Dis-interested mother, switched on father

[SwitchedOnDad]

I find myself in a rather awkward position. I have an ex who is pregnant with my only child, a healthy little boy, and she had decided about 20 weeks in that she didnt want to be a mother anymore and being pregnant was just too much effort. Although i find that most women will at some point feel very low and perhaps regret decisions made, but in her case it was a decision made out of spite and a as a way of maintaining the support i give her on a daily basis. She wanted the baby as a method of getting her own house, as she has been in secure housing provided by the government for many years. I cant believe how bad my judgement of her character was as she has bi-polar disorder and is taking medication for it, something she always neglected to tell me, she has two cases coming up in court for burglary, criminal damage, perverting the course of justice and purgery.

We had lengthy conversations about how she feels and after three weeks we prepared an idea of what we wanted to do and presented it to her social worker, child protection services, our family mid-wife and a mid-wife allocated to us by social services. So I have decided to become a single father to our little man, (I asked her to outline what sort of visitation she wanted, and she requested 6 hours a week over three days) but am facing problems at every junction. Social services, in their infinite wisdom, have decided I am of questionable character because I used to be a photographer and they have gleened this from looking at my facebook of all things. I have various work on there, from weddings, children and families, events, products ..... well you get the idea. But because they have seen a semi-nude woman they have decided Im unable to be a decent father. They also feel that because she wont talk to them and im a very open person, Im bullying her into the decision, which has only been made because of her shallow, insensitive, self-absorbed and ignorant behaviour patterns put me in this position in the first place. She is still self harming too, in a very mild cosmetic fashion, but only when I wont see her for an evening. We've been split up since february but if i say i want time to myself, or that i want to see my friends, she invents some health emergency whichi invariably submit to and end up giving her the attention she wants.

My family wont talk to me anymore, everyone seems to be trying to impress upon me that she would be a far better parent even if she has criminal charges, of which i have none at all, pending court cases, extensive behavioural problems and the motivation of a sloth. Granted a father cannot be both parents effectively, argueably, but I have various qualities and standards which make me someone who can at bare minimum offer consistancy, reliability, unflinching devotion and an abundance of patience.

Im frustrated that the offical health people who are following the case are making no attempt to talk to me directly and even get an idea of who I am based on person experience. I cry daily and am finding it hard to motivate myself through a mild depression, I'm trying to be the best thing that could ever happen to him and salvage some normality from this situation but I have to argue my point without being given the chance to express my self. Im so stuck and I dont know what to do, aside from fight for my right to save him from a life of social services involvement, bad parenting and an uncertain future.

Currently Im preparing myself and my flat for the arrival of my little man, stocking up on consumables, trying not to buy everything that looks cute and lasts two seconds and reading as much as I can - This is such a wonderful site to refer to - and hope that I get the results I want. I dont know what to do to help myself and my little man and any helpful words of recommendations would be so warmly recieved.

Thank you for reading!

Well if you want to hang out here you need to stop calling him a little man - otherwise you might prefer netmums.....

I find it v hard to judge this situation really and I am a SW. I'm
Surprised by the Facebook thing. We avoid making assessments (in my dept) on fb content unless it's a child making overt disclosures or making contact with an offender.

But I don't do pre birth assessments so I don't pretend to know everything.

I assume there has been a child protection conference held re the UBB? What's in the plan?

Did she have a SW anyway - from adult services? You make it sound as though she does but I could be mistaken or is it because she has other children?

Have they crb checked you? That would hold much more weight than this fb thing. You have to be an identified risk with evidence to be ruled out. Might be helpful to collect some character references.

You might have to be a bit pushy re communicating with SW - we are v over worked

Thank you, and I shall avoid refering to him as such.

I too was surprised about the FB thing, there's plenty about me on there and I feel that someone who highlights a very small feature with such vigour may have a reason which is personal.

Im not sure entirely what you mean by a conference, but I'm meeting various people on Monday to be assessed. Shes had a social worker since she was taken into care about 6 years ago, and due to her frequent offending, compulsive lieing and deception, the SW crossed from when she turned 18 in january, and so i dont think shes actually entitled to a SW anymore, but i dont really know, shes never all that clear aboiut whats going on. Since writing this earlier SS have requested my phone number to have a conversation, so ive obtained their number, an 0800 number, and am going to be more pushy as youve suggested.

Theyve not CRB checked me, and are more than welcome to. Ive worked around children at a family photography studio (olan mills) for years and surprisingly had never been asked to do one.

I shall be more pushy and go about preparing character references as suggested. I think that sometimes you SWs get a hard time, my ex-ex-ex was in charge of removing children from families and it sounded like a horrific yet totally admirable thing to do. I think in this case they are reacting to third party info and a woman who has no real idea of whats going on. I cant blame them for working with the information presented to them, as after all Im working against the stigma attached to how males have let females down so much in the past.

Thanks again!

I think it is terrible that you have to go through this to have a right to parent your own child and she does not despite being clearly unfit to parent just because she is the one who carries the child.

I really hope it works out for you and that you get your son, although I fear you will never really get your Ex out of your life and I think she will bring you a world of trouble.

Good Luck

Are they actually making plans to take the child into care when it's born?

If not, then there's nothing more they or you can really do at this stage. Your ex can't formally agree to let you be his main carer until he is born. Whatever she says at this stage, she could change her mind later. So fear you'll have to wait and see what she wants. You should be able to keep up contact and be involved with your son, but your ex could change her mind about not wanting to be a mum when she sees her baby.

@RabidAnchovy: Thank you! I have come to terms with the fact that she'll always be around, and am fearing the day that maybe I'll meet someone who I'd like to build a relationship with. Im sure I'll win, just need to negotiate the fog a little first.

@NatashaBee: Thanks!

@purpleroses: Theyve mentioned signing a - i forget the real term - custody warrent (?), but since my more predominant involvement it seems they've forgotten about that and have decided that she should be involved in his life, regardless of the repercussions of that. Im not willing to accept simple contact with my child as he'll need me so much more than that. I agree, she'll probably change her tune as soon as he's born and I'll have a new set of issues to challenge me. I dont know how could anyone act so detached to a child, she maybe sub-human but she still has warm vein coursing through her veins. So perhaps there's hopoe for her, but is that whats best for marcus?

Thanks for your time and attention!!

Ok I break it down. It makes more sense now you have added she is a care leaver and quite young. She is entitled to supprt up to the age of 25 but it's usually a community care worker post 18.
Ok so you need to find out what's actually happening. If Her care leavers team think the baby is at risk they will have referred to an intake team ( sometimes thru are called advice and assessment) who of they hold concerns will pass the case (the unborn baby is the case not your ex) to a child protection team and it will be allocated a cp SW who will decide if a pre birth assessment is required. Reasons for calling a ore birth are concerns that without supprt/services the baby is at risk. Possible reasons would be mental health/substance use/learning difficulties and so on. A pre birth can take time and would usually involve a professionals meeting to include the midwife, care leavers worker, housing support and often an assigned police officer (sounds likely in this case). These meetings often vote and 'call' the child protection conference which is a more formal meeting which may include the mother and the local authority solicitor. A decision is made at this meeting of a child protection plan is needed - the plan has to include how the mother/baby will be supported/monitored and if they will be accommodated in either supported living/a mother and baby unit etc. things which are monitored during the pregnancy if there are identified risks include engaging with the midwife and ante natal services, attending appointments, home visits and so on.
Your ex may not be subject to any of this - merely still engaged with her care leavers team who may be providing low level supprt and advice.
If there are child protection issues you need to be very clear that you wish to be the main carer or at least considered. Things you would be assessed on would be secure accommodation, a dare environment to look after a baby, financial security (evennid it's just benefits et )and an ability to engage with midwife/health visitor etc. be prepared to have questions asked about your work schedule, partner and what supprt you have locally.

As an aside...what might concern me professionally is how much informed consent your ex has given - I am not accusing you of lying or whatever but willingly giving up your baby is quite drastic especially of there are mental health issues and this might need some intensive assessment.

Meanwhile working for a well known studio that doesn't take dodgy pictures helps a bit

Lastly you arnt going against the grain by wanting to be a male line parent - family is the first option when a child is removed and considered before foster care always. SW is not a sexist practice but we do try hard to keep mothers and babies together unless it's impossible - we know enough from research that this iz the best case sdenario for the child.

Do you really think of her as sub human?

How old are you? Why don't your family want to know you anymore? Calling the soon to be mother of your child a sloth and subhuman doesn't convince me of your ability to parent I'm afraid...... Maybe she'll be a great mum? Who knows - the baby hasn't even born yet.

Subhuman concerns me too. Also be prepared for the fact she may be saying quite different things to professionals about what she wants.

Custody doesn't really exist in British law now there is only 'parental responsibility' which you won't be awarded unless you are present when she registers the birth and names you as the father - if she does.

If you have serious concerns about her ability to parent (and I mean legitimate concerns that are not malicious) then you need to make a list of them with examples and contact ss. It would be useful to know what your take on that is anyway if you want further guidance?

How old are you?
Seriously- social services may have reservations because you're an adult having a relationship with an extremely vulnerable young person. She may be 18, but IME many young people leaving care are immature emotionally, and all are vulnerable.

Have to say I agree with ^^ that bit.

You are posting on mumsnet and calling a seemingly vulnerable young pregnant woman names! That is not on. Also, you cry daily? Maybe you need someone to talk things through with.

How old are you?

I agree with Titchy, sorry.

1. She may change her mind at birth so I think you and SW need to act as if this is an option

1. You split in Feb? 7 months ago? when she was just pregnant. Maybe the enormity of being alone and pregnant has affected her (poor history) and with a bit of support she could change

1. She is obviously young. Can I ask how old you are?

1. FWIW I don't see why a Dad would be excluded from the child's upbringing.

I misread and missed out 'in January'. I take it you are quite a lot older than her. She was 17 (or less) when this relationship started. She is a vulnerable adult. At just 18 and with issues she will still have an active SW. You are a much older, quite controlling ex partner? I'm not surprised they are concerned. I realise you have not withheld info but it's a different picture than what I first read.
What I said about informed consent etc stands though - I don't think she can give it.

I don't think anyone who refers to self-harming as neglible and 'just cosmetic' is helping their own cause, to be honest.

I know you're annoyed with the ex (why, by the way) but saying that sounds awful.

Why do you want the baby?

She has significant mh issues. You cannot presume to get in her head.
It is too early to make final decisions.
Keep in touch with ss, let them know you want to be involved with the baby and wait til it is born.

Nothing wrong with saying little man if you want - ignore them!!

You do come across in your post as slightly "know it all" and a bit pompous. What options are there for his care? I take it your self employed so working around him will be ok?

What options dos SS favour ? Could you not work with the mother & see how things develop?

Rabid -what on earth do you mean "just because she carries the child" _ that is all the job until the baby is born!!! Tbh, he can't prove what a father he will make until the baby is here. Supporting the mother to my mind is important BUT he should not let himself be emotionally blackmailed.

I mean that the mother always has more rights to the baby because she is the one who carries the child, although it is as much the fathers child. It is unfair. Also courts are biased towards mothers, and society also seems to think a mother over rates a father, you only have to look on this board to see that

Can she really both be just 18 and have lived in government secured housing for years?

I agree with others that SW will want to make sure she is making an informed decision and is supported. Until you are named on the birth certificate or seek DNA tests if she doesn't name you there really is no official parental responsibility for you so this may further limit what can be agreed at this stage.

I agree that your ex is clearly young and vulnerable (not the same thing as a nice person) and if you have said to her face half the negative things that you've written on her, you're straying onto the territory of being abusive. I wonder whether you may have been pretty bad for her mental health.

Nevertheless, this baby needs his parents to be the best they can be. So for what it's worth:

• Stop saying derogatory things about your ex. Showing yourself to be supportive is a much better way to show you can be a good father. You don't have to like her. You have to show you're a decent human being who doesn't put the boot into others. Putting her down doesn't make you "win" by looking like the better candidate for parenthood, it makes you look nasty.

• Ease back on the pushiness. Take on board the point made above that the mother can't give informed consent until the baby is born.

You want to show that you are a loving and positive presence in the baby's life, not attempt to stamp down on the mother so you can grab the baby for yourself.

She may have left care at 16 and lived in a housing programme for 2 years or so there are various options for care leavers.
Interesting he's not been back....

Perhaps my 'sub-human' comment was misplaced, as I may have been ranting a bit. I normally save my negative and probably insulting comments for my own head, but I thought this is a forum for being open and honest; a place I could vent my frustrations as I dont want to poison my friends minds against her, as i need those around me to support the idea of us as parents. Everyone needs an outlet and perhaps it was a mistake to call her that on here, but with all respect if you knew what she's done the people around her, maybe youd agree. I think some people have taken what I said in the wrong way, whilst I referred to her in a negative fashion as far as she knows Im the most solid person in her life. I show her nothing but love, attention and respect.

@Nicknametaken: I would never say a word against her to her face, and certainly not to any of the offical types we meet. As far as everyone needs to know, we're a solid team of people with a clear idea of how we want to structure the up bringing of our child. Ive done more for her communication and mental state than her SW has done in 6 years, but questioning her understanding of whats going on is a relevant comment to make.

@businessunusual: Im probably using the wrong terminology, she was in a care home from age 12 to 17 and when she turned 18 they let her stay until other housing became available following the pregnancy they gave her a secure home for single mothers-to-be.

@Rabidanchovy: Thank you!

@Redhelenb: Thank you. Im concerned that my post came across as pompous, im really far from that. I think perhaps its my style of writing, but I certainly dont know it all. (Having just asked a friend of mine if i sound pompous and 'know it all' and they said that I do but in a nice way. Damn!) The options for his care are fairly slim to begin with, when I asked her exactly what she meant when she asked me to take full custody, so she went away and came back with her thoughts. 2 hours a day on three days, weds, fri and sun. This we presented to the varioius people, who have raised questions similar to those raised here. Which is really interesting as it helps me to see what the other side see, because if I'm wrong then I need to know and accept it. Most of my work is design based at the moment, so presuming i can grab a few minutes between parenting, domestic stuff and crashing due to sleep deprivation I should be able to work from my laptop.

@corygal: When i used the word 'cosmetic' was referring to the depth of the cut, and yes any form of self-harming is still self-harming, but my point was that she was using it as a mechanism for my attention.

@crackcrackcrak: We met the week before her 18th birthday and we slept together on her 18th. I wouldnt say I was controlling (although maybe thats denial?) as I handle her with kit gloves the whole time. I make sure she's eaten and am sometimes a bit pushy about having the right diet, but I always reinforce the fact that she is a free woman with her own mind and strengths. And because the SW and Midwife (and various people on here) had highlighted the fact that because she is vulnerable, they need to know im not leading her. But they had a meeting with just her and then came back to me and agreed that I was the best thing for baby and that she had vocalised her thoughts, needs and wants concerning the future.

@toothbrushtheif: Thank you.

@Misskeithlemon: Yes, daily. I dont really have a support network, I had councilling following the death of my daughter a couple of years ago, but i didnt really get anything out of the sessions. Im so confident in person that I just put my positivity mask on and find it difficult to start expressing what i feel. It was my intention to get some perspective and talk thiings through on here, but perhaps its not the stage for such thing - love keith lemon by the way!

I guess the elephant in the room needs addressing. I'm 32, 33 the week before he's due.

Weeeeeeell... I guessed at your age so it's no surprise tbh

So she's young, vulnerable for a number of reasons and in a relationship with a more mature man who has probably got his own history and issues from your last post (I'm terribly sorry about your daughter)

I'd recommend you discuss the above issues with the SW. They are the elephant in the room. The SW is probably thinking about it -far better that you consider it first and take advice. It does wave little red flags....

Maybe counselling would be helpful to you now. It often is, way past an event because you've had time to process a bit more.