No explanation for lack of contact and no trust

[daisystone]

I wasn't sure if I should put this in relationships of lone parents but I think it is probably more suitable here.

I will try to sum this up as best as I can. It is going around and around in my head and I don't know what to think or do. i apologise for the length.

My husband and I are in the process of divorcing. We separated when my daughter was nearly 8 months old. We were still in love, we had problems though and my husband is not a big one for communicating effectively. He finds it very difficult to say exactly what he wants or means. I have often encouraged him to talk and sometimes he has managed to, but it is almost painful for him to be completely honest.

After the separation he went off 'to get his head together' leaving me alone with no money. I was angry and upset and we argued over the phone and by email. I went to see a solicitor to find out where I stood. They tried contacting him about seeing our daughter and he did not respond to them.

We had to sell our home (there was no equity in it) and my daughter and I moved to a small property alone. He sporadically came and saw her up until April/May 2012. I arranged these meetings and allowed him to come to our house even though there had been some bad behaviour on his part (a relationship with a girl which he denied - said they were friends - I don't think this was true)

In late April/early May 2012 (cannot remember exactly) I drove my daughter (she was 1 year 5 months at this time) over to see him at work. We went to the playground and played. All was ok - we looked to be on the right track. I was still in love with my husband and we had spent the night together a day or so before and he had told me that he loved me.

After that day he did not see her again. I called and texted. He either ignored the calls or said he was too busy and had too much work and could not get away. He is a self employed carpenter.

In August of that year, our house sale was finally going through. He tried to stop the sale of the house by saying that if he did not get the extra money on the property (about £25,000 which was made on the property had to then pay off our unsecured loan with the same mortgage company) he would not agree to the sale finalising. The people buying the property, the estate agent and the company providing the legal services all said to me, do not give him the money. Why would you? He is being unreasonable and you cannot be expected to authorise that money to go to him when you have a joint unsecured loan and you may never see that money again. His reasoning was that he wanted to pay off other debts first and should be allowed to decide which debts were paid first and which were more important. I dug my heels in and finally he relented and allowed the sale of the property to go through and he told me what he thought of me.

I did not hear from him again until Sunday although I have spent a lot of time over the last year and a half trying to contact him. I have left voicemails, texts, emails, I have written cards etc. I had initiated divorce proceeding in April of this year as legal aid was coming to an end and it seemed a case of now or never. I had an address for him but could only assume he was still there. In August I received his own divorce petition through the post and it stated that he was living at a different address. He had not informed me. He was living a 15 minute drive away from us. I went to this address and saw him outside. The shock was immense. I knew he must be living with a woman. There was another car outside the property along with his van. I tried calling him to say that I had received the petition but no answer. I sent a nice card saying I hope you have settled in and giving a few details about our daughter starting nursery. Still nothing from him. My solicitor contacted his. He was going through an on-line divorce solicitor (probably to avoid paying too much) and we heard nothing back from him even though we specifically asked him to set out a proposal of how he envisioned visitations to proceed.

He did not contact her on her third birthday in December. No present and no card. Again at Christmas there was no communication from him.
I am starting a job this coming week in the small town where he lives. I left a message weeks ago to let him know this. I have asked what will happen when we bump into him. He ignores all contact. On Saturday I knocked on his front door knowing he would probably be at work and a woman answered. I was holding my daughters hand and introduced myself and asked if she was my husbands girlfriend. She confirmed this. I shook her hand and explained that I needed to discuss our daughter and outstanding finances and he continually ignored us. She said 'I know he really wants to see X'. I asked whey he would not contact me then. She said she did not know but that she thought he was scared. The next morning I got a call from him. The only time I get a call is when he fears his girlfriend might hear something bad about him.

I asked for an explanation. I said his mother had confirmed his mobile number (she had) and I knew he had got my messages, I said I wanted a landline number before we could begin to discuss visitation as we need to build trust and i need to be assured this is not going to happen again. He kept saying 'I am not going to discuss the past'. No explanation as to why he stopped paying child maintenance for a whole year or why he has avoided the CSA. I think that now he is living with someone he does not want bailiffs on his doorstep (how embarrassing - how would you explain that to the girlfriend?!). He would not discuss our outstanding loan. He asked nothing about how we have coped or managed, financially, emotionally or practically. I said we were getting no where and that I had to get off the phone as I was in a hurry. I emailed him that night to set out reasonable demands: correct contact details, to discuss outstanding debt, to set out a visitation proposal, to explain where and what he had been doing and why he had not seen or looked after his child. I also tried to contact him by text but he did not reply. Last night I received an email saying he was not happy to verbally discuss financial matters with me and will require all concerns to be put in writing so that they may be dealt with fairly and legally. (I have always forwarded official letters when I have had an address for him).

He stated his only reason for calling was to discuss a possibility of starting to see our daughter and to set a time and place for this to take place and not to discuss the past or financial matters. He stated that he thought my criteria was unreasonable (apart from a contact telephone number which you will receive when I start seeing X prior to her leaving your direct supervision) and wrote that if you are not prepared to allow me to see X I have no choice but to apply to the civil courts.

I don't know what to think. He does not respond to solicitors asking him to discuss his daughter and then says he will apply to the courts so that I have no choice. I always wanted him to have a relationship with her but he has destroyed all trust by behaving unreliably, irresponsibly and by putting himself and his social life before the well being of his very young child. I have coped alone. I am so upset and angry that he is behaving in this way.

What do people suggest I do? He seems to not wish to pay the large debt - even half of it, even though he has been earning a decent wage and I have not worked since being pregnant and have been forced onto benefits due to this awful situation. I am starting to earn again next week Thank God!

How do we proceed? I so desperately want my daughter to have a loving father but he is not acting like that. He is still being selfish and putting his own needs first. How do I not feel so upset by the betrayal and abandonment and his neglect? He refuses to explain, presumably because it rakes up the past and makes him feel shameful and he does not like that feeling. He wants to be seen as a good guy. His girlfriend is a teacher - would she not be mortified if she knew that this man avoided the CSA and now only pays the bare minimum and never gets in tough with his little girl etc etc

When did I become the enemy? I have extended the olive branch so many times. Whey won't he communicate with me. I do not trust him with my daughter after everything. I really need some help and advice.

Perhaps he wants to see his daughter without getting into a dialogue with you? Would that be ok?

Perhaps he wants to see his daughter without getting into a dialogue with you? Would that be ok?

Sorry you are going through this with your dd. He wants it his way or nothing at all and is trying to call the shots over you. Tell him that you are fine with going to court as you will both know where you stand with contact and your dd will have a set time and routine of seeing her father.
Sadly he doesn't want it to go to court really, he is playing games with you and probably wont turn up for contact anyway if it is granted.
He is selfish and only interested in himself hence who wants everything on is terms or not at all. Stop contacting him as you cant force him to see dd.
He secretly loves the fact that you are running after him in emails, calls and text and is getting a rise out f no answering them. The olive branch has stopped growing because you don't need to water it anymore,i.e stop feeding his manchild ego and don't engage him other than through a solicitor.

Speak to a family law solicitor and get them to write to him with proposals for contact. This would need to be supervised at present as he is obviously a stranger to your child.

I would give him one final chance to start supporting your daughter but he has proven that he is a shit dad so make this his last chance. He obviously isn't capable of having a reasonable discussion so time to get things formalised.

And do ignore Dark Shite. Very obvious agenda and da menz must be allowed to do what they want regardless of how badly they've treated a child.

That is what I fear though. That it goes to court, he arranges visits and then lets her down. I would want to kill him if he did that. Before, she was too young to understand, but now, it would confuse and upset her so much.

I am currently on the phone trying to sort out outstanding unsecured loan and they won't take his current address from me in order to contact him about it. They say he has to contact them or I am liable on my own even though we are both names parties. One minute we are both liable and the next, as we only have your address we will only be chasing you. Shame on him. He wants me to deal with this as well as everything else. He wants me to pay the debts, look after the child, explain to the child why he is not around.

Why would any other woman want to get involved with this?

But how? How do we even begin to explain to our daughter? Do we just ignore the elephant in the room? He has effectively vanished for most of her life, not paying child maintenance for a large proportion of time only to re-emerge and be living with someone else! He would not have contacted me if I had not discovered his address through the solicitor. Why should I have to shoulder this all on my own? He has responsibilities.
It is so frustrating and sad.
How can he be ok with neglecting her like this?

Tell him to contact you through a solicitor so you can sort it all out properly, chances are you wont hear from him again.

The other women has only been told his side of the story he wants her to hear. He has spun her the "poor me my ex is awful" line.
you have done your upmost to include him in dd life and he ignores your requests. what sort of man/father behaves like that? It is not fair on your dd.

I have said it is not fair on her to him so many times. It never gets a response. I asked does he not feel guilty. Nothing. I feel like writing other woman a letter and detailing what kind of man he is. She should know because i am sure she wants ring on her finger and a couple of kids. Just left a furious message on his voicemail. The unfairness in life. It feels like the 15th Century. Men still doing what they want, swanning off, pretending they do not have responsibilities, pretending that they are not liable. Daughter asked why she did not have a Daddy the other day. I wanted to say "darling you do, but he turned out to be a fucking bastard liar" but of course gave the whole, some people have daddy's and some people don't rubbish. I would like to electrocute his genitals repeatedly.

It seems to me is what you should be doing is separating the issues. Finance and child contact are separate things and its not going to ne helpful to your dtr to merge them. Any fool can goad you along to take the most oppositional course available. Many monet fools will. But I suggest you and your dtr deserve better. What your dtr needs is a dad, what you need is peace of mind
Why not agree something sensible with the suggestion of mediation to agree a parenting plam that gives you both some reassurance.

Because I am so fucking angry I can hardly breathe. So we turn up and sit in a room with a mediator and don't discuss where on earth he has been for the last year and a half. Or why he stopped paying child maintenance or why he left me to deal with creditors on my own when he was working and I was not. I want him to be accountable.

An apology would go a long way.

Yes I get that. I think an apology and acknowledgement of what you've gone through would dissolve most of the blocks. But in the here and now, hand on heart, is your wish for 'justice' taking priority over your dtr? Your ex may be awful but contact is not the way to get validation.

Unfortunately he has never really expressed a desire to see her without me contacting him first. I get a wishy washy "I really want to see her" and all I can think and say is "well why don't you then?"
Had I not become aware of his address via my solicitor and had I not gone round and knocked on his door and had his partner not informed him that I had gone round, I would not have had him calling me up asking for contact. He did not do it off his own back.
It upsets me that it seems to be a game to him. Now he cannot be seen to be an uncaring man to his new girlfriend (a teacher) so he has to play along with the act that he desperately want to see DD and I am not letting him, or rather setting unreasonable demands. I want him to WANT to see her. I fear that he never really will and will simply keep up a pretence for a while. Until he has more children, or until he feels that it is all too much like hard work and not much fun.
If he said to me, "I don't want to see her" at least I would know. I would have more respect for him saying that than this awful pretence. I would still despise him, but I would respect the honesty.
I do not want him to see DD until there are assurances and I don't think mine are unreasonable. Who doesn't supply contact details?? What is he, an international criminal who cannot declare his whereabouts? When you are a parent you supply your contact number and address to whoever needs it and you OBVIOUSLY supply it to the co-parent.

Marking my place so I don't forget to come back later with some words of experience .

He doesn't want to pay off the loan and he doesn't want to pay child maintenance. So he puts off your pursual of these ends (and contact with his dd - which he's not that bothered about really either) by making threats about contact and courts.

He's playing games. Put your anger on one side and get cold and hard headed.

Daisy - Am sorry to read the sadness and anger in your posts. I recognise those feelings because I've shared them in my own break up. We grow thinking the world should be fair, when a loved one acts this way it cuts deep.

I know it runs counter to MN's ethos....but sometimes acceptance of someone's faults and forgiveness has a part to play in moving forward? You loved this man, he loved you. Even if you couldnt make things work as partners it doesnt mean you cant work together as parents.

Perhaps the question to ask is where you want to end up. If you want a permanent cold war with the ex, with court ordered contact and no communication at all. Then a lot of the advise here will get you there. In a couple of years you too can post about the constant war with your ex. But its not the only path. Anger does subside over time. A shared love of a growing child can build bridges. People do change. Your daughter would benefit from seeing her dad. She would be damaged by parental conflict- unfair as it may seem, as a mother you do have a duty to try and minimise that conflict.

Your ex wants to see his child, apparently. You have in the here and now no child welfare reason to block this. What you want is reassurance of a continuing emotional bond. Why not begin the talking, perhaps the shouting at first. Take one step forward at a time. You may have your fears confirmed, but who knows, maybe there's some surprises along the way. Its worth taking that chance.

I am not sure whatever I do will be right. If I leave it I think he won't bother to acknowledge her and will drift off and start another family. She is left with no father. We are left with no answers.
Or, I keep pursuing it. I keep calling him and leaving messages and shaming him into seeing her. Who benefits then? He feels it is a drag, she does not get the real relationship she deserves and is just a burden.
He used to cry and lament about how his father had left his mother and his three brothers when they were small. He could not bear to talk about his father and refused a relationship with him even though the other three brothers tried to let bygones be bygones in adulthood. But no, not my husband, he said how awful he was and how he detested him and then a few years later - he does it himself! Quite incredible.

I just do not know what to do for the best.

I think for your own peace of mind you have to look the truth in the face and make a decision. You say you want contact between your DD and her Dad, but only if he does what you say. What do you get if he does?

Your ex has behaved like a twat. Even if his (apparently minimal) desire to see his daughter forces him to mutter a 'sorry' that he doesn't mean, it will hardly make up for what he has put you through. You say you want contact details - but you know where he lives and have a phone number for him. And is there any explanation about why he has done what he has done that will make you feel better?

So it boils down to the money. Which kind of sounds like you are holding your DD to ransom - if he agrees to discuss finances he gets to see her, if he doesn't, then tough.

If you want them to have a relationship, and all the evidence suggests that generally DC's do better if they do, then organise for her to have one. Ring the g/f and say 'X can pick up DD at 6pm'. If you believe she is better off without, that he doesn't want her, then stop chasing him around and let him take you to court, if you think he has the energy. He'll certainly look like a huge twat in front of his new g/f when you all rock up for the directions hearing and you explain that you have been trying to get him to have contact since he left.

I have a mobile number for him that he does not answer. He seems to be pretending that he does not receive my messages and that I do not have a correct number for him although his mother says that I do indeed have the correct number.. I want a telephone number for his home.

I am in no way going to say pick up dd and take her off. She is three. She would be distressed and I am not leaving her in the care of a selfish idiot who knows nothing about her. He does not have a car seat, he has no idea of who she is or what she likes. I am not confident I would be able to reach him or that he could be relied upon to answer a phone. He is NOT reliable. My trust in him is destroyed. I am not handing over my most precious love to a man who has shown no care and no regard.

We would most likely have to go through a contact centre as I have tried inviting him into my home before and he screwed it all up by stopping contact.

I really don't think he is going to sort the finances. He is going to leave me with them and not provide the company with his address and they will be unable to contact him about the debt. They have told me that they will not write to him at an address that I provide for him. He has to provide the address. So I am liable while he hides away.

I think best to leave it. But if does leave a nasty taste in my mouth. I feel as though he has 'won'. As though he has always wanted to pretend that she does not exist and now he gets what he wants. I have been fighting for everyone to see what a horrible abandoner he is but all I do is upset myself and no one seems to care. The longer no contact goes on, the more I realise that I CAN cope alone although it is very hard. I just find it hard to get my head around the fact that I will be working a few minutes from his house and could easily bump into him on the street. What then? Do I pretend I can't see him? I don't know what to say to my daughter. I feel full of despair that he can get away with this. I feel desperately unhappy for my daughter too. I take his neglect personally. It cuts like a knife that he treats her with so little concern.

He won't have won, he'll have lost. You will have gained a trouble-free life and your dd will grow upmwithout being constantly let down by a dad who doesn't want to see her regularly. That's loss. You and she are better off without.

Blimey, if he's this unreasonable now, do you really want to be dealing with it for another 15 years?

Post in legal/money matters about the debt and how you can get them to pursue him for some of it at least.

I hadn't thought to do that. Thank you.

Now he will probably feel as though he HAS to try to see her now that the girlfriend knows. How would he explain no contact otherwise? She would think it odd if he did not communicate when I have been round to the house.

I feel duped. Duped by a con man. How can you ever trust anyone when you have been lied to like this? It is all words. They say they would die for you and then do this. I will never get over the shock of how he has behaved. I wish he would move to another county rather than be so rude and thoughtless as to stay so close to us.

I think perhaps I stop contacting him, although it is a little too late now. Who knows what he will do. He has been full of hot air for a long time now so it is probably another idle threat. I don't really care if he does go to court. How can he justify his absence, his running from the CSA, his refusal to communicate with me, solicitors, estate agents, creditors etc. He is a nasty piece of work. How was I conned like this? I am not stupid, I honestly do not know how he pulled the wool over my eyes and pretended to be a completely different person.

If you have proof (copies of solicitors meetings / e-mails / texts etc) that you have tried to allow him to have a relationship with her dad over the years then I would just leave it now. Never call him again, just leave the ball in his court. If he wants to go to court then it's up to him, but I bet he doesn't bother.

You can't force him to be a dad, he's a grown up who can presumably get himself to work on time and remember to pay his bills, so if he wants to see his DD then it's up to him to sort it out. He hasn't won, he will look back in years to come and realise what a wanker he was.

I put up with several months of nonsense from my XP, we arranged when he would see the dc's and he let them down endless times, we went to mediation (he was thrown out), I finally arranged a contact centre (he had been abusive) and he e-mailed saying he would never see them until they were 18. That was 5yrs ago and we haven't heard a peep from him since. He also threatened court too, obviously he never did. I can't imagine what a state I'd be in if I'd spent years chasing XP to be a dad, I'd go insane.

I tnk he is also enjoying the be a Dad messages you are sending him and the finances....I would stop...I have always held the belifef that I wouldn't ant my DS with someone who isn't interested....Just because they are related doesn't make him interested...I have read nothing that suggested he is..

Finance go to CSA..give them latest address, see either you sols or CAB about debt

I tnk he is also enjoying the be a Dad messages you are sending him and the finances....I would stop...I have always held the belifef that I wouldn't ant my DS with someone who isn't interested....Just because they are related doesn't make him interested...I have read nothing that suggested he is..

Finance go to CSA..give them latest address, see either you sols or CAB about debt

He will not apologise for his behaviour, and you don't have to bend to his will. You cannot make a man like this be a decent father but you can give him a final opportunity to prove that HE wants to become a good father. If he's serious about rebuilding bridges, then he will respond yo a solicitors letter in a positive way and begin to move forward with contact.