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Disagreeing over contact, getting messy

68 replies

PepperAndPops · 27/06/2018 21:16

Kids are 9 and 10. Split when they were 1 and 2. For most of their lives Dad wasn't really part of it much, would come in and out as and when he wanted, sometimes going 6 months or so between making contact, even though he lives very local to us and drives.

The past 18 months he has been living with a girlfriend and had a baby with her. She wanted to involve the kids so has been seeing them regularly for the past 18 months ish. Although it's been very hit and miss, broken arrangements (on their side), not caring for them properly (example: he had them Sunday night and sent them off on their school trip on Monday with no suncream or hats or water - it was extremely hot here).

DD2 has SEN and he hasn't turned up to important meetings and appointments, despite them specifically requesting his input (as part of ASD assessments). Even though he has been unemployed for the best part of a year now.

Never paid maintenance, had over £10k arrears through child maintenance service and god knows how much it would be if you added up stuff from before we went through them etc.

Generally been a bit useless tbh. They have a 2 bed flat, with their baby and her son (also SEN). So my kids sleep in the living room on blow up beds when they are there. This is ok to an extent but they don't have anywhere near enough sleep and come home exhausted and miserable. They don't do homework there, bath their, do reading or generally anything useful, they allow them to play out unsupervised which they know I'm not comfortable with, let them watch stuff they shouldn't (not too awful but stuff I wouldn't consider entirely appropriate, mainly due to them sleeping in the living room they are watching what the adults are watching), they make constant promises that they don't keep, the biggest one lately was telling them they were taking them to Disneyland, then deciding they couldn't afford it. Then promised them a UK holiday, and never got round to organising it so went for nothing instead 🙄 - honestly who does this?!

Anyway, loads and loads more issues but I'm aware the post is getting long.

His girlfriend messaged me yesterday out of the blue to say they want them Fri-Mon every other weekend. And that it's that or nothing. If I say no, they will take it to court and get it. And won't be seeing the kids until they have a court order in place.

It's all kicked off now and looks like it will be going to court. They have never mentioned being unhappy with arrangements before and literally won't discuss anything with me. I've made several other suggestions for arrangements but they say it's their way or nothing.

They have clubs or commitments most weekdays and it's a bit chaotic. I have 2 younger children also with SEN so I don't really get any quality time with them during the week. At the weekend I have respite for my most disabled son and we tend to have good quality time together, but also to get homework done etc. Having a big family, there is often some sort of birthday or whatever going on as well.

Will the courts be likely to grant them what they are demanding? I realised after we spoke what the reason is - it's just over the requirements for "shared care" meaning he won't need to pay as much maintenance. Which is what he did before by having them one night during the week (while they were mostly at a club that I fund) but now doesn't do that.

OP posts:
Wetwashing00 · 29/06/2018 09:15

Let them take it further.
First of all most courts will not see a case until mediation has been attempted.
Mediation helps both sides see what is best for the children.

I have had similar problems over the past 8 years. My DD is almost 10 and for the past 3 years she has been going EOW. The only issue I get with this now is when he wants to swap weekends to fit around his social life.
I stopped during the week contact as homework/reading wasn’t being done, no suncream/hats or water on hot days and a lot of late admissions.
My ex’s girlfriend had been a great stepmom for 5 years, doing all the usual stuff a mum does but with no support from my ex so she got annoyed with it.
Last year she broke up with him and has stopped the usual caring for her she used to do. I kind of understood her reasoning as he treated her terribly in regards to looking after our DD, he would bugger off out for 2 of the nights and would only spend 1 day with her out of the whole weekend.
He has never paid maintence either and said he never will despite having arrears with the CMS.

PepperAndPops · 29/06/2018 09:22

Does anybody know if the girlfriend will be at mediation? I assume she will be allowed to (and would definitely choose to as it's her that wants all this). But it will then be a bit "2 against 1" in playground terms I know but it's not very equal and I'm not the most confident person (where as we regularly see her out in her car shouting and swearing at people outside the school with her road rage so it's clearly more natural to her!)

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Wetwashing00 · 29/06/2018 10:10

I doubt she would be allowed, mediation is between the parents. She has no right to dictate any contact, she can coach him on what to say though.
You can specify prior to the meeting that you do not wish her to be involved.
But if she is going to be the primary carer whilst your kids are with her it may be beneficial to have her present. Since she seems to be calling the shots, let her get knocked down by the mediators.

Starlight345 · 29/06/2018 10:53

Firstly this really annoys me that nrp can walk away from their kids then start making demands.

I don’t understand why this is about maintenance if he is unemployed? He will only be paying up to £7 a week.

You need all conversation in text or email but remember they are also looking for stuff to use against you so holding the higher moral ground is important here.

Also document every time they cancel contact and reason given .

I also do think get legal advice here.

Starlight345 · 29/06/2018 10:54

Meant to add I was asked if I would have mil at mediation . She used to supervise ex . I said no so that was that.

PepperAndPops · 29/06/2018 11:44

Thank you.

He has been unemployed for about a year with a few jobs that lasted a couple of weeks in between, never long enough for maintenance to be collected. He was at one point paying £7 a week but once he started having them one weeknight that was taken alway.

He has now started full time employment and had said that he had informed CMS immediately but of course that was a lie and he didn't. I have told them but as I obviously don't know the details it will take a long time.

He has spent all of his adult life in and out of employment and tends to leave as soon as a deduction of earnings is set up, hence the £10,000 of arrears.

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Starlight345 · 29/06/2018 11:54

this type of dad makes me crazy...

Yes the timing does seem to make more sense but as he has arreas that surely should be paid now he is in employment.

PepperAndPops · 29/06/2018 12:28

The thing is, he now lives with the girlfriend and has a baby together so would this make her "entitled" to be at the mediation?

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Wallywobbles · 29/06/2018 12:50

No. She still not their parent.

Doyoumind · 29/06/2018 14:18

The girlfriend won't be at mediation. She has nothing to do with this even if she wants a say.

My advice would be that if mediation doesn't prove to be constructive don't waste your money persevering and just let it go to court. Agreements made in mediation aren't binding and if he's stubborn you won't get anywhere.

The mediator will want you to carry on because they are getting money from it.

PepperAndPops · 29/06/2018 17:53

Ok great. I'm surprised she won't be allowed at mediation as it's her home (council flat). But it's good for me if she can't be.

Who pays for mediation?

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Wetwashing00 · 29/06/2018 18:43

First session is usually free,
If you’re not working I think you can get a heavy discount.
I thought both parents paid but I can’t remember... my ex didn’t turn up to the second meeting.

Doyoumind · 29/06/2018 20:12

I paid for everything including the first meeting and it was very expensive. Ex also had to pay. They make good money.

I think there are good mediators and bad mediators. See if you can get any recommendations if you go down that route.

PepperAndPops · 29/06/2018 23:53

Does the fact that they are the ones insisting on all this make a difference payment wise? I'm rather tight on funds.

They literally just had to ask and they could have had more access to the kids but they didn't. They have not bothered to see them on a weekend for about 3/4 months or even ask to see them on any day other than their one weeknight.

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Doyoumind · 30/06/2018 01:42

No. It was my ex's idea to go to mediation and to court. I had to spend thousands on it. All my ex got out of it was the pleasure of putting me through it. He didn't get more contact.

PepperAndPops · 30/06/2018 08:36

Gosh. I don't have hundreds let alone thousands. I think their plan is to do a session of mediation because they have to in order to get to court. I don't think they actually plan to sort anything out in mediation. They have made it clear they made up their minds what they want and they won't be budging on it.

Am I correct in thinking that if it's EOWeekend then I will have to stick with it but there's nothing to make them stick with it? As they didn't stick with once a month weekends so don't see how they are going to have them eow. I think it's going to be me having the hassle of keeping those weekends free, and then me dealing with the upset when they don't stick to it. I have 2 other children and would have therefore made plans around it.

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Petrolismygas · 30/06/2018 08:44

Go to court. Do they realise how much it costs?
Even if you do end up there it'll take ages before the case gets heard and in that time, the kids are getting older (nearer secondary school age, so will have more of an opinion) and you'll have time to get all those "we have to cancel texts and emails" ready.
Try to make a timeline, proving sporadic contact.

RandomMess · 30/06/2018 09:00

At mediation I would be "yes that's alll fine BUT you need to build up to it due to you having stopped seeing them and sporadic previous contact. Every Wednesday for tea and EOW Friday night to start with for 3 months?

They will look ridiculous for refusing and go against them in court.

Blankscreen · 30/06/2018 09:11

I don't think it sunreasonable for their dad to want to see them at weekends and for him to have some quality time with them. I don't think activities and family birthdays are more important than spending time.e with their dad and their sibling.

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like that there is great parenting going on but he is their dad and whilst he's in his care it's up to him because he is, their dad.

They're not going for 50/50 every other weekend is pretty normal.

They are dicks for saying the contact stops and it won't do them any favours.

It's the summer holidays coming up so could you maybe trial it over the summer to see how it work out?

Starlight345 · 30/06/2018 09:26

I would also do what random suggested. It shows you are willing for contact to happen but want some consistency for the children .

You can self represent in court. Due to legal aid cuts there are far more used to be.

PepperAndPops · 30/06/2018 17:32

Thanks. I agree it's not unreasonable for him to see them at weekends, but I just think that if they can't stick to their previous agreement of one weekend a month then I don't see why it should be increased. Every time they cancel it's upsetting for the children, both the ones we are talk about and also my other children and then I get stressed out and it messes up our weekend. Obviously we all have to change things sometimes but when he rarely bothers at the weekend it's just hard work all round.

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PepperAndPops · 30/06/2018 17:49

And they didn't even attempt to talk like adults and make an arrangement that works for both parties and the children.

As far as I was aware all was fine until I got a message last week to say: we won't be doing Wednesdays anymore, we will be having them fri-Monday every other weekend starting next weekend (my sons birthday). Not even a question it was literally a demand. When I asked if we could discuss this they said "no it's that or nothing".

They hadn't once mentioned before this about wanting more weekend contact, and haven't been using their monthly weekend for months anyway so it doesn't make any sense

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Doyoumind · 30/06/2018 19:07

They don't get to make the rules. Don't let them get to you. They can rant all they want. The only way they can change things is by showing commitment and getting a court order (for which they would have to prove they are working in the DC's best interests).

You must frame it that your sole aim is to have a consistent schedule for the DC, for their welfare. If they can't stick to existing arrangements you can't consider looking at changing them, for the sake of DC. That is reasonable.

I do have to point out though that I don't think the court would care one bit about whether or not they put sun cream on etc. I realise how important it is and why you see it as a failure to provide proper care but I think you will find these kind of concerns have no value, speaking from experience.

PepperAndPops · 30/06/2018 20:18

I agree they probably won't want to hear all the details like that but it is frustrating. I had even text on the morning to say that as DD would be on her trip she definitely needs plenty of suncream as they maybe outside for longer periods than usual.

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PepperAndPops · 30/06/2018 22:38

Anybody know how long the wait will be roughly? The longer the better for me to be honest. But guessing it's not a matter of choosing!

OP posts:
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