Poverty

[Love51]

There has been quite a bit on the news lately about how families are living in poverty and having to use food banks. On the regional TV news there was a segment on lone parent families, including where the parent worked, being in dire straits.
I've often wondered why governments have never enforced payment of child maintenance by the nrp. To my eyes it seems like a vote winner. It wouldn't involve the government giving families money, as the nrp would be paying, yet could move thousands of children out of poverty. Obviously if the lone parent doesn't disclose who the other parent is, or probably if the nrp lives abroad it would be unworkable, but surely in most cases it would help children. So, what am I missing? If payment was enforced, what would be the downside?

If she works minimum wage, then upping her hours to full time will make little difference to her income and mean being away from the kids more, so why would she. I don't blame her.
Is your OH paying for more than child maintenance and kids extras? If so, that needs to stop.

To Northern Spirit

With the exception of wealthy couples it is unlikely that both Partners will have the same lifestyle after separation. Both will have to make adjustments. It would be considered unfair if one partner was forced to live in hardship so that the other could enjoy the same lifestyle as before separation. A point that has been made in Law.

Maybe your OH should only pay what CMS assessed? If ExW is used to getting more maybe that is why they don't want to work more?

@Frequency - my OH has the kids 50% of school holidays, attends parents evening and school events. He would like to have them more but the EW refuses (they have a court ordered contact order). She won’t let the dad speak or see the kids for a minute more than is stated in the order. The mother receives working tax credits so gets 70% if her child care costs paid for. We don’t get any benefits. My OH has to work full time + extra to pay the maintenance.

@Vitology - fair enough if the mum wants to spend more time with the kids. But, if that’s the case she needs to reign in her lifestyle and not expect others to pay for it. My OH pays more than the stated CMS amount plus other stuff because he doesn’t want to see his kids go without. But apparently it’s a ‘pathetic contribution’! We ignore her now, I think she will always be one of those people who take no responsibility for herself.

@Tamatave200 - you’re right. My OH has stated to pull back. For years the kids were used as pawns and weapons - if you don’t give me..... you’re not seeing the kids. The latest ‘requests’ were a lump sum of £3k and a new car. She stopped him seeing the kids for 6 weeks as he refused. He took her to court for breaching the contact order and a judge threatened to take the kids off her and they would live with the dad. As a result he’s got much tougher. 2 weeks ago there was a threat that if he didn’t buy the kids new trainers they wouldn’t be seeing him - he reminded her of what the judge said. He pays her £700 a month (£100 more than the CMS state). My OH said enoughs enough and she’s got to stand in her own 2 feet. They’ve been divorced 5.5 years so she’s had more than enough time to adjust.

My OH has to work full time + extra to pay the maintenance. It's difficult when you've got two families on the go.

When my sister’s ex fucked off abroad the CSA, as it was then, told get they couldn’t do anything to help. This was before we had food banks so she and my DN were dependant on our father. Which was ironic really as he’d thought tooth and nail to avoid paying maintenance when my mother left him

@northernspirit I don’t understand your point?

The thread is questioning how the govt can stop/avoid men from shirking their duties. Your DH is contributing to his kids lives on the basis of a CMS calculator + about 12% extra.

I assume his ex wife feeds and clothes her kids appropriately on the basis of his/your income otherwise he would have tried for custody.

It seems she is making demands for more but that’s irrelevant to this thread as it’s about men who do not provide at all or very little and not men like your DH who provide as determined by the govt?

In short, the point I’m making is her withdrawal of contact, demands for more cash and lack of work is irrelevant to the maintenance he provides.

She sounds batshit btw, I’m not saying her position is reasonable just that this isn’t a relevant whataboutism.

I'm also confused by northernspirits posts. It's not what the thread is about. This post is about parents who don't pay and how they can be made to.

Yes - also sounds like northern’s dh is standing up to his ex, so the situation is improving? Sadly, if you married to someone manipulative and unkind as your dh seems to have done on the first round, divorce isn’t going to improve their behaviour.

As for the main point, we’d need some research about why NRPs don’t pay and why they weren’t pursued - the breakdown of people that aren’t contactable, people that aren’t worth pursuing, people that have been violent etc, self employed people under reporting income, legal costs too high to pursue etc.

I remember that my friend couldn’t even get her ex-dh’s p60 out of him as he ignored several lawyer letters and it cost her too much to keep pursuing him (meanwhile he didn’t pay anything whilst she was questioning his self reported pay).

CMS have direct contact with HMRC and can obtain copies of Tax Returns. However, it is not CMS responsibility to check the accuracy of the Tax Return.

Issue seems to be that some CMS case workers consider only direct salary and payslips. Other forms of income such as; Interest on savings, rent, dividends seem to be overlooked. RP can request CMS to re-assess to take into account such sources of income if they have evidence that such income exists.

This is another obstacle that RP face as they are unable to demand copy of Tax Returns and CMS are not entitled to provide RP with copies of the Tax Returns. Only when an appeal is instigated will the RP be able to see such documents.

If NRP is employed by a UK Company they can request NRP to provide copy of P60. If NRP refuses they can make an assessment based on typical earnings associated with NRP occupation.

Self employed and Ltd Company seem to baffle CMS and those with clever accountants can get away with paying very little. Copies of accounts for Ltd Companies can be obtained from Companies House free of charge from internet, but are often abbreviated accounts that do not detail earnings, dividends, bonus, etc.

Way forward for me seems to be to revert back to the Grounds for Variation that were allowed under CSA which were:

Lifestyle
Assets