***ing XH the lazy selfish git

[DointItForTheKids]

Just needing to vent. I struggle with injustice in general but after 11 YEARS of being separated/divorced, to say it starts to heavily grate on me would be rather a large understatement.

XH agreed to see his DD (and mine (obvs ha ha!) age 16) since he hadn't seen her for 6 months (that gives an indication of the type of 'man' we're dealing with here, she goes for months and months without seeing him despite her desire, often expressed to him, that she wants to see him).

He clearly messages her saying 'he can't leave the house on boxing day as he'll be preparing the dinner' so if I can 'drop her' (a 120 mile 4 hour round trip) he'll (and I quote) "we will get DD back to [name of the exact town we live in]".

Now since I drove all the way (and in light of the fact that I've had no child support for 7 months I thought me saying yes ok I'll bring her down to you, was a pretty generous offer), it seemed to me that this was a case of a reciprocal arrangement, I'll drop her there to your door, you'll drop her back here to her door. So it satisfied me on those ground because it was fair at least.

Not only is this a case of what is fair, but it's also that I was only happy with this arrangement because DD finds travel, on trains particularly, REALLY stressful. She has anxiety and has had near panic attacks on the train before.

He comes in to DD in her room to say "oh we'll get you home on the train". Now, he doesn't know her, he doesn't know anything about her, so when he says "yeah train, that ok?". She says yes because she feels rather pressured*. Then she texts me and I reach apoplectic immediately because this is the LAST thing she needs.

He is proposing that a 16 year old (leaving aside the anxiety for a moment) should travel home unaccompanied by THREE trains and TWO CHANGES OF TRAIN - how can he think that's ok when it's dark by 3pm?

He SHOULD be dropping her back, like he indicated on his text to her.

So I start texting saying whoah mate, this isn't what we agreed, it's not safe, she gets travel anxiety (you wouldn't know that but she does) and do you care that she's just messaged me in tears in her room because she's being coerced into taking the train (because you you lazy bastard can't be arsed to drive her back)? He doesn't reply, doesn't reply. I phone him, it goes to voicemail.

In the background he's coming up with a totally fucking convoluted hair-brained scheme to send her older brother with her (purely as a chaperone) and I'm told oh yes DS is coming back with her as well - WHAT?!!! Now don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely delighted to see him - I love him to bits BUT: 1. I'm in the middle of completely redecorating his room and he has no mattress no lamps no bedside table, nothing 2. I also have a family and what am I supposed to do now, cancel my plans to go up to see them because of course if I still go instead of staying at home to welcome my much loved but totally unexpected guest, I'm the evil bitch mom who 'hates her son'!

I mean, he's using his son to travel with DD for two reasons and two reasons only - one fake reason that it was too expensive to drive up which is bollocks, it's much more expensive by train but much more so the real reason is because he is so under the thumb of his effing wife that he is literally scared to make a journey or leave the house without her express permission!! So they got me to drive down there all those miles yesterday on the understanding they would drop her back (which was the only reason I could contemplate 4 hours of driving and putting all those miles on my car). And they clearly had no intention of anyone bringing her back.

Apparently he says to DD 'he can't afford to bring her back in the car as he's been out of work' - yeah, you've been out of work during which time you've not had to pay a penny in CM and during which I've not received a penny in CM but have had all the same costs and outgoings as I ever have. He's so fucking dishonest with her when he makes these excuses it makes my blood boil. Weak men - I swear to God, they are the worst because they have no backbone, no gumption, no fucking sense of what is right and wrong, fair and unfair.

Just so fucking fed up of having to deal with this utter bellend who's terrified of pissing off his wife or ever standing up for his own DD. Utter utter wanker.

And then it's difficult because I don't want to stress DD about by going off on one so I can't vent to her albeit she knows, she says well Step'mum' is still working, you've only got one salary Mum so I don't see how they can have no money - she gets it anyway. The pathetic twat ignoring texts is just the icing on the cake - what a stupid little baby who can't make an adult-based arrangement about his own child but has to hide and develop stupid idiotic plans in the background that involve all other people putting themselves out instead of him, the father. I have to eat this shit just in order to try and get poor DD to have SOME contact with her pathetic dad who of course she loves and wants to spend time with, and in the course of that repeatedly get treated like absolute dirt in the process, not one jot of respect whatsoever, like at most a chauffeur or a butler or a hotel. He is an absolute cunt and I don't use that word often, or lightly.

Christ, we divorced in 2007 and this shit is STILL going on!

• = trust me, I have had words with her on this and other examples of where she needs to learn to stand up for herself so I'm actively discouraging her current apathy in this area, but that won't change until the penny drops that she is worth it and she deserves to be treated properly and should stand up for herself at such times - that will come in time (soon I hope!!) but it puts her in such an awkward position when it's her dad putting her in that awkward position

Well, rant over. I literally don't even know how I can hope to successfully support her in more regular contact with her dad as we're dealing with totally selfish and intractable thinking and it's not going to improve.

Anyone else had severe Xmas contact/travel issues with their Xs? It can't just be me, I'm sure of it.

Apologies for the length, you probably need a stiff drink to recover, I know I do !

You both as bad as each other. Him being too lazy to take her home, and you pointing that out is beyond cruel.
She is 16, and should be able to travel, and if she had such an issue, isn't it your job to assist she gets over it.

I get your frustration, but telling her to stand up for her self against her dad isn't going to help her at all.

Sadly I don't need to point anything out to her - she knows he's an idiot, but obviously it's her dad and one half of her family who she wants to see. She's fully aware of his shortcomings and points them out to me more often than not. She's very astute and knows precisely what's what (which makes his behaviour all the more damaging).

I did facilitate her travel so she didn't have to travel on the train, he didn't do his part - the return journey was for him to organise.

I have striven to get her the contact she wants but it's a one way street. There's only so much I can do.

very very sadly whilst you might think it's heartless to tell her that she needs to stick up for herself with regard to her dad unfortunately she will at some point need to learn to advocate for herself so it doesn't become a habit of always doing what other people want even when you know it's what you don't want and that's an important thing she's going to have to learn over time and it's incredibly sad that she may have to exercise that ability with her own father at some point. at no point today have I mentioned that to her at all but I have mentioned her reluctance to advocate for herself in other situations previously at other times and said that I really hope she finds that inner strength at some point because for a young girl in this world you need to be able to do that in order to protect yourself. I thought I'd made it clear that this was something she would need to work on but I'd not spoken to her about this at any point today.

He’s a twat.
She will prob be less inclined to seek his attention in future after this stunt. And that’s prob the best thing that will come out of this.
In future, if he wants to see her, he books a hotel and comes to your town... no idea why he lives so far away in the first place.
Knob.

I know ThatPeskyElf.

DD has just messaged me. The GPs are now verbally berating DDs cousin who is crying and v distressed. DD upset at hearing that.

I mean, he's so scared of his wife that he's sending his son on a completely unnecessary 3 train return (making 6 trains altogether) trip that he had no plans to make to keep things sweet with his mrs! I mean how pathetic is that.

He won't come though that's just the problem. I could support some contact if he'll meet half way, maybe monthly, but after this debacle it looks like if it's to do with collecting his DD, he's not allowed to leave the building! If you can even believe that, it's beyond pathetic.

She messaged me again and said "These people are not my family". She's like a square peg in a round hole when she's there, they don't get her, they don't know her at all.

We're this far apart as after divorce I couldn't afford a house in the original town - I had to move northwards to be able to afford the house and so always met half way for over 8 years of consistent EOW contact, as did he to be fair. But when they had their own child together, of course that's when everything changed and he appears to be under house arrest now.

Well he made his bed and doesn’t it sound wonderful... not.

Get your dd home, just drive to get her, she needs you. Sod him, the only person that loses is your DD if you don’t repent and go to collect her. Get a takeaway when you get home and loads of ice cream.
Chalk it up to experience and move on happy in the knowledge that he is unhappy.

Repent? Stupid phone, I think I meant relent

Honestly my thoughts when reading This...
Go and collect her
Don't facilitate contact she is old enough to make her mind up.
I would have had a plan B if you are aware of what he is like.
Your DD is well aware of both of your Achilles heels. I wouldn't be constantly texting. She does need to stand up for herself but giving you a blow by blow account is helping know one.
You are way too involved.

Isn't there a lot of track work going on this week? Are the necessary trains actually running?

Yup he is a pathetic excuse of a father. No doubt her Andy is wrapped around the fact that her father has more or less dumped her for his new family. Stop facilitating their access that’s his job and spend the time doing nice things with your daughter.

wannabe she DOES make her own mind up! - I only facilitate what SHE tells me she wants, NOT the other way around. I almost pray that she goes NC with the lot of them but at the same time, I totally get that that would be a HUGE decision to make and that she is reluctant to make it and I am NOT going to force her into anything like that, she needs to arrive at that decision herself, if and when she feels it's the right one for her. She said tonight she feels I'm the only one who understands her - that's pretty sad, when you've got a father, a step'mum, grandparents, aunts and uncles and there's only one person you can say that about - so on the strength of that, I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

You could be right, maybe repent is the right word! Sadly, he wouldn't repent at leisure about all of this - he doesn't even know what he's lost if that makes sense. I know wannabe, I'm utterly stupid to have thought that having not seen her for months and months that we could make a simple arrangement for a 3 day visit - and stick to it, you know? And I thought we had such an arrangement in place. I was blindsided when I suddenly started hearing about trains and the like - couldn't believe it. Then when he refuses to text back and sends my call to voicemail, it makes it very difficult to make alternative plans. I then have to play it carefully from the point of view of not getting DD involved with all that silliness since it's outside of her control.

I can't get her now, these recent developments have literally kicked off in the last hour and it's v late at night now - I'm not driving a 4 hour motorway journey right now - there's got to be common sense and fairness for me on this - I only just drove there and back yesterday. DD's getting on the train with her brother 11 am tomorrow, so she'll be back with my after lunch. With regard to the incident with her cousin, we had no inkling that anything so unpleasant was going to occur. Her and her cousin get on really well so hopefully the two of them are hunkered down and supporting each other.

Honestly, if you met this family they're all management or senior accounts, well spoken - but they are one of the most poorly functioning bordering on outright abusive families you'd ever come across.

I don't agree that I'm 'way too involved' - what should I do when she messages me in need of support - tell her to piss off?! if she comes to me for support, she'll always get it - if that's what over involved means then yep, you've got me. Believe me, if I never had to speak text or have any contact with my XH that would be my preference. Due to how he is though, what should be simple and straightforward turns into a bloody drama why either DD or me AND DD get shat on - and I eat a lot of that shit just to keep the contact ticking over as best I can, as her DD's wishes.

Hopefully, all back tomorrow and return to normality and I'm going to have to speak with DD to find out her thoughts, when they've had time to sink in, of how she wants to play things going forward with regard to contact. If the quality of the contact is this crap / damaging I question the value of it but if she wants to go at various times, then I'll obviously support it but sadly I can't drive back and forth there on the regular, that's not a practical solution and is grossly unfair also on me from a time and a cost point of view. But she I think has really understood that she's in amongst a bloody weird family including her father and that it makes her feel crap to be amongst that. What she wants to do about it remains to be seen.

Yes Python it looks like they're back on tomorrow - all trains are showing as running. They definitely weren't earlier in the week for sure.

Hey giggly. We do all sorts of nice things together - she hardly seems him so it's not eating into our time together. Sadly, me not supporting her ie essentially by taking her there and bringing her back every single time will mean that she will have absolutely no contact with her father, grandparents, half sister, cousin ever again. I don't know realistically, after this strange and unexpected turn of events today, that it will ever be possible as he's clearly not able to choose if / when he sees his DD or come and get her, even to the half way point...

Listen i do get it. I have three sons and they alll have a fractious relationship with him. He is an Uber selfish knobjockey. I just remain on call ifp needed - I have had several ' can you come and get me?' Last one from ds2 because he had kicked over a large drink (he is six foot with feet like sideshow bob) and he hadn't cleaned up properly. It ended in a nose to nose confrontation.
Ds3 has asd and Ex thinks this can be 'overcome' by making attend parties until late and do the opposite of what he feels able to.nnbh He generally returns with no nails through anxiety.

So I do get it.
Advise her- as emotionlessly as possible and not giving 'you and dad related antggx

3' n j

Sorry I nodded off hence the strange ending :/
I wish you all the best but you do need to Step Back and allow her to deal with this.

Thank you wannabe. I am going to I promise you.

I must say I enjoyed reading your post especially the expletives.lol. I find it helps to say similar things even if just in my own head because some parents behaviour just beggers believe. Please let us know how it went today.

thanks western that made me laugh!! Which I sorely needed.

Following the verbal berating of a very distressed cousin last night, this morning got even weirder when DD informed me that her cousin had been taken to the GPs to be 'put on antidepressants' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the grandparents.

I mean, if we're looking for abusive, that's it right there. She's 16 so entirely able to make her own mind up whether she wants to go on anti-depressants or not. I'm sure it's more her stupid dad (my XH brother, he's a twat too) breaking up with a really good woman who the cousin got on well with, moving house and how him moving in a new woman which cousin isn't so keen on so much so that she sought refuge by temporarily going and living with the grandparents in their house. That's worked out well for her then.

DD said to me she's not sure if she should go down as bad stuff or weird stuff always happens when she does - no shit. I think things with this family have moved on at a pace in the many months of the most sporadic only contact... i feel they're imploding and their weirdness, and abusiveness, is laid bare now. After grandpa had finished shouting at a sobbing cousin, grandma came upstairs to my DD to ask how much she'd heard... unpleasant conditions that I don't want my daughter in. It's out and out abuse, there's no other word for it. I used to think they were a normal family - how wrong can you be.

Maybe in the very first months of being with my now XH, his dad trying to strangle him (I mean, actually trying to throttle him) should possibly have been a clue........?! Oh and his dad being an unpleasant nasty drunk? How I laugh about it now (not). Weird, weird people.

I take your point, but I travelled to Vancouver, Canada alone at 15! Yes he should've driven her back as trains will be packed by anyone's standards at this time of year.

However, wrapping her in cotton wool will NOT help her deal with her anxiety. I was living alone at 16. Whilst this is NOT expected of a 16yr old and I absolutely would not recommend it, I'm mentioning it purely to point out that at 16, a certain level of independence is expected. If you do everything for her, she will always be reliant on you

Well, the good news is that DD is 16 and you have (at most) two years more of this shit. She is becoming a young adult and she will go in to form her own relationships, lifestyle and decisions. If she decides to see her dad, the access will be on her terms, as will meeting up after 18. I suspect it's going to sporodic at best.

It's clear that assuming an arrangement has been made is not good enough.
When Ex says "We will get DD home." or anything else that needs to be properly organised, you have to ask "How will that happen?" or say "You know she's really nervous about trains?" or whatever is relevant.
You and she need to get the arrangement nailed down before you agree to it.

Wow! That lot sound gruesome. Poor DD & cousin.

TheABC she already has. She rarely sees her dad. This was almost a 'one-off' as I said. We've gone past sporadic to almost non existent already. She ONLY goes there when SHE says she wants to and has not had regular contact for several years. If she doesn't want to go she doesn't go, if she does want to go, she goes. However on recent happenings and think she seriously needs to think if she wants to be exposed to this or not - but that's her decision.

Grandma I think all of this after the unprecedented events of the last couple of days, has already made her seriously question going there again. Clearly there will be no joint travel arrangements which involve XH actually driving her anywhere - that much is now clear. Prior to this incident, XH had always been reliable with travel arrangements so it was a surprise that he failed to partake so monumentally this time. It wasn't true to form - clearly as I've said/realised, things have moved on in some significant ways in recent times.

Mummy I take your points and the assumption that DD doesn't get put on a train ever or that she's babied and never travels by any form of public transport - it's not the case, that's an assumption. You can't be snatched by a nutter on a plan, but you can when crossing through three trains and two changes - so for this reason I wasn't happy with that solution and not least since she has severe travel anxiety. It can't be magicked away - it's something she'll have to work on. In this incidence though, the fact that she was being made to travel by train, no one down there was listening to her express her concerns |(or when she did they ignored them as per usual) added to her stress - and I wouldn't want anyone getting on any form of public transport if they were in that state. That's not wrapping someone in cotton wool, it's listening to their expressed needs and concerns. Which her dad and GPs never do... Pointing out, I do not 'do everything for her' whatever you may think.

*snatched by a nutter when you're on a plane that should read!

Dear Cousin is now on antidepressants - whether she wants to be or not.

@DointItForTheKids Of course you can! My flight to Vancouver consisted of two changes. One of which was Heathrow Airport terminal 2 to 5. That was a long walk!!! Then I had to change at Amsterdam!

Worrying about her being 'snatched' at 16 is probably where her anxiety is coming from!!!

Oh stop putting words into my mouth Mummy! It's a reasonable consideration for anyone with someone young travelling on their own - whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, the possibility exists but coupled with travel anxiety and anxiety in general (which you studiously keep ignoring) it wasn't a good choice - for her.

The anxiety she has developed has come from the shit way her family (XHs side) have treated her over the years, shredding her self esteem and making her feel crap - it has NOT come from me).