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Original poster

Ex has filed a specific issues order to do with schooling-nervous?!

29 replies

ROZ12 · 08/05/2014 20:32

Hi all,

I was worried this would happen.

My ex has parental responsibility and with help of mumsnet, found out that this meant't to inform and consult the other party but decisions can be made independently. BUT apparently I required his legal consent if it's a change of school.

My DD is starting secondary school so technically it isn't a change of school but moving on.

I informed my ex with all the applications a year ago and when results came through I informed him of our choices. We disagreed on school choice, i wanted one and he wanted the other. One was inconvenient for me to take my DD every day and the other is convenient.But most of all my DD like my choice best.

Ex refused to help with fees for his choice of school unless I gave overnight contact on Thursdays. I disagreed with his ways and rejected the school. I informed him the day after acceptance day and informed him I'm accepting the other. I asked him to let me know by a certain date if he agreed with this decision, he never replied therefore i went ahead with accepting the school otherwise I would have been schooless.

He is taking me to court as he claims I didn't get his legal consent for change of school. I thought it was enough that I informed him and consulted him. Also he is wanting overnight contact on a Thursday and saying I didn't consider that teh school is so far that it will eat into his contact time on Thursdays. I feel, that's life High school will naturally mean less time every evening even for me with our DD. But Thursdays nights will be too disruptive during school week and the school is highly academic my DD doesn't want to deal with transporting books and losing books.

Has my ex got a good case-will get told off by the judge??

Also I'm paying fulll fees on my own he isn't contributing-can I get him to pay and mention in court??

Thanks all.

OP posts:

Joules68 · 08/05/2014 20:35

No. Money and contact shouldn't be mixed, courts don't like it.

So really, he opposes the move as it means contact is compromised?

Original poster

ROZ12 · 08/05/2014 20:37

Yes that's right opposing aas he doesn't like school, contact will be compromised and didn't get his legal consent.

BUT I did consult and inform.

OP posts:

Original poster

ROZ12 · 08/05/2014 20:39

Ok I won't mention the fees. But I will mention he blackmailed me and said he will pay if I give overnights.

Also Will I get in trouble not getting legal consent. As the school didn't care less about his consent.

OP posts:

lougle · 08/05/2014 20:41

Consulting and informing isn't the same as getting consent though, is it? And you informed him after it was too late to do anything about it -after the deadline for acceptance. I'd be pretty upset about that.

LadySybilLikesCake · 08/05/2014 20:42

IIRC, you'll have to apply for a variation on the maintenance order (assuming you have one) for help with the fees. You'll also have to show that there's a real need for your child to attend that school as opposed to any other (been here, got the postcard ).

So he's opposing the move but not willing to contribute financially unless you allow contact on Thursday evenings? I can't see this going down well with the court. As Joules says, money and contact shouldn't be mixed.

Hope this helps.

elastamum · 08/05/2014 20:42

How old is your DD? Once she is 12 her views will have to be taken into account. If both you and DD want a particular school and he doesn't he will find it very difficult to get a court to agree that his 'right' to a few hours on Thursday is more important than her choice of secondary school.

Get a good solicitor and tough it out

lougle · 08/05/2014 20:42

It isn't blackmail to negotiate terms. Are you remembering that this is about your DD, not you?

HowardTJMoon · 08/05/2014 20:50

It might be worth getting this confirmed over in the legal section but I don't think you are obliged to gain his consent; you are merely required to consult. If he objects (as he is) then he has the right to request a court's opinion.

At the end of the day the issue comes down to you think your DD should go to one school and he thinks she should go to another. She can't go to both so it will have to be one or the other. By the sound of it your DD spends much more time at your house than his so convenience of transport will likely go a long way. That your DD wants this school is likely to also have an influence.

Regarding the Thursday overnight, does that happen at the moment and the choice of school will interfere or is it something new he wants? If so, does the choice of school make any significant difference?

Original poster

ROZ12 · 08/05/2014 20:55

But as we heard money and contact shouldn't get mixed therefore if he said I will pay if I get Thursday overnights-that is blackmail!!

Also it was my DD's choice of school-she is is 11 years old.

We are all losing evening time due to high school being further than primary school.

I'm not applying for an order for fees I rather pay myself. He should pay out of the goodness of his heart for his DD like I am.

Also I before the acceptance deadline I made a quick phonecall to ex and we had the blackmail conversation so I did consult him and then he said you make a decision as you are not giving overnights and hung up the phone-therefore I did.

I tried my best if had waited any longer I would have lost the school place I gave him few days to reply.

OP posts:

Original poster

ROZ12 · 08/05/2014 21:01

Regarding the Thursday overnights at the moment he has 3-7.15pm. He wants overnight as she will get to his house by 5ish now. I see Thursdays disruptive with homework etc I want is removed. he books will be with me.

He already has Friday to Mondays every other weekend. If I give one more overnight my CS will go down drastically. With no help with fees I need every penny. BUT I also feel it will disrupt my DD's homework. The school will be stressful enough this extra pressure of organisng books and homework for dads is too much on my DD as it is on weekends let aone during school week.

OP posts:

InTheNorth123 · 08/05/2014 22:15

By fees, I take it you mean your DD is going to attend an independent school? If you are worried about CSA payments, then can you ask her dad to contribute to school fees when it goes to court?

Re the overnight contact, it is wrong of him to use finances to blackmail you, but I see no problem with your DD spending one night a week at her dad's. Of course, only you know her and how likely this is to disrupt her. Maybe suggest that you introduce overnight stays in the second term (jan onwards) so she has the Autumn term to settle in to high school?

As far as your ex's case against you goes, I'm pretty sure you didn't really do anything wrong. You asked for his input and he didn't co-operate with you. You had to pick a school before you lost out. I think he is allowed to challenge you in court, based on the fact you're in disagreement about which school to pick. I don't think you'll get in trouble for what you did. I think the courts would be annoyed if parents moved chn to a different school and hid it from the other parent. Like you say, this is moving on rather than changing.

Sorry for the long reply!

HowardTJMoon · 08/05/2014 22:21

Honestly? I think the issue over Thursdays is not going to put you in a great light. She isn't spending a huge amount of time with her father and you're asking for it to be reduced over and above the amount it will necessarily need to reduce due to the longer school hours. I understand your point about homework etc but that is not an insurmountable issue.

If she had gone to the school her father preferred would that have made her seeing him on Thursdays any better? Eg, is his preferred school closer to his house and/or does that school day end earlier?

If I give one more overnight my CS will go down drastically.
See, this is the thing. Contact between your daughter and her father is not something for you to "give" to him and it certainly shouldn't be decided based on how much child support you will or will not get. You are restricting the amount of time that your daughter can spend with her father because it gets you more money to do so; that's just not right.

Original poster

ROZ12 · 08/05/2014 22:35

You have no idea! He works part time and does everything to reduce csa!

Yes school he chose was close to him but im doing the school run.

Im not sure how it can be said Thursday overnight will not be disruptive as you don't know how academic this school add their demands. Books cannot go missing. I dont want to add extra stress to my DD and change to schedule will upset her.

OP posts:

cestlavielife · 08/05/2014 23:01

Why should books get lost ?

Does dd want to spend time with dad? is it easy to get from dad to school on the Friday ?
Why would change to schedule upset her ? (Eg if she has aspergers or something then I can understand the concern... However a new schedule routine can be implemented )

cestlavielife · 08/05/2014 23:03

Is your daughter v academic ?
If the school is already going to be v stressful at age 12 is it the right school for your dd?

sandgrown · 08/05/2014 23:09

Do you think ex is asking for another overnight stay just to reduce his child support payments? Ex should respect DD's preferred school and if he only works part time surely he can pick her up from school?

starlight1234 · 08/05/2014 23:17

what is the court order about? is it about the school or for increased access or both?

If it is about the school then focus on why it is best for your DD.

I do think you need legal advise to get this right or a feel it could go horribly wrong

Original poster

ROZ12 · 08/05/2014 23:33

I can't afford legal advice.

It's About both issues.

It's academic school comes with a lot of pressure which dd can cope with only if we dint get added pressure of having to go to dads extra nights . My dd gets stressed going as it is , packing and unpacking is stressful .

OP posts:

3xcookedchips · 09/05/2014 00:41

He already has Friday to Mondays every other weekend. If I give one more overnight my CS will go down drastically.

Sounds to me finances are driver from preventing the Thursday night.

It wouldn't be you putting undue pressure on your daughter?

EOW plus one over night during the week is the default and for children a lot younger.

purplebearbiscuit · 09/05/2014 06:58

It seems like it might be stressful for your dd but I think everyone involved owes it to her relationship with her dad to give it a go. Children with poor paternal relationships do not have good outcomes, often this is unavoidable but here we have a dad who seems to be interested in a decent amount of contact.

Plenty of teens manage a week night with dad, or more.

I can't understand to be honest why his suggestion of linking money to contact is so wrong, but you are doing the same thing by limiting the Thursdays partly due to money.

HowardTJMoon · 09/05/2014 12:34

Yes school he chose was close to him but im doing the school run.

So, in essence, you chose the school in full knowledge that it would reduce your DD's contact time with her father compared to his choice of school. You are also attempting to limit this contact time even further as you feel that after school contact will now be unworkable. He offered a compromise - he would agree to your choice of school if you agreed to overnight contact which would restore the contact time he was losing - but you refused. You are unwilling to even consider overnight contact on a Thursday at least in part because of the financial implications for you.

On the other hand, the school you chose is one that is closer to you and is the one that DD prefers. Those are both strong points.

It's hard to say how that will pan out in court. I can't say it's likely that the judge would order a change of school (particularly if it's DD's preferred choice) but I'd not like to put money on your argument regarding contact on a Thursday winning out.

3xcookedchips · 09/05/2014 13:32

What Howard says

cestlavielife · 09/05/2014 15:13

if your DD is a typical child then any argument about stress of packing/packing will carry no weight - a typical normal teen should be able to manage two homes; she could have clothes, items at both houses etc. you would need a much stronger argument I think, evidence of DD stress etc. eg referral to CAMHs for anxiety, medication being taken, professional report saying she suffering stress and anxiety due to unpacking a suitcase.... (yes it gets silly but that in effect is what you saying - that she cannot cope... )

presumably she goes for sleepovers with friends?
how does she manage that?

Original poster

ROZ12 · 09/05/2014 20:09

No she doesn't do sleepovers.

I can only pray it all pans out. I just feel if he gets the thursday overnight least the judge can do is make him contribute to fees.

OP posts:

cestlavielife · 09/05/2014 21:08

They won't link finance and contact.

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