ex now told me he wants no contact with DS

[Happylander]

I asked my ex to call the CSA today as I haven't received any money from them and as he went to them I assumed he would have to deal with it. He replied that he was not going to and that he now no longer wants anything to do with DS because he can't handle me for the next 14 years.

I tell him what I think of him when he promises stuff and doesn't do it and for not turning up when he should and for not sticking to the court order. Oh and I also told him exactly what I thought of him for trying to throw us out our home. I know I know I shouldn't but I am not one to be walked over and where our DS is concerned I will not have him continually messed about. Plus it has also made my life very difficult as I have to constantly change plans and cancel shifts when he fails to turn up so I think I am entitled to say to him that he is out of order.

He left me 10 months ago for OW and it has been hell since. He consistently fails to turn up and has a go at me when I refuse to change my plans with DS to suit his social life/holidays/weekends away. He thinks I should cancel whatever I have arranged with DS so he can swap weekends at less than a weeks notice. He regularly threatens custody and of taking DS if I don't respond in the way he wants me to i.e. not going yes okay of course. He can not handle anyone telling him he might be wrong and his behaviour is not acceptable and is completely unable to see things from my point of view and is only concerned with himself.

He should have had him all this week but failed to show up on Monday.

Anyway sorry for my angry writing but I am furious that he can do this to our son. I hate the man, I think he is a lousy role model and a very selfish person and very unreliable but he is DS father and so I have not stopped contact. There is a court order in place but what do I do if in a years time he wants contact with DS?? Will I just have to hand him over despite no regular contact and with the worry that he will just walk out of DS life again?

I am so sad for my DS he is a cracking little boy.

I appreciate it is very hard to see your DS let down - but you really don't have any right to dictate to your ex.

He can choose to behave however he wants and all you can do is support your DS and deal with the fallout.

Keep contact to a minimum and only about practical Arrangements - stay businesslike and avoid telling him what to do. Don't tell him what you think if him (why do you think he'd care?) and hopefully, as tensions subside, your DS will continue to have the dad he loves as a part of his life.

Sounds like you've had a tough time of it lately.

Do you think he is just blowing off steam or do you think he might follow through on this threat?

And I wouldn't day you've been dictating to him. I think you are well withing your rights to pull him up on things that may upset of distress your ds. You're just trying to make sure he's not hurt in a messy situation. I understand that.

Not quite sure how I have dictated to my ex by saying he is out of order for not turning up???

Anyway yes it has been tough. He has only seen DS 5 times in 6 months and that has nothing to do with me and everything to do with him putting his social life and his needs first and not DS. He even moaned that he didn't want to pick DS up at 0900 the time he stated in the court order because it meant him having to get up at 0530-0600! Something I do on a regular basis. So yes unfortunately I do think he will follow up with his threats as he never apologises for anything and does not think he ever does anything wrong. Once he says he is going to do something he never goes back on it. He has his daughter from his first wife over from NI at the moment and it is upsetting that he can turn up for her but not our DS.

I am just not sure what to do if he suddenly starts saying in a years time if he wants to see him.

You can go back to court to change the court order now, or break the court order and risk him taking you to court to enforce it, sometime in the future.

I know it makes you feel better telling him how crap you think he is as a dad, but you're just giving him more justification to let your DS down.

Moan on MN about him and accept everything he throws at you with a dignified silence to his face.

He'll never listen or agree with you, so why waste your breathe?

If he does turn up afer a long absence you tell him you are keen to facilitate access but that due to his past record you will be doing so on terms that suit your DS because you need to protect against future upset.

It would have to be very low key casual visits to earn back the trust and prove he's serious this time.

Hope it all works out for you.

notadisney mum- some of your advice doesn't make any sense. the OP isn't breaking the court order. Her ex is it by not turning up for the court ordered access. The OP can't force him to turn up if he doesn't, and it's unlikely a court would impose penalties either. So the op returning it to court now is nonsensical and a massive waste of money.

Can only agree with CharlieUniform that if he did return it to court because HE hadnt turned up, a low key build up of access would be most likely, not the present court order. He'd also look very stupid

But what I would say is have you got documented evidence of either the threats or his non attendence. good idea to document through email and text when he doesn't turn up you have to change arrangements. (e.g. Hi we were expecting you at 9 this morning as per the court order, just wondered where the heck you are ds is obviously upset if your running late and what time we can expect to see you). If it does go back to court at a later date you want to be able to demonstrate you've done everything to make it work so he can't turn round and blame you.

Can't see the court looking to kindly on a father that outrightly states his intention to take his problems with you out on his child. but still notadisneymum is right short and businesslike communication and email and texts are best for leaving a good papertrail.

lunar the OP has the option of changing the CO now, on the basis of her exH statements to avoid him turning up irregularly or infrequently and demanding his court ordered contact - or she can choose to do nothing and if her ex demands contact after an absence of some months, she can refuse contact - in which case she will be breaking the CO - and her ex could take her to court for doing so.

A NRP cannot break a CO - it is an order on the RP only

I have just spoken to CAFCASS and asked them for their advise ref if he decides in a years time to turn up and wave court order in my face. Their advise was to put in C79 form to change the current order so that he can't do that. She asked if he had been seeing DS regularly and I said no he hasn't and only seen him 5 times in 6 months instead of the 12 times he should have done and that he hasn't turned up to have this week. On that alone she said I could get the order changed to prevent him turning up whenever he felt like it let alone sending text to say he wants nothing to do with DS.

I am waiting for solicitor to call back to chat to her about putting form in and what I need to go on it.

I have not been very good at being business like...well I try it but then he normally throws a spanner in the works and I get really angry. It has only been 10months since he left me with a lot of debt for OW. I do have a text and email trail though and I am in process of downloading all his texts to laptop.

no it's not. It is an order on the named parties, Usually Mum and Dad. I would not be able to hae taken exH to court for breech of contact order otherwise.

yes she could take it to court but what's the point? the only person who genuinely gains is the lawyers. Although CAFCASS is obvously the belt and braces approach.

Wait and see. If he losing interest no further court action and no further costs. IF he takes her to court in a years time you provide evidence he has frustrated contact but that you are more than happy to facilitate contact. "Of course it does need to be realsitic in terms of what ex actually can commit to given his past performance and give time for ds to get used to the situation again. 1 set of Court hearing(s) with 1 set of costs. I don't think there was ever any suggestion that the OP was saying she wanted to stop access (that would be very stupid)

Returning it to court herself, actually then doesn't stop him returning it to court a year later to increase the amount of time to the present court order or more. the end result isn't any different to the wait and see only it's more expensive.

I wonder whether the cheaper middle ground approach is sols letter asking if a revised schedule is more appropriate, given the difficulty ex seems to have with the present arrangements

IF fact doing that and stating how you would return it to court but don't see how in this situation given the stress conflict puts on both parents, that benefits the child .

lunar none of the Contact Orders I've seen or been party to name a NRP - how did you secure the original order?

Anyhow, the OP has been advised to apply to court to change the order - so that seems like the most sensible advice

Cheaper still - write the letter herself send it recorded delivery, request a reponse within 14 days - thats all a solicitor will do and you have saved £100.

make the proposal in the same lettter.

The OP had been advised to submit a C79 variation form to the Court- her own letter or that of a solicitor won't achieve the same result and the current order will stand

what 3xcookedchips said.

I'm not sure about Cafcass' advice at all, either parent can return the case to court or set up a new case at any time. Returning the case to court now won't stop that, it would enable a variation. But variation can be agreed between parents anyway. A solicitors letter or recorded delivery letter suggests that the OP was "recognising the difficulties her ex was having with contact" and "trying to faciliate contact by offering a renegotiation". Exactly what would happen if either party returned it to court in the future. Only it saves a few thousand.

Received a lot of advice from Professionals over time. Only one I've found to be of any use is try and agree as much as possible out of court.

As long as the OP doesn't say she want's to stop contact

I just checked All my contact orders state who the orders are between.

The letter is a first step rather than jump straight back to court - provides a paper trail of both sides working to a solution. Gives the other side a reasonable opportunity to respond or ignore which provides more ammunition should it reach court.

The order should say at the at the bottom

There shall be such other periods of residence as the parties may agree

Doesn't this provide the opportunity to vary the order without recourse to court?

Incidentally I would also get in there quick with a letter (sols or otherwise) stating that any variations to the order need to be agreed in writing with 21 days notice.

Again I agree with what 3xcookchips said.

How is it in the kids best interest to return it to court? In this case -where Dad is showing he really can't be bothered- what's the point?

I must confess I am a man, I think It was my Fathers fault or my Mothers.

I'm glad I got that out of the way.

I've fought for 6yrs over two continents to be able to spend time with my children and since last November the court action stopped and contact orders are in place, my ex is a very angry person who plots and schemes to cause me as much misery as she can, It's getting to the point now that for my own mental health I might have to stop contact with my two DD's.

It's not big things she does just constant little digs and jibes and PA behaviour, the type of behaviour that nearly drove me to suicide when we were married.

Get a copy of a book called Putting Children First by Karen Woodall

Or to quote Philip Larkin - never a truer word said,

They fcuk you, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do...

But I digress.

WhoWhatWhereWhen - not entirely sure how that's helpful to the OP. the OP can't make her ex show an interest in her kids or turn up when the contact order says he should turn up.

Sadly it is not the first time I have heard of NRP pursuing access through the courts years on end only to decide for whatever reason that actually they don't want to see there child for as much time as they fought for afterall. My own case included.

I have that book and I have read it. I don't want contact to stop I want him to turn up every other weekend and not at the last minute let our DS or me down. I welcome the break from a very demanding toddler and a break where I don't feel guilty as he is with his dad. I work shifts and sometimes due to looking after DS I am awake for well over 24 hours a lie in would be bloody great.

Little digs....I tell him he is out of order for not turning up, I tell him it is not acceptable to expect me to change my plans because he has some social function to go so won't be there on his weekend and so wants him on another weekend and this is done at short notice. I will not change plans already made to suit his social life and I think I am well within my rights not to. The judge told him that it was unacceptable to expect this and it is written into contact order that he has to give 2 months notice of any changes and that if I have already made plans then he has to accept that. I offered more contact than he wanted.

I am angry but only because he consistently fails to adhere to the contact order. I have tried to make it amicable but he then does something that I consider out of order so I tell him so. Like trying to charge me rent for a place he pays nothing towards!!

He set the dates he wanted in court and I have never had a problem with them in 6 months he has stuck to 2 of those dates. The other 4 times he has bothered with DS has meant swapping weekends. The rest he hasn't bothered turning up for and this after telling DS that he will see him at the weekend. All he has to do is turn up regularly but he doesn't. I have no agenda to make his life hell as I don't give a toss about him.

Plus no matter I say to him about him being out of order for not turning up it is never acceptable to use that as an excuse to not see our son. Never! I hate the man and I think he is vile but I have not stopped our DS from having a relationship with him. Instead I have to mop up the tears and say daddy loves him but he is busy/working and not actually he wants to go out and get pissed instead. It is me that allows my DS freely to talk about his dad and the OW without making any degrading remarks about the pair of selfish idiots they are for treating our DS in this way.

I am really quite offended that you are putting me in the same bracket as your Ex whowhatwhenwhere

However, I don't want him to turn up in years to come wave the contact order and take our DS for the weekend as this would not benefit our DS at all and would be rather distressing for him especially if ex then decided to sod off out of his life again.

"I am really quite offended that you are putting me in the same bracket as your Ex whowhatwhenwhere"

Happylander - I Quite agree with the comparison being totally out of order.

Thank you. xx