4 good outfits than 20 half hearted ones. And you don't need money to look good.

Phew, i ought to do some work, but i'm pregnant and dying to get home and pig out!

Peace to all the sistas! XXXX

p.s. final tip (oh gawd you'll never rid of me...if at bedtime things are really on your mind, write them on a piece of paper and put the piece of paper outside your bedroom door and say to yourself 'i shall pick up these problems/issues in the morning'). Brilliant eh? It doesn't work just saying the words to yourself, it's something to do with putting the problems outside your bedroom.

[skyatnight]

I'm ok Neuro, thanks. As you say, just need to look forward instead of back.

I have felt like I was going loopy at times in the last couple of years. Went to the doctor for antidepressants at one point but didn't end up taking them. My daughter looks so like her father that it has taken me a while to see how much she is her own person. It helps that she is now talking with her own cheeky sense of humour (his was completely different). My Dad dying really knocked me for six and I had moved to be near him when he was ill so hardly knew anyone around here. Tough times but things are getting better.

I'm sorry to hear what you've said about your father. Really awful. That must have been so tough for you, your mum and your brother but, as you say, it just goes to show that you only need one good parent to turn out fine.

I'll try and take some of your good advice. I sometimes already do the one about writing things down before going to bed. It does help. I've just recently moved home to a better place and I'm currently on a health kick, good diet and exercise. It does help with mood and energy. (I did a lot of comfort-eating when dd was tiny - I was so tired and it seemed one of the few pleasures available to me.) Us single parents, we need as much energy as we can get!!

How's your pregnancy going, how many months are you?

[j20baby]

hi guys, sorry i can't write mush as i am very busy, just had to say

'how he'd never felt this way about anyone before, that I was the love of his life, telling me about his fantasies of me with a pram and our child. I can't understand why he would do that and then, at the first sign of any difficulties, just give up and walk away from his responsibilities'

thats exactly what i got from my ex, but it seems that is so easy for him to walk away now, he's threatened to burn my house down if i told his parents about lo, he said he hopes the baby dies as i am a bad mother!(because i choose to let my dd see her dad, even though she comes back very cheeky and full of it, but that is another story!)

noone can understand why he suddenly turned like this, perhaps i'll never know.

sky-you do sound very down, i hope you can work through this and know that it isn't your fault, some men are just born twats!

i think my ex is one of them people who gets off on falling in love, but then it doesn't last very long, will be trying not to make that mistake again!

[skyatnight]

J20 - yes, I think my ex was in love with falling in love (or rather himself) too. I think they are narcissistic (personality disorder) fantasists. The kick for them is in the chase, convincing you to love them. Once that happens, they lose all interest. Seems perverse to me.

It's such a shock when it happens and I can understand why you would want him to acknowledge his child, to prove to everyone that you are not the loony one. You and I are the same in this. I think my ex wants me to say I won't allow him to see dd and then he is off the hook and can blame me, but I would never do that. But flightattendant has some salutary advice and it is worth thinking about, hard. Your ex sounds like a charmer (not). I hope his violent threats are just that?

Re. him saying you are a bad mother. My ex told me I wouldn't be able to manage on my own, that I wasn't strong enough. I do suffer from PMS and can be a bit moody. He told me that I was a prime candidate for PND. I think they will say anything to undermine your confidence, because they can't handle not having any control over the situation (i.e. they cannot force you to have a termination).

It's easier said than done to not let it get to you but, obviously, it's very important to stay calm and look after yourself well when you are pregnant, to avoid stress to yourself and the baby. I know you know this already because you have another child so just thinking aloud really.

[nightowl]

sorry quick hyjack,

hoolagirl, there is a way you can get the father's name on the birth cert?

dd's father would never let me put his on, denied being the father to everyone we knew (but not to csa, just ignored them which made little difference as they still caught up with him in the end).

i HATE the fact his space is blank, hate it. is there a way to get it put on? i know he wouldnt agree to it still.

[flightattendant]

Just wanted to add that saying any of this stuff to people who haven't seen it themselves is really weird and empty...you end up joking about it or something. But you have been there, you know what it is, what it means...that is so so important. Thankyou just for understanding. Feels real again now

[j20baby]

evening all, it isn't really that i want my ex to see the baby, i want his family to at least know about her, they dote on his son, and whilst i don't neccesarily want them to do that, i would like it if they at least accepted her, but they wont while he's lying through his teeth, making me out to not be right in the head, my mother is not much of a mum atm let alone a grandma, and i just want this lo to have a decent grandma!

FA-i am horrified at the way your ex treated you but not suprised, the shitbag! yes, they do take away your self esteem, and that can stay with you for such a long time.

sky-its sounds to me like we're talking about the same bloke! they definately get off on getting our love and then breaking our hearts, i don't even want to try and understand them.

no threats have been carried out so far, but i have moved house and also my dd's school, i am not due till October so i don't know if there will be repercusions from me naming him to the CSA, which, if he had a half a brain, he would realise that i wouldn't do that if he would allow his family to be involved, but its the only way i can think of to prove she is his child to them.

i am going away for the weekend but will check back in on tue, i hope this thread hasn't upset any of you and has only served to make us all realise that it is not our faults and our dc's are probably better off without the sperm donors.

take care all of you

[skyatnight]

flightattendant - brrrhhh, scary scary....!:

You've written:
'I broke down and he held me (He liked to do that when he'd upset me, perverse need to be the 'big man'? I don't know) and said the thing that changed the way I saw him forever - 'You haven't got very much self esteem, have you?' Me - 'I don't know.' Him - 'You could take the most beautiful woman in the world, and take away her self esteem, and she would be really unattractive. That's what has happened to you'.
I just remember thinking, 'Oh, so that was what you've been trying to do to me'.

• that is really chilling! creepy.
  I bet he said it in a quiet, casual voice, like he was talking about the weather?
  
  Warning TMI but, once things went bad, my ex used to like to upset me and would then become quickly turned on by it. He would ask me to go to his house because he 'missed' me and, despite my better judgement, I would go because I was desperate to try and sort something out. He would then pretend that he hadn't invited me. He would ignore me, as if I wasn't even in the room, making meals for himself or pottering about. When I lost patience and spoke to him directly, he would act as if I was picking a fight. Whatever I said, he would be really obtuse and off-hand. I would end up weeping tears of frustration and disbelief. I felt like I was losing my mind. He would then want to cuddle and sleep with me. He tried to convince me it was all in my head, that I was too needy and I was pushing him away because of my own fear of abandonment (and other psychobabble...) He was both excited by, but detested, my vulnerability.
  
  I remember he invited me over and said we were going to the pub. I didn't want to go because it was really smoky, I had morning sickness and kept heaving. I told him I had to leave and he said I was pathetic and just trying to ruin his evening. Another time, he went to the pub on his own. I went to hug him when he came back. He was drunk and shouted at me, he was really really angry and frightening. It felt like a feeling of horror or terror. I had to go and wretch in the sink, crying my eyes out and he just sat in his chair reading a book. He had no concern for my welfare as a pregnant woman or for the baby.
  
  This stage of our relationship didn't go on very long because, after these things happened, I couldn't fool myself that there was any hope any more, despite him still saying there was a chance and he knew he had behaved badly and we should talk about it.
  
  Similar to your ex, he tried to undermine my self esteem in lots of little ways. If I had heard this kind of story when I was younger, and before this had happened to me, I would have smugly felt that it could never happen to me - why doesn't the woman just get out of the situation? But it's different when it happens to you and when you love (or think you do) someone. And obviously when you're pregnant and vulnerable. Emotional abuse is subtle. The first few times it happens, you dismiss it as an exception, an abberration. Then you start to think it is your fault. He was so loving and nice until I got pregnant. I think I was too assertive for his liking but a challenge to him which he liked. Once I was trapped (pregnant), I actually needed him and he found that a turn-off.
  
  What I don't understand is, if they don't really want you, why do they go so far as to get you pregnant? Surely, that's not in their interest? There's something pathological about it. They have to dominate you and take away all your power.
  
  As j20baby says, it's probably better to not even try and understand it. I just hope there isn't something intrinsic about me that attracts this kind of man but I have had nice boyfriends in the past so I must have just been unlucky this time.
  
  Yuk, can't believe I've written this down. It's just hard to accept that he is the father of my dd.

[skyatnight]

j20baby - I understand about wanting his family to accept your baby when he/she arrives. Even if the Dad doesn't see the baby, why should it miss out on the whole of his side of the family. I have the contact details for my ex's family but I haven't contacted them because I know it would really make him angry and also they might not be receptive anyway. I've never met them and they might all be as bad as him.

You just have to do as you think best re. the CSA. In some ways, I wish my ex did not pay maintenance as it makes me feel beholden to him. I might get more or less money via the CSA or possibly nothing at all, as he is very vindictive, but sometimes I am tempted to do it anyway as it might be worth it to be free of him financially (to get my self-respect back) and also that he might be asked to do the DNA test.

I just don't want to upset the apple-cart at the moment or disturb the uneasy truce. It's a case of things might get worse, not better.

Re. the threats, I expect you are keeping a note of them? As other people have said in other threads, it is important to write these things down in case you need them as evidence in the future.

I hope you have a good weekend away.

[skyatnight]

flightattendant - I empathise with what you say about saying this stuff to other people. I don't talk about it to my brother and sister or friends any more. It just sounds too freaky. They don't want to hear about it. They suggest I get over it or go and see a counsellor. They just want me to be ok and to see that I am getting on with my life.

[skyatnight]

Sorry - got a bit self-indulgent last night, writing that down. It was just reading flightattendant's post brought it all back -how wretched and lost I felt at the time. Maybe I can think about this now because I am actually moving forward again with dd and my life, after the first couple of years of just fire-fighting (breastfeeding, nappies, her first few illnesses with fever, no time to myself) and grieving my Dad.

It is common for things to get a bit nasty towards the end of a relationship. He never hit me. It was just really upsetting in other ways and I hadn't experienced anything like that before. Other people have worst things to cope with or have survived them.

[flightattendant]

Sky honey I read your posts earlier and hadn't had time to write. I think we have such a lot in common it's setting us all off reading each others stories...a bit like a support group, I certainly find it jolts me into reality and though it hurts to recall that stuff, it is good as it lets the pain/fear/ anger out a bit at a time. I am glad you said the things you did because it really helped me. I was starting to feel like a weirdo who must have made it all up, IRL...so nothing in this thread has been wasted as far as I'm concerned.

Thinking of you and J20, xx

[j20baby]

hi sorry this will have to be a quicky, as i am way out of the door! just had to respond to FA's last post, i know that i definately go numb after being hurt, and just have to let myself think about things a little bit at a time and deal with it, maybe this is why the healing process takes such a long time, i think its a defence mechanism.

hope this made sense.

have a nice weekend

[ChorusLine]

Hi Neuro - Saw that you had your message on there! I completely agree with you - I told her my single mum story (but sent her an e-mail) as not brave enough to out on MN yet! They have asked me to be photographed and interviewed for it - will let you know how it goes!

[Neuro]

Ohmygod Skyatnight i've just read your post about your ex. You poor woman. Shit. Sounds very much like you've had a lucky escape. I went out with bit of a nutter when i was about 19, was first guy i fell in love with and boy was he f**ked up.

So wishing you lots of luck and hope he stays away as much as possible. It is always stunning to hear of people behaving badly like that, esp worse since you were preggers.

Good luck lady!

Hi Chorusline - she did want to use my story but the baby's father wasn't keen, and as he's done such a nice thing for me i couldn't go against his wishes. Still, quite flattering eh?!

See ya and good luck all you other ladies on here. I know there are some terrible men out there but don't forget there are just as many good ones too - they just need a bit of hunting down!!!