What do I do now? Ds told me "f&&ok off you c88t"

[greenberet]

I have come over here from relationships - I have been posting on and off re the continual fallout of my divorce from a person I believe to be a grade A narc who seems hellbent on destroying my life and by default that of our kids.

I am documenting events as they happen as some form of record as to how I am effected when I have been told by many that I should be over this that I have a victim mentality and that my kids behaviour is a product of my own doing. Hence the reason I am not posting in relationships - there are a few posters who i feel have hounded me out of that board.

I am not looking for sympathy - I am in a very vulnerable place - I have to get this out of my head otherwise it consumes me - i have a whole library of books on narcs, I have read the Lundy book - last night I came across the SIPP info from cafcass which I have read. If I have done my kids harm in any way when all I have tried to do is the best for them then I will get my karma this I also believe ( I am blubbing now) I have been angry I am still angry by the way I have been treated not only by the x but by my legal team who I feel let me down severely and took advantage of my Mental health.

The outcome of my divorce was nowhere near what I was led to believe would be achieved even below the worst offer made to me by x as I was persuaded to keep going under the guise that I would get joint lives spousal. My back history is on here if anyone is interested.

I have come on here today triggered by my Ds telling me to "fuck off you cunt" the kids have been with their DF last week or so I thought - there is a communication issue that I have been trying to address for months.

The x does not communicate with me at all unless he is looking to achieve something - over contact, over school issues over finances, the kids are soon to be 17 but they have both had difficulties as a result of divorce especially my Ds - again all on here!

I happened to FaceTime Dd whilst I was away - a spur of moment decision as normally we message. I asked to speak to Ds but was told he wasn't at DF,s he had come home. Last time I was away this had happened too - he had had an argument with x and had come home because x would not give him a lift to pick up something that he forgot. Ds has been in a vulnerable place - he has talked about suicide - learning this when I was miles away put me in panic as I had no idea what mood Ds was in - I had to phone the school to check he was in - school are also aware of his vulnerability as he had googled how to kill yourself and it had been picked up by their security checks.

So again I have no idea what is going on - Dd does not want to say anything or be involved I get nothing out of her - Ds is about to get in shower and doesn't want to talk either.

So until I get to speak to them face to face which was last night I am unable to find out what is going on or why.

All I had said to Ds was why did you stay here Thursday and I get the mouthful of abuse - this is not new - again I have documented on here the bad moods I have noticed when kids return from time with the x. I have asked the kids to let me know where they are to tell me their plans to let me know any changes - they think this is not necessary - they think there is something wrong with me for asking - this is all due to how the x behaves towards me - I know this he doesn't give a shit - and if he can ruin the relationship I have with kids he will be gloating I know all this.

But I can't continually take all the disrespect from the kids - I lost it - I told Ds he would lose his membership to a gym he wants - suddenly he is able to communicate with me - but it is a distorted version of what just took place to justify telling me to F off.

My Dd has taken to getting into bed with me when she returns from DF - something she used to do a lot as a child. I have been trying to find out what plans they have over easter I have been asking them what plans their DF has with them over Easter - he has taken to changing the agreed contact time recently without telling me - just telling the kids -and most times they "forget" to tell me. I am not bothered if he sees them to be honest it would have been better if he didn't as no more mind games but no he likes to use them to get at me. The kids don't get this - they are sick to the back teeth of all the shite and the animosity between us - I get this - I fucking get this - I want nothing more than to be able to get on with my own life but I cannot ditch the responsibility I have for the kids despite how it impacts on me. Them forgetting to tell me what's happening impacts on me and sometimes then defaults on them because I am not able to pick them up, drop them here or do other things they want to me to.

All this continually drains me and has affected my mental health.

Just as I am reeling from this I get an email from the school -Ds is not doing as well as expected and is being put on a monitoring programme - this impacts on him being able to go into the 2nd year of a levels.

I am extremely concerned about this - I paid Ds fees for him to remain at the school as his DF claimed he could no longer afford too - this is bollocks - the Ds was extremely distraught the week before term started and I was concerned for his MH if he did not stay. I have paid for this out of my housing allocation.

We have recently been having talks about what happens after a levels. Both kids are aware that my financial situation is not as it should have been - I am renting the former home which was rent free but I am now having to pay market rates - I am trying to keep them as things were before the divorce - but it is a huge struggle especially as I have an ongoing battle with x over maintenance - he is now taking me to CMS tribunal as foes not agree with what CMS have told him he needs to pay. He has his own company so very easy for him to manipulate figures as he did throughout divorce process.

I have told kids I need this money to stay here -as it is if planning permission is granted on field behind we have to be out within 2 months. What happens if this happens who the fuck knows - I'm living on a wish or head buried in sand as I cannot deal with this.

I am having to move 200 miles away to be able to maximise my settlement and make it work for me - kids do not want to move to back of beyond - I am trying to find out how I can get them financial support at 18 as all my benefits will end at this point and I am not sure how I will be able to support myself and/ or them. I have posts on here asking about how they take their DF to court for maintenance - they have to do this before they reach 18 in just over a year!

I should not be having to do this - the x has now bought a house with Ow the company that they both work for must have recovered to enable this - as I said it would - x is also renting a house here so he has somewhere local for his contact time with kids - spending the rest of the time in Sheffield.

The kids are aware of all this -is any if this likely to be the reason why DS had gone off the boil at school - personally I bloody expect so - the kids have had no peace during the last four years just one blow after another.

I believe in telling them the truth- I do not believe you can "protect" kids - they pick up on the vibes regardless of what you say - they have seen me go from someone who was fairly calm and in control to someone who is angry, struggling to function most days - the house that was once pretty near to a showhome is a bloody mess with stuff all over the place - I am a mess more often than not - but I have done all this for them. I fear I have fucked up - I fear by telling them that their DF' s behaviour is not right - that it is emotionally and financially abusive that I have alienated them - I have done this because until my marriage broke down I did not know it was abusive - all the things I tolerated I know now are red flags - I was in a cafe at the weekend I heard a DF say to his Ds - your behaviour is not right - we don't know what to do with you anymore we may have to send you away - the boy maybe 8 - he was crying - it stopped me in my tracks because this was my X's attitude to Ds - the DF was talking loud enough for others to hear - he was humiliating his son - I wanted to say something but I couldn't - I should have said something to my X all those years ago but I didn't - I did not know then what I know now - that this boy's behaviour was a likely result of his own father's behaviour towards him - that it was the father's behaviour that was wrong not the child!

I don't know why I'm saying all this but it helps get it out my head - I am exhausted but no doubt I will have battles to face today! Thanks for reading if you got here

Do your children want contact with their Dad? If your ex took you to court, they'd ask the kids what they wanted. (I ask this because my 17 year old son doesn't see his Dad and even if he took me to court, ds' wishes would be prioritised)

Yes they have contact with him - I am not having a good day today the constant stress of trying to get them to communicate with me is too much - I can't get them to help I'm trying to get stuff on eBay, prepare for car boot sale all they want to do is sit on their phones and do their own thing Dd has told me today she is going to his next week as she doesn't like being around me anymore - I have had enough - I have been in and out of this head space for months - i feel like taking all the kids clutter to his home so he can deal with it - that would empty most of it but i know there is money in it -all I'm asking for is help - I'm still sat here in pjs

Jamie I'm way beyond court - the only possible court hearing could be taking him to court to get maintenance for kids beyond 18 for uni - but how I feel today i am done -I'm not sure why I should put myself through this when I am still seen as the bad person in all this

It’s really hard to work your way through the post.

You do come across as very angry and as a victim. How long have you been separated / divorced? Anger is like a poison you take yourself hoping the other person will die. It does you no good. Only you can control your feelings and make yourself happy - no one else can do it for us. You need to get help to deal with this, as i’m guessing (?) it’s been going on for some time.

Your divorce settlement - you were given advice and you decided to take it. No one forced you. What’s done is done, you have to move on. You took the decision and you didn’t get what you wanted. Instead to get to be independent - why would you want lifetime spousal maintenance (and to be kept by your EH)? If your kids are 17 you are still young enough to support yourself.

Why are you still in the FMH - paying rent and trying to ‘keep things as they are’. Things have moved on, they aren’t the same. Can you downsize and live within your means?

With regards to your child sweating at you. That’s unacceptable - your the parent, you need to set the boundaries for your home.

Your kids are 17 (?). No reason for the EH to be contacting you. The kids are old enough to decide contact. No need to go to court (and contact arrangements only go until 18).

Maintenance - is your EH paying the right amount? If not, go through the CMS.

Remember you can’t control your EH, you can only control how you react and how you feel. He may have been awrful to you, but you aren’t together anymore. You have to move on. No one else makes you happy - you need to do this yourself.

Really sorry greenberet to hear about all of this.

Northernspirit - I feel that some of your comments are a little harsh, especially about the divorce settlement. Its perfectly reasonable for greenberet to have followed the advice of her legal team. That is surely the whole point of getting legal advice?!

Also its not always as simple as going to the CMS to get the right amount of CM. If only it were that simple!!!

Northern I'm not going to answer your questions - if you are interested my back story is on MN - it's obvious you haven't even read my thread as how do you think I get to CMS tribunal,- I should have got contact rubber stamped by court when x was threatening me with this as it would currently save me a whole load of hassle

Kulakarma - thank you for understanding

I’ve just read some of your other posts.

They are in the same vain and this has been going on 4.5 years.

No one deserves a living. If you want something you have to go out and earn it. Sorry, don’t believe in spousal maintenance - women have all the opportunities men do now. Why would you want to be in the pocket of a man you are no longer with. I personally couldn’t take spousal maintenance off my EX. I’d rather stand on my own 2 feet and clean toilets than take a penny off him.

CMS - you think your husband isn’t paying the right amount. You’ve disputed it and your dispute wasn’t upheld (?). Then the only option is to appeal to your EH’s good nature. However..... based on the fact that your every post contains foul language and expletives about your EH that probably isn’t an option for you. Sometimes life is unfair and we have to accept it and move on.

You really do sound like you need some help (having read some of your other posts). This has been going on for over 4 years and your anger and bitterness is consuming you.

Good luck.

You need to change focus now, because you have to make the choice to move on. It's really hard, but, in the gentlest possible way, you are the only one who can make things better now. Your ex won't change. Let that go.
Be the woman and the mother you want to be. It does sound like your DC are suffering, and that is really not fair. Change for them, even if you don't want to change for you.

Also, please be really careful about guilt-tripping your kids. There are a few sentences in your post that are red flags to me- the fact that you are doing "all this for them", the whole thing about your DS not doing well at school and everything you have to sacrifice to pay his fees.
"I want nothing more than to be able to get on with my own life but I cannot ditch the responsibility I have for the kids"- that is one hell of a burden for your kids to carry. They really have to know that your current situation is not their fault, it's just how things have turned out.
Remember, always, that it is a privilege, not a burden, to raise your children.

Stop referring to him as a 'grade A narc' and stop reading books about it. NPD is an extremely rare disorder which has been bizarrely hijacked by social media and certain authors as a way to make money. Something that clinicians find bizarre.

In the abscence of a concrete formal diagnosis, someone who has been hurt/damaged by someones behaviour just simply cannot (in terms of actual Professional understanding and in terms of objectivity) suggest that the person who has hurt them has NPD.

It is rapidly becoming meaningless and an equivalent of a man saying 'my ex is mental'. Any Police officer/solicitor/social worker who hears 'he's a narc' will probably just roll their eyes. Because it's a Psychiatric term that most people don't understand. And it is being utilised by ex partners to attempt to descredit the other person and justify why courts/Police/SS don't agree with the OP. 'They're a narc and charmed everyone'. Courts/Police/SS don't work on 'charm'. They work on evidence.

I'm a Psychologist and I hear at least once a week 'my Mum/brother/partner/ex is a narc' and it is extremely rare that I would agree in any way.

Your children are almost 17 and this seperation has been going on for four years. If they don't want to keep you informed about contact with their Dad then they're almost 17, nearly adults. If they don't want to talk to you because they're sick of 'the animosity' it may be that you need to look at what is going on from your side.

From their perspective and from what you've said, until your ex had an affair, you were someone who was 'fairly calm and in control to someone who is angry, struggling to function most days - the house that was once pretty near to a showhome is a bloody mess with stuff all over the place - I am a mess more often than not - but I have done all this for them. I fear I have fucked up - I fear by telling them that their DF' s behaviour is not right - that it is emotionally and financially abusive that I have alienated them'.

If none of this was apparent to them or you and you say that - you didn't realise it was 'abusive' till he had an affair then it may be that they saw a functioning marriage till Dad fucked up and had an affair and now Mum says he was emotionally and financially abusive and has a personality disorder. Which wasn't apparent to them or her in at least? 15 years of a relationship till he fucked someone else and now Mum thinks he's X, Y and Z.

Honestly, why don’t you actually listen to people instead of switching boards to post the same stuff?

I know that’s harsh but there is no helping you because you won’t listen

Stop referring to him as a 'grade A narc' and stop reading books about it

I agree with this, is is not at all constructive or helpful to keep reading books about which mental health disorders you have diagnosed your ex with.

It is extremely unlikely that he is a "grade A narc'

You labeling him as this says a lot more about you than about him.

I am very interested in this thread.

So what is a grade A narc?

OP I've just read a lot of your threads from when he first left you in 2014 for someone else. It is so incredibly painful and soul destroying but that was the first time that you started to say he may be a narc or you may have been in an abusive relationship.

You didn't think that till he left for someone else and then you were outraged that he wasn't responding to your attempts at contact in the way you thought he should and 'respected you and your relationship'. You didn't have a relationship any more. He left you. And it is so, so painful.

4 years on with 4 years of support from MN relationships you've left the board because you felt people weren't sympathetic, thought you were in a victim role, you should move on or be 'over it' and you felt 'hounded' off the board.

Relationships is where most people are directed to if getting a hard time on other boards. You've been on there for 4 years and seemingly exhausted people willing to hear about your situation again and see you not listen to advice and not move on.

You're in pain and you're stuck. But he 99.9% certainty doesn't have a PD and probably wouldn't meet other peoples definition of emotional or financial abuse. It hasn't been helpful for you to read a library of books on emotional abuse or NPD because the thruth is probably far more simple (not a rare PD or an abuser that you didn't notice for 15+ years and no-one else has either) but far more painful, he didn't love you enough to not betray and hurt you and leave you for someone else he wanted to be with more.

There's nothing more painful or more damaging to our view of self or the world. Literally nothing. And it's much much easier emotionally to say they were abusers or narcissists (even if you didn't think that till they left) because it's protective of our esteem and our view of the world. It wasn't me - they were just an abuser/narcissist, that's what these people do.

Because it's preferable to our deepest fears 'I wasn't enough. She was more attractive, sexy, clever, funny, whatever'. If he left after 5/10/15/20 years for someone he barely knows then I can't have been enough. What we had must have been a lie. He must have never meant what he said. She must offer what I couldn't.

But that isn't usually the case. It's usually nothing that you did or didn't do. It doesn't mean they were conning you for multiple years (very unlikely to maintain that for years/decades). Doesn't mean what you had wasn't real. Doesn't mean they have a PD that they seem to have changed so much.

You didn't do anything wrong (in most cases). They changed or met someone else and/or changed. It's shit. It doesn't mean a PD or abuse.

Clinging on to the view that he's disordered and trying to destroy your life in some way and he conned solicitors/courts and is now conning your children is what is holding you back and that's what your DC and MN seem to have been saying for years.

So yes, you need to stop seeing yourself as a victim and try to move on.

MrsGrahamNorton

Do you mind to redirect me to where i can find the criteria for financial abuse and narc?

I would say my stbxh is a narc. I want to see if im right. If you dont mind?

You know I'm not sure I can be bothered to reply to these posts - what has happened to MN - it used to be a place of support now it just seems a place to bash women

• northern just because you don't believe in SM doesn't mean we all should adopt this approach - it was a joint decision I give up work because it meant I could manage my depression, we could then have a family and x could focus on his business and build this to be no 1 in the industry this was 20 years

CMS - he's disputing it - he's taking it to tribunal - good nature? Do me a favour

And don't I know it's been going on for 4 years!

Pidlan - when I come on here I am at my wits end -usually after another bashing in whatever form it takes - my kids know none of this is their fault - I also believe in telling them as things are - so they are under no illusion - I am not guilt tripping them they know why I have made decisions and yes it is all about them - fighting for them to get what was planned for them before the x buggered off and ditched his responsibility to his kids

OP you stating posting about this situation in Autum 2014. It’s 4.5 years later. You are going round in circles and when you get a response you don’t like you slag off the poster.

You need to get a grip and get some help. Yes, it’s shit being dumped. But do you know what, sometimes you just need to get on with it as there’s children or people involved who need you.

You’ve spent 4.5 years wallowing in self pity. Get some help and move on.

I wish you luck.

It is a place of support and nobody is bashing anybody.

But you don’t want support. You want people to support your narrative. And that isn’t going to happen because you do need to stop this and move on.

OK OP. Either everyone else is mean and bitchy, or they may have a point. Take a deep breath, and try to think that maybe we are trying to help you. Re-read people's posts.
This has ruined almost 5 years of your life. 5 years! Don't let it ruin the rest.

MrsGrahamNorton - why is it a rare disorder? How does a psychologist differ from a psychiatrist or someone that has specialised in abusive men and their behaviour -what should we call these men ( and some woman) who all follow the same pattern, who get some delight out of trying to emotionally and financially destroy someone they supposedly loved - this is not normal, it is not normal to react to a person as though they are dead after 20 years of marriage - to be completely cold
to a diagnosis of aggressive breast cancer to the mother of your children - to just be interested in the financial payout!

I don't know which courts you've been in but I can tell you my hearing was nothing to do with evidence - my MH supported by doctors letters, psychiatrist letters, my MH nurse attending court with me and a pip payment -all dismissed - maybe depression doesn't exist either - just another term banded about by media is it?

Just for the record it was a counsellor who met us both that came up with this - something that I had come across previously but hadn't made a decision on - she had no need to bring this up - as you say doesn't make any difference to me.

When I'm assuming they are at their father's and I am not at home I would think it was common courtesy to let me know where they are - parental responsibility stops at 18 even though they are nearly 17.

There were lots of issues during the marriage that I thought were 'normal' - based on my parents 'normal' marriage and my inlaws 'normal' marriage - I was often unhappy - wanted to leave at one time - used to write everything down as now but in a moment of what I thought was for the best - destroyed it all - this was my evidence!

I don't know what your qualification gives you but you sound pretty naive to me - lots of people have 'functioning' marriages - if I was being hit and had the bruises would this make it ok - would you believe me then or do you think I'm making this up?

It was not the affair that was the issue - it has been his treatment of me since - I get people make mistakes but to then make the other party out to be someone they are not to save face and come out as the good guy what do you call this

Madmags what you mean is I do not do what you think I should rather than not listen?

I am interested in MH I read books all the time - I will carry on if that's ok with you

Mrs your 2nd post _ actually we did have a relationship - it's called co -parenting except completely impossible when one person chooses not to engage.

If they are exhausted don't respond - I'm not asking them too - why does no one get it that advice is just that advice - I can take it or leave it - you are a psychologist do you not know this? I've just looked up your profession - you deal in MH A thank fuck I never came across you in RL.

He meets Women's aid definition of abuse, my GPS, my counsellors - if I say I am feeling abused not once but 100s of times is it me that has it wrong - if so why have I not been locked away by now because my perception of reality must be way off

It's nothing about loving me - he's not capable of loving anyone - cos you have to love yourself first -and he doesn't - buying flowers, fancy holidays, nice gifts - looks like love doesn't it?

I'm not in pain I'm angry - angry that my legal team didn't listen to what I said he would do, angry that I was taken advantage of when I was vulnerable, angry that my kids are having to do without because their DF is a c&&t.

I wasn't enough? I was more than enough - he had the self esteem issues not me - I don't need my ego fed by a career - as for her - jealous and insecure too - her own DH at the time not a high flyer but a good man - she wanted a better life - x vulnerable his Dm died and in she swooped! Well she did me a favour because I probably would never have left - I took my marriage vows seriously - for better for worse -

I suggest you read the Lundy book - you may learn something! I'm sure at some point in history wasn't the view when women were getting beaten that they must have done something to deserve it or were making it up - you appear to be from this age with your views on E & Fa. The number of women on relationships that have functioning marriages that are actually abusive but they think are normal is a reflection of what a screwed up society we live in

Northern believe me I know this - do you think I make this shit up for a laugh - im not wallowing in self pity I come on here when I feel desperate - post on here or slit my wrists - do you get it know - 4.5 years of constant shite that could have been over 2 years ago if I hadnt got shafted by my legal team.

I am being slagged off all the time because some on here seem to think they know me better than I know myself - so what I have to take it - no way ?

Yes my kids need me - exactly why I am still doing this - no other fucking reason!

Madmags - you don't like my narrative - stay away - I will stop this when I decide - not going to get hounded off a board that I actually thought was here for support - not do as you are told!

No it has not ruined 5 years of my life - it has been a fucking battle - but I have come out of this far more than I ever was - i can't even say the 20 years ruined my life because then I would not have my kids.

the blessing in this hopefully they will know what makes a good relationship - that above all you need to be able to communicate and this means everything - no holding back no secrets, and that if someone tries to take the fucking piss out of you - whether they are a former lover or a professional you do what you can to rectify this and hopefully one day you get your karma!

I get people make mistakes but to then make the other party out to be someone they are not to save face and come out as the good guy what do you call this

Someone who doesn’t give a shit about you. That’s all. Not someone with a PD.

Maybe he does have one, maybe he doesn’t but 99.9% of this is on you because you refuse to disengage.

You’re unbelievable! Nobody is hounding you off anything.

I will bow out because it’s literally the same thing with you over and over and over. And so it will continue until you find away to get over him and get over yourself. The scorned wife thing wears a bit thin after five years is all.

Good luck to anyone who doesn’t know your history and will humour you with this.

I hope you find a way to move on one day.

Greenberet, I've just read all your posts on this thread and clearly your situation is horrific so all I want to do is send you some support

(Autocorrect tried to say, send you some shopping!! Thankfully noticed in time )

Madmags - what are you so mad about - your right he doesn't give a shit about me but he also doesn't give a shit about his kids - that's what I can't get over right now - even more so with the facts behind it - do you know him - do you know he doesn't have a PD - do you know his life history - only I do you see!

I refuse to disengage because I have been told I have to co parent - if I disengage I will be accused of not telling him what is going on with kids - I can't win either way so I do what I feel is least damaging -

That's the trouble - who put a time limit on it - how many years am I allowed - 1, 2, 3, 4 but not five - seems from some threads scorned wives are still not over it 20 years down the line - and you know what I don't blame them because kids are not meant to be pawns - you have kids you face your responsibilities - you don't abuse a system to wriggle your way out of it - and anyone who does this - scum!

When I have made sure my kids are ok to the best of my ability I will be over it - when I have got over myself I'll come back and let you know seeing as you are so concerned about me