arrrggg! ex p reneging on agreed maintenance as a form of control

[pod3030]

So tired of it. EA ex and i split up when dd was 11months, she's 2 and a half now. I have worked hard to be distanced from him as he was very controlling and wore my 'me'ness away. He did some awful psychological mind games on me. A narcissist .
He suddenly wants me to 'go to counselling' with him( he refused when i wanted to in early days of split), and infers i don't deserve the money. He has stopped payments and says he will give me a bit of cash if i have a bill i can't pay.
I know I could go the csa route, but he is very well off and self employed, he can hide his income as a lot is cash.

just fed up with this attempt to get back in control of me and dd as i am not 'doing as i am told'. Plus i am financially counting on it to move further away (we live round the corner from our old family home and it is not ideal)

I was having a lovely life with dd, the relief from no eggshells underfoot was amazing, everything was in full colour again. Bugger.

Such a difficult one as you say Self employed seem to be able to do what they want with CSA..

I don't really have any great ideas but didn't want to read and run as I get exactly what you mean

I think you are right to be cautious - the system is arranged in such a way that most men with a bit of digging can find a way to hide income. Sadly we (single mothers) are just not an important voting group for the politicians to do any big shakes about it.

It is a very familiar story. You need to be prepared to go it alone financially. I knew ex would disappear (OW/ew g.f) and managed to get CSA at full whack for a few months before he did hide it, and at least now he can't just ignore the fact he has a child (although technically he does as doesn't see her at all). I get the minimum possible and he has paid more to the CSA in admin charges than he has ever paid to DD from what I can make out. It has been a disruption as he can't help himself from messing it around (cancelling his DD just to show he can/not responding to the CSA so they have to charge him for chasing him) and every time he does they call me, which drags it all up again. Part of me thinks it isn't worth it for £27 per month. The main thing is that DD gets something, and he is reminded of the fact he has a child he professed to love for 6 months before developing complete amnesia.

There simply isn't any other way with the system. It is a complete risk for you and although you get the security of having CSA knowing where they are, it does seem to make certain types of men go from "I have a lovely DD" fall to the back and the competitive "She's not getting my money" come to the fore. Basically if you man is any type of arsehole this will show now quite clearly.

Good luck.

If I was you I'd try to arrange a paper trail of what he has already paid you in maintenance, I might even attend the 'counselling' for a while and keep a clear record of what he does pay at that time. (Bit only if I thought I could manage it without engaging at all iyswim?)

And after I had 6 months worth I'd tell him to go to fuck and then contact the CSA when if he withdrew the maintenance again.

DD's dad got away with paying fuck all for over 10 years and he's not even self-employed, which makes it even easier to avoid; so if I had my time again I'd get my evidence and proof of his ability to pay all ready beforehand....

Trouble is they can just shack up with anyone else and hide it through them.
As long as the female is naive enough to think "poor man!" they will aid and abet.

I do agree about possible paper trails but perhaps you can call CSA and ask for a list of the things they would need? They are usually relatively helpful as over half of their cases are men hiding assets and I get the idea it really pisses them off that their job becomes to hard because of this.

*so hard

I was just thinking that a deed of variation can be asked for if a self employed NRP pleads he has no money to pay and is assessed as such, and that gathered 'proof' as much as possible could then be used to assist with the case.

Its shocking how a slippery twat of a parent can get a way with absolving all responsibilities.

Deed of variation would be lovely but CSA have been asked to limit how many they put through - I got one when they said they technically knew ex has more than he lets on (it's all over the internet who he actually works for and paid trips abroad etc) but that even wasn't enough. You could call them and try though and I am sure they would advise what paperwork you may need to squirrel away. Short of hiring a private detective though, you probably aren't going to be able to prove what he is earning.

Thankyou so much for your replies. I was having a wobble, i think i knew in my heart of hearts that i would eventually have to go it alone financially as it was the last bastion of control he had over me. On the one hand it'll be a relief. The other of course is i am struggling at the moment, and he lives very well indeed.

Just thought i'd pop in and update- it escalated and i really can't believe it but i had to call police as ex assaulted me on handover.

I was trying to talk calmly about the maintenance, he got very angry and my dd got scared and was crying, he snatched her up and was about to leave, i tried to comfort her and got in his way( and i admit, held on to his coat to stop him) and he slammed me against the wall and continued to push my chest. Lots of words were said on both sides, and i'm not proud of crying in front of my little girl. I'm not proud of any of it.

I was so shocked i dialled 999. They took a statement and advised i go the csa route, they were very kind. I feel so stupid to have risen to it. He kept saying to the officers 'i'm not some little oik you know'.

Sigh. I don't think there's a chance that we will work it out amicably now. I think i was still hoping. But now i must look after myself and dd. I wanted to keep her home as i wanted to comfort her, but it was his day. so am here alone.

Yikes, pod, sorry you went through that. I'm glad you called the police. Hope you're okay.

At least the CSA will put a bit of distance between you and him. I have yet to get any money through CSA, but you never know, I might get a pleasant surprise one of these days. Try to think of it like buying a lottery ticket. Don't expect to win, but there's always the chance you'll get something.

I think it's a good illustration of why it's better never to mention maintenance at handover or any other time within a child's hearing. Not that I'm saying it's your fault - obviously you didn't know your ex would react so violently. The fault is all his. But it's better for a child not to know that maintenance is even an issue.

Thanks biblio - yes,with hindsight i should never have mentioned it. But i don't have other opportunities - it's the only time i see him, he doesn't bother answering my texts/emails. But god, yes it's given me a wake up call. Poor dd.

Please don't blame yourself though - you expected him to behave like a normal human being, which is hardly a crime.

This was not YOUR fault..You DD is entitled to maintenance... It never ceases to amaze me how not only are you expected to raise their child but also then you have to pay for it.

I am glad you called the police.

It wasn't your fault!

Start the CSA case. XP has always paid it through the csa without fail (although he has a normal job) and we never even see him.

And see if the police can refer you to womens aid and a local contact centre so he can see your DD somewhere safe. After that incident he shouldn't (IMO) be seeing his DD willy-nilly. No child should have to deal with that.

I clicked on this chat as i'm due with my first baby and am doing it alone I have no idea how CSA works. I'm sorry to hear about your situation and I hope you and family are okay. The guy I was with has left the country and has not spoke to me for 4months. The only contact is messages on fb?? I asked him if we were negotiating between us about cmaintenance or for me to contact csa, he got very angry and said I couldn't touch him where he is. Its hard to deal with the fact I am doing this alone but that was my choice however I am so scared about money and so angry. its heartbreaking especially for my unborn baby thinking he never wants to see him. I've read alot now about getting hold of cmaintenance off ex partners, its not looking too hopeful and i'm not sure when i contact the csa :-(

Thankyou so much for your replies- i did feel guilty for letting my dd be witness to it, i feel i should have protected her. I've had a look at the women's aid site and got some contacts for local support. x

Ljar If he has gone to live in another country it may be more complicated to negotiate maintenance. I am at the stage where it is a relief to plan my life without factoring his financial contribution. It is much clearer and less stressful. It's scary, but it honestly has enhanced my life rising to the challenges of being a single parent.

Could you talk to citizens advice and start making plans? You will feel much better if you get some of these questions answered and are prepared.

You didn't "let" your dd witness it, he chose to assault you in front of her. Shows what a shit he is. Hope you've recovered from the shock a bit now.

LJAR, it's going to be harder to get money if your ex is overseas. More info on the gov website

I wouldn't do counselling or mediation with him if you think he is a narcissist. All the advice that I have seen on narcissists points to refusing counselling and mediation with them as they will be very adept at influencing the counsellor/ mediator, and will use the sessions as a way of controlling and keeping in touch with you.

My advice with the CSA is to write continual Recorded Delivery letters to them, asking them to respond in writing justifying any decisions that they make. I don't do phone calls with them, as they are inevitably from some -poor sap- member of staff who has just come off the phone from my ex and naively believed his latest story.

FWIW, I've never had any maintenance from my DD's father and we do just fine. I run my own company from home and employ three other single mums (not on purpose, just happened that way). I just want to say you can do it alone financially and survive. I works my nads off but we are comfortable and contented and secure. It can be done if he's going to try and control you through your wallet.

Don't bother with the counselling. Cut all contact with this man other than email re him seeing DD, sort all maintenance via the CSA. Basically, don't waste another second expecting him to behave like a normal human being, because he's a shitbag - cut him out of your life as much as possible and, when you think of him, laugh at what an inadequate tosser he actually is. Best of luck.

I really did not want to go to counselling, and your advice has confirmed my gut feeling- it was another way of playing me. He just 'wants me told'.

queen I am just about to go self employed, on a very small scale at the moment, but i dream of being self sufficient - you're just the inspiration i need :) I want to be a positive role model for dd.

CSA here i come , it looks like.

Yes, go the csa route. At least that way you have something that will be vaguely enforceable.
When he picks up dd, could you have someone there? Or maybe say you need to use a contact centre? Or meet in a public place? Given the assault, you need to limit any contact to the minimum that is absolutely necessary.
It's shitty when you feel like you're getting on with things and then they start playing games again (extensive experience here). Reach down inside yourself and find the strength that is there - then use it to decide you don't need to take any of his shit anymore.
Good luck. It takes a huge amount of courage to deal with this, and people who haven't experienced it really don't understand how emotionally draining it can be.

Thanks mine , next week i said i'd drop her to his and i'll just do doorstep, i never want him in my house again.

Thanks pod. I did contact citizens advice a few weeks back they gave me some websites including gov.uk but there's not much info on there what to do. He is in Ireland and yes the laws are different there. Do I just ring csa? and what do I say? I really would be proud as a single mother who has already been through so much shit you are amazing. I feel as if i'm at the very beginning and things are only going to get worse :-( I think sometimes 'I CAN do it on my own' but then financially why should he be able to pretend we don't exist when it's his responsibility too. I'm really scared though I choose to hide it from my friends and pretend to be strong, I think I will fall apart otherwise. I've only just discovered mumsnet, it helps to read about how women are able to do ANYTHING on our own.

LJAR - just call them and talk it through.