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Original poster

custody, how do they decide?

30 replies

IneedAwittierNickname · 11/12/2013 22:36

Well what the title.says really. How do the courts decide who gets custody of children?

I've just found out that my ex is planning on getting custody by going through ss. He believes he will get it purely because his house is spotless and mine isn't.

But surely there's more that they will consider? Like thefact that I've always been the primary carer, and that I've lived in the same place (alone) for nearly 5 years, thus providing stability. Ex otoh has lived with his dad, then his mum, then his dad again. Then he moved in with a woman he then got engaged to. They split up, he moved back.in with his dad. Then he moved in with his new gf (of a couple of weeks). They were engaged and she was pregnant within 6 weeks.

And if they live with him they will need to change school, which is potentially unsettling (not the end of the world ill admit)

Plus they.don't want to live with him.

I'm just terrified that ill lose my babies :( (who are 9 and 7 so not actually babies)

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HerrenaHarridan · 11/12/2013 23:00

They tend to prefer minimum disruption to the children's lives and will usually only move them if there is actual neglect.

If by not spotless you mean lived in but a couple of work and I would have my mum round then this is simply not an issue.

If by not spotless you mean your house is a health hazard only fixable by fire or Kim and aggie then you do need to sort it out.

If the children are turning up for school, generally on time, in clean school uniform and are happy in themselves then this (ie the schools report) will carry much more weight than your exs hearsay.

Tbh your ex is probably just playing the good dad for the benefit of his new gf ime Sad

MsColour · 11/12/2013 23:01

He won't get full residence if he has never been the main carer. The courts will want to keep your children's lives as stable as possible. No one will care about how tidy his house is - it wouldn't stay like that very long if he had the children living there full time.

Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 11/12/2013 23:08

House is not a health hazard, slightly untidier than 'lived in' but if a friend knocked on the door now I wouldbt be ashamed to let them in as long as they don't go in the bathroom

ms his gf has 2.children and they have a baby together. Mind you, according to.my dc all the others.do is play on the computer, so they never do anything to make a mess.

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Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 11/12/2013 23:09

Sorry, ignore all the random full stops, my phone has a mind of its own sometimes!

And that last bit sounds snippy and its not meant to,.promise :)

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Charcoalbriquettes · 11/12/2013 23:21

If they assess you, they might want to check what the sleeping arrangements are, if you have food in the cupboards, and they might have a chat with your children on their own. They will probably expect you to have tidied up for their visit. But like a pp says, punctuality and good attendance at school, and well turned out kids probably counts for far more than the state of your house when they come round.

Good luck in keeping your family stable.

Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 11/12/2013 23:30

Thanks charcoal.

Dc have their own beds here, they share a room. Clean bedding every week, food in the cupboards. School haven't mentioned any concerns re attendance, punctuality or cleanliness. They have clean clothes every day.

As far as I know, they have air beds at their dads. Sonetimes they share with his step son, sometimes the step daughter, I can't seem to work that out.

He has in the past accused me of not sending them to his with clean clothes, and not feeding them . Neither of these are true, but that will be my word against his.

I've actually got a meeting with ds1s teacher tomorrow, about the emotional problems he is having in relation to his dads treatment of him. Would it be worth me asking then if the school have any concerns?

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Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 11/12/2013 23:32

They have clean clothes every day. well actually they wear trousers and jumpers twice, but that's normal isn't it ?

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HerrenaHarridan · 11/12/2013 23:36

How the kids present at school is far far more important.
Even the worst house can be sorted for an announced visit. How they present at school is ongoing and independent. The school have no reason to lie to back either party up and it's generally obvious to an observant teacher whose patents aren't coping.

From your second post I would say that your house is not an issue.

When I had the ss round they wanted to know 3 things 2 that a pp said

Where does dd sleep. Look in this bed here, on these reasonably clean sheets, no smell of urine. Plenty warm enough.

Plenty of food in the cupboards

And are you planning in letting her dad move in. NO WAY

That's fine, we'll be off but if we have reason to believe your ex has moved in we will reopen the case

And that ladies and gents was the nail in the coffin.

Op sounds like you have nothing to worry about. Besides ill wager he is only saying this to intimidate you into cooperating and impress the new gf

Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 11/12/2013 23:40

If I've previously had ss involved will that make a difference?
Plus I'm currently working with a family support charity?

Sorry just realised that's a massive drip feed, unintentional I.promise. I'm not thinking straight right now.

He's threatened it before, but this time its my family worker he told.

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Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 11/12/2013 23:42

I always co operated with ss btw. Whereas my ex refused to.come to meetings.

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HerrenaHarridan · 11/12/2013 23:51

Previous involvement will go in your favour (unless you mean previous kids taken away)
As will family support workers who would all be asked by the courts to submit character references.

These people have been involved and clearly have not felt the need to further involve ss or perceived any ill treatment of the children so would all be allies.

If it would help set your mind at rest by all means ask his teacher (not in front if him) if she has any concerns about you and your children.
Be honest just say something like " my ex is threatening to take me to court for custody of the children and its making me overly concerned about my parenting, please if you have any concerns do tell me"

To be honest though if they had, they would have!

It sounds to me like your feeling intimidated which is exactly what he wants.
Head up high and let him take you to court (aye right!) you have nothing to worry about.

Yes 2 days for a jumper etc is normal if your kid isn't the kind the comes home bogging not matter what! Grin

Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 12/12/2013 00:00

No never had children taken away.

Basically.my step sister phoned them.as she was concerned about the state of the house, to be honest it was bogging at the time. But I.cleared it up, turned it around.

They were never concerned about the children, just the home if that makes sense. :)

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BlackeyedShepherdswatchsheep · 12/12/2013 00:33

two days is not norrmal for a jumper round here... mine are the exception rather than the rule though. most wear their uniforms more than one day.

HerrenaHarridan · 12/12/2013 00:34

Yes that makes sense.

They assessed you as a fit parent then and presumably you've improved even more since then.

From what you've said here your house is not a problem. The ss aren't interested in your clutter and a spot of dust.

As far as I am aware their first concern would be hygienic ish food prep area ie you should be able to cook dinner without making anyone ill.

Bins should not be overflowing inside or out.

Beds should have sheets on and not be wet ( one of my friends when I was very small used to wet the bed every night. His mum didn't bother to put any sheets on and his mattress was saturated the ss were called on her frequently but sadly her kids weren't ever taken away, poor souls Sad)

The children should not able to access prescription or illegal drugs, knives, power tools etc

Their standards are actually relatively low in terms of what is acceptable.

I

HerrenaHarridan · 12/12/2013 00:35

Especially experienced social workers who will have seen homes you can't even imagine Sad

BillyBanter · 12/12/2013 00:44

You say you are going to speak to the HT about your DC's issues with his dad? Have you been to your GP about this? Or is this on record elsewhere?

Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 12/12/2013 00:48

No I've not been to the gp, didn't think of that. I was hoping school would point me in the right direction. Last year ds1 had weekly.meetings with the pastoral carer at school but he was ok this year, up until the last week or so.
My family worker is aware of the issues too.

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Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 12/12/2013 00:51

The problem is, the sw I had before was concerned about dust and clutter. She expected the house to look like a show room all the time, even when the dc were playing she would ask why there were toys out Confused she was particularly over zealous.

But my house would meet the standard you've said :)

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IneedAsockamnesty · 12/12/2013 01:16

The type of houses they are concerned about would be things like

Animals all over the place and animal poo and urine.

Clutter to the extent that the kids don't have space to move around or play (think not quite as bad as extream hoarders but not far off)

No beds/clean decent bedding or bedrooms where the children have a vastly lower standard of cleanliness or furniture than the parent had (think you have a oak four poster perfect bedding your kids have falling apart beds sleep under smelly towels)

Meds left around and other serious hazards

Toilets that don't work and haven't for ages.

That sort of thing.

Stuff that does not matter a jot are inexpensivly furnished houses (providing there is not a huge difference between your stuff and the kids) battered but nt dangerous furniture, normal household mess that a normal cleaning session would fix.

Is there a reason why you can't just have a mega cleaning blitz as it would remove the worry your having?

One thing to think about is if he makes out your house is like some of the things I've described and they turn up and its nothing like described he's doing you a favour because they will put it down to malice this will obviously be considered on any future allagations he makes and the NFA letter you will get can be used as court evidence should he go down that road.

Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 12/12/2013 01:19

Oh gosh my house is nothing like that sock if anything the dc have better stuff than me!

I'm planning a cleaning blitz anyway, that was my plan this weekend even before I found out about the ex!

I still think I'd worry though, I'm a natural born worrier!

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IneedAsockamnesty · 12/12/2013 01:20

Just read your last post.

There is a big difference between a standard they can express concern about and one that makes a house unsuitable to have a child in it.

But if they have legit concerns they could be used to support concerns about other things

I.e

Presenting issue serious PND reported mum claims nothing's wrong but state of house makes it obvious shes not coping.

IneedAsockamnesty · 12/12/2013 01:23

Stay several steps ahead of him, try to avoid letting him in your house and keep on top of the housework that way you fret less he has no ammo against you and you know nobody can have a legit issue with your house

HerrenaHarridan · 12/12/2013 08:11

I'm sorry your ss workers before made you feel bad unfortunately some people just have to pick fault.

One of my friends had her dd placed on the at risk register from birth because she was taking anti depressants when she fell pregnant.
Once their dd was born they were told they had to do a parenting assessment which basically involved them doing things like nappy/clothes changes and bathing their dd in front of a panel of 5 people Shock
I can't even imagine how they must have felt I was do uncertain at that point.
Anyway their main criticism, written in the official report abs everything was that the dad used too many wipes when changing her bum!

A bit if clutter and dust mentioned in the ss report is not going to persuade a judge your children are in danger!

Unfortunately my experience of social workers is they are either absolute diamonds or fairly unpleasant. They are human after all and that is why they do not have individual power to just take your kids they must submit court reports and persuade a judge your kids are at risk to procure a warrant and police support.

They must first prove that they have tried to support you to keep the children.

By the time a judge had read the schools report of clean, well fed kids who turn up at school anything other than actual harm would be negated.

I know nothing with actually stop you worrying but honestly you don't need to fret.

Original poster
IneedAwittierNickname · 12/12/2013 08:36

Thanks everyone. Oddly enough, I've had a better nights sleep than usual and things are not feeling so bad now that I'm.not so tired! Just hoping todays meeting.is positive! .

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cestlavielife · 12/12/2013 12:14

if your son "the emotional problems he is having in relation to his dads treatment of him" then you ened to got o gp and ask for referral to child psychologist/CAMHs and get this addressed.

use the correct ermonology to SS - its residence not custody

shared residence means the children move betweent the two homes tho not necessarily fifty fifty in time and parents have equel rights/responsibilities .

sole residence means they mostly live with one parent and visit with teh otehr but for specific reasons eg inability of other aprent it's deemed one parent should have sole residence

as they 9 and 7 their wishes and feelings would be taken into account.