More advice, please!

[SidelinedMum]

Having managed to stand up for DD and not cave in to my ex's bullying, there are a few issues coming up that I need to deal with and would welcome suggestions on the best way.

DD (11) is 50:50 care - one week with each of us. She is starting a new school in A couple of weeks. Ex works full time, I WFH.
Ex has not told me, or DD, his plans for her after school on the days she's with him. When I asked him about it months ago, he said he didn't have anything confirmed but anticipated that she would either do homework in the library, go to friends houses and sometimes go to her step-mums mums house until he got home from work. He might be able to be at home after school some days, too.
DD has said she would like to be able to come here if her Dad isn't at home, rather than have to go to the library, a friends house although she would probably do those sometimes.

How could I approach this? Ex's position is that when DD is with him, he is in charge and I should trust him - but I think I've got a responsibility to know, in general, what she might be able to get up to before her Dad gets home from work!
He'll undoubtedly tell me that it's none of my business - but what, if anything, can/should I do if he refuses to talk to me about it?

There's no CO, and mediation are refusing to take us due to previous experience!

I think it's difficult. I think probably if you have 50-50 care agreed then he is probably within his rights to say what he is saying. But it's linked to the thread I just started about age. Maybe it would be worth you asking advice about how much her age becomes a factor in decision making.

It's very frustrating though. I know my solicitor has said to me that just because contact has been agreed, I can ALWAYS go back to have this reviewed if I am ever concerned. I do know parents who let their 11 year olds come home and wait til they arrive home. Personally I would not be happy with that, especially if it's a long wait, and I think it's very reasonable of you to want to know what the arrangements are for your daughter. Could you go back to your solicitor for advice or is that not an option?

My solicitor made it clear that if a court were asked to decide, DDs wishes and feelings would be a very significant element.

I'm sure DD would be OK 'home alone' - her Dads not mentioned this though - but she would prefer not to be and there is an alternative.
When DD was younger, his idea that each parent was 'in charge' when she was with us was the best solution, especially because he and I have very different ideas on parenting! But now she's older, I think it should be led by her, and that she shouldn't have to miss out or put up with things just because it's "Dads week".

I'm sorry but again I think it is none of your business. You say he wants to be involved in everything but you seem just as bad. His week with her, library, home alone etc is up to him to decide j(hipefully after talking it through with her) just as it's up to you to decide when she is with you. I also think that a court would still go with the status quo unless there are real reasons to change. Good for you for getting more assertive BUT I think you need to step back a little bit.

helen Until she develops the confidence to tell her Dad that she is unhappy with his arrangements for her, are you saying that I should sit back, let him get on with it, and just do the best I can to comfort her when she is unhappy? At what point can I step in if I think she's at risk?

That goes against everything I feel and understand as her mum!

I don't agree that it is none of business if my DD is unhappy/stressed - is that really what being a mum is about ?

I would keep things as they are for now and let him decide even if it means biting your tongue.

DD3s Dad is a manipulative bully and over the past 6 months i have seen her take control of the role he plays in her life which has been a huge shock to me and more of one for him I never thought it would happen. She is going into year 8 this Sept.

Arm her with the confidence to put her own foot down. Make her feel as though she has a choice now, which she does. Her needs and voice would be heard if he wants to kick off and go back to court. She is not a possession to be shared out equally, she is a young person who should be given some control. If it makes more sense for her to come back to you then thats how it should be and vice versa.

In a year or two she wont want to be trudging home to either of you, her friends and social life will become the number one priority which is how it should be so how will he deal with that.

I dont understand why people seem so obsessed in sharing parenting so equally once the children reach a certain age. What works when they are small doesnt always work when they get older. Who wants an 18 year old sticking to the every other weekend rule because they have had all their decision making powers destroyed from a young age and have learnt to accept that everyone else knows best.

I gave my 2 oldest DC a mobile at 12/13 and they arranged their own access quite successfully. We certainly didnt stick to the original arrangement. They have grown up well balanced, happy and confident and have a great relationship with their Dad and his wife. I hope DD3 is on the same path.

Your her Mum, ask her what she wants then all sit down together if you can and discuss with him if you can and find a compromise.

Its not about yours or his needs, its about your DDs. Make sure he understands that.

Sitting down with him and putting forward other pov other than his own are impossible, he gets defensive and (in the words of our former neighbour) bombastic. I can't even use mediation anymore (we've been several times) he accused one company of bias so can't use them and other mediators have labelled him un-mediable

If he is that awkward i would just ask him for a list of the days that he wont be home for your DD and tell him that she wants to go to yours. If he doesnt like it then let him take you to court.

The court wont be interested in what you or him want, they will be very interested in what your DD wants. Its hardly a huge compromise if he picks her up from yours on his way home (i'm guessing he lives close).

How does your DD feel about the 1 week with you and the 1 week at his?

I started like that with Ex but we had to change when they hit secondary as it didnt fit with their school life or social life!

Is your DD 100% in what she wants to happen after school?

Yes, she's sure - she said she'd far rather come here than have go go to the library and hang around or to her SMums mums house, but she doesn't want her Dad to be upset with her if she tells him that

She likes the 50:50 because it's 'fair' - but wants her Dad to lay off interrogating her when she asks to specifically do something with me, particularly if it's something that she's done exclusively with him in the past - like go to the dentist.

He's very protective of 'his' time - even coming and picking her up from mine when we'd all be at the same event 2 hours later and I could have dropped her off. Given how much of 'his' time she spends with other people - she's starting to question it.

Yes I suppose I am. Her dad has 50/50 care & although you may not agree with things that he does he's not abusive towards her. Unfortunately when you split up then you do have to relinquish control. It may well be that some decisons he makes will be best for her, even if she doesn't see it at the time - it's called being a parent.

Also bear in mind you do not know what she says or doesn't say when she is with him. You are just hearing snippets.

But I do agree with other posters that things change as a child gets older & they will want to spend less time with both of you as parents as friends become more influential on their lives. And you may well find at that point that her friends empower her with regard to speaking up for herself.

the situation sounds like it might be better to just see how things progress....
I think DD may be just questioning the 'what will happen' situ but at the moment there are several possibilities that may happen
DC's do prefer to know what's happening and it's maybe a bit more difficult for them to 'just go with the flow' iykwim....
Maybe it's more about reassurance that it will all be fine and to say that DF will make sure DD is fine and each week will be dealt with and organised between them....she has option's too and she and her DF can discuss things as they go along....
I think it gets very difficult to make 'set in stone' arrangements when DC's are older and have many more needs and interests and what not...maybe socialising, and finding clubs and things she would like to join will help with the after school time and how she would like to spend her time, etc....obviously her DF has to realise this is the next stage of DD's growing up, etc so her views are very important....
I wouldn't be starting a discussion and expecting answers right now....I'd let things progress and deal with things as they arise...or maybe they won't arise and everything will be fine....wait and see and deal with each thing as it comes up...solution's and compromise....as long as your DD is happy with things and being heard fairly I don't see any big issue....

I'm not sure that she is being heard fairly

But, she starts her new school (from his house) in a couple of weeks - and based on the advice on this thread, I'm hearing that I should allow him to get on with it, and suggest that she talks to him if she wants to know what is going to happen at the end of her first day.
I'll assume that as he is a loving, caring parent he'll make sure that her needs are met. Sadly, my past experience doesn't give me confidence When she went on her orientation/tryout days last term, he wasn't there to see/drop her off

I think its fair to say that he should be there for 1st day going back and on her return from 1st day....if he won't be doing this...then you can be there instead for your DD...so she has 1 of you available on her big day....

This certainly isn't an unreasonable conversation to ask about....the first week or so is about settling in and finding her feet...she will need support and someone there at the end of her day....

I would be discussing this important aspect and asking what he can manage to arrange and you can offer to support during this time if he can't do it all himself....for your DD's sake I hope he can understand this is an important transition and a big deal for her and being there is very important to do for DD....

Once she feels into the new routine and timetables,etc then things can be looked at from there, which are about supporting her best and as she feels she needs/wants from you both....

I know I sound like a stuck record but I'm feeling so out of my depth.

If I speak to him about it - offering the option of DD coming here after school on her first day if he can't be there - and he tells me it's sorted, she's quite happy to go to the library/home alone/other relatives house when she has clearly told me that is not what she wants to do, what then?
This is why I've given in and caved so often even though DD is unhappy - I don't know how assertive I can be on her behalf without appearing controlling myself.

try to have the conversation...accept his answer and if he isn't going to be there...then you have every right to be there instead...you don't have to tell him or ask him if this is ok by him...you can decide what you want to do and what DD would want...

You can be at the school gates for her and have every right to do so....I wouldn't care whether he likes it or not....what harm is there???...what could he say against this anyway???....you want to meet your DD on her 1st day and thats easy to understand....
regardless of whether he may or may not be there...you can still meet your DD and give her a hug, etc
what can he do...after the fact anyway....just do what is right for DD and you

If your DD would be happier coming home to yours on her first day or week then absolutely insist that is what happens. It sounds as though you have bent over backwards to keep the peace over the years and now your DD is old enough to have her own opinion you have to respect that and support her. Dont teach her that she has to be submissive and her feelings come last.

The guilt feelings DD had about her Dad, which i should add has driven me to despair at times have now ceased to exist. She has finally reached the selfish, nearly a teenager age and doesnt tolerate his emotional blackmail. If anything i can honestly say it irritates the crap out of her. If he starts whining on about how desperate he is to see her and how he 'needs' to see her she switches off and then avoids the phone for days on end, so it sounds terrible but she is re-training him on what she will and wont put up with and he is slowly learning.

This time last year DD was constantly putting her choices at the bottom of the pile because she didnt want to upset him.

This isnt just a one off problem for you, it could be ongoing until she leaves school and runs off to uni to remove herself from guilt parenting so i would deal with it head on now and if he wants to stamp his feet then leave him to it.

Your DD is the only important thing. Do not compromise your DDs happiness because you dont want to annoy him. You are not controlling you are her mother and want to see her happy.

please don't teach your DD that giving in or caving to someone else is what she must learn to do...whether it makes her unhappy or not....this isn't what you want for her and you are her first example as a woman....

You want her to be independent, know her own mind and not ever be afraid of following her own judgements and choices in life....this is an important time for her to learn to spread her wings and become an adult over the next few years....her choices and feelings matter and she needs to be given these freedoms to learn to be herself...

You don't want to find that this cycle of controlling that her father projects on to you and her is the way it should be....this could be the type of man she will end up with in her future....the pieces will be very difficult to pick up later on....
if you teach her now about keeping the peace with her DF...she may never learn how to stand on her own 2 feet confidently...

Help her stand her ground and support her with her father....he will have to deal with it....

Oooooh, you put that far more eloquently than me WTWTB!!

So i am trying to say what she says OP

yea...I was just really saying the same as you were...great minds eh hahahahaha....don't know about eloquence tho...me??? hmmm...

Hope we have been some help OP...

Not being funny but she's going to SECONDARY school - a time for independence. I won't be there to pick or drop dd2 off either & she's going to a school where no one else from her primary is going. I do think you are babying her a bit & in this instance (though on others I agree with you) let her dad deal with it as he is her carer for that day.

Also, I know another single parent whose daughter would tell her how much she hated being with her dad etc etc BUT when I talked to her was full of excitement about seeing him. You need to be careful that your dd is not feeding your insecurities by saying what he thinks you want to hea

I wouldn't dream of being at the gate to drop off or pick up - she'd kill me! but she has asked that I see her off from home when she walks to the bus station and when she gets back and would like her Dad to do the same, if he can't, she'd like me to do it.

In contrast, DD was dropped off at the gate by her SM on her orientation day and told to make her way to her dads place of work afterwards

You have answered your own question really. If he cant do it then she would like you to.

Its easy, tell him that, then the rest is in his hands to accommodate that or allow you to.

You sound like a great mum who is so worried about being accused of parental alienation that its clouding your own judgement.

Your responsibility is to keep your DD happy not your Ex. Surely he is happy if DD is happy no matter how that is achieved. If he isnt, then he is a rubbish Dad and your DD deserves better!

She isnt a bit of furniture divided up in the divorce 50:50 to keep everything equal at whatever cost to her. Flexibility and compromise are the only way forward especially as she gets older.