Being dictated to by ExP's Partner - bit long

[useyourloaf]

DS is due to start nursery school attached to local primary in September.

It was agreed back in March that they would take DS on a summer holiday and despite me asking several times, I'd had no info from them about when they were planning to go. As she has school-age children and they put summer holiday in their solicitors letter, I assumed it would be during school holidays.

ExP told me yesterday that they are going on holiday in September but they hadn't booked anything yet. I pointed out that this might clash with DS starting nursery school.

She told me over the phone today that I couldn't stop them from taking DS even if it clashed, to stop being awkward and difficult and would I really want to stop DS going on the holiday of a lifetime . Also, that I never thanked her for everything she did for DS and that I should be grateful to her.

I said that I was happy he was going but I wasn't happy about the timing as I want him to start and settle at nursery school with the other children. She told me not to try to dictate when she could go on holiday. I asked her why she didn't take her DC's on holiday in school holidays and she pretty much said because she wants to be able to go when it suits her. She went on to say that they would apply for joint residency and then they could take DS out of the country whenever they like, she'd spoken to her lawyer 5 minutes ago and as I'd agreed to a holiday that was that.

The whole situation is very acrimonious and there's no hope of dialogue other than through solicitors as it has been in the past.

Long and boring post I know, so thanks for reading!!

WWYD?

Sorry, 'making rid for your own back' has never been more apt. I have absolutely no idea why you discussed anything with her.
Just don't engage or tell her to fuck off (just not in writing).

No one tells me what to do with my own child, with my ex we discuss things. He wouldn't dream of passing the buck to someone else in regards to our child, your ex is a spineless git and the main problem here. I doesn't seem he's really interested in your DS.

I think that when your ds starts nursery isn't such a huge deal, he will cope.

I think her telling you what she will be doing with your ds is the big issue here.

Next time just hang up. If you have to, send a solicitor's letter saying you will only speak to ex and that she should not attempt to contact you directly. If they are now a couple living together then she will be involved in your sons life to some degree, so if you can work out a way to arrange things together, then that is best for all of you.

Can you write down your thoughts on this and email it, then keep a copy.

drinkfeckarsegirls I know, I know I shouldn't have spoken to her. ExP has too much to lose if he stands up to her I think. He lives in her house and has nothing of his own. He bled me dry. He is definitely allowing and encouraging her to dictate to me. She very likely believes every shit word he has said about me.

kickassangel yes he will have to fit in if he starts nursery late and he'll cope, but that situation could still be avoided and DS could have best from both worlds if she would be open to compromise and discussion.

I get told all the time what to do by him, by her. There is no discussion.

How can I fucking deal with people like this.

Whether you speak to her or not, you still have the problem of them putting their needs before the child's needs to have a good start to nursery with everyone else. September is the worst time for any child over 4 yrs to take a holiday. I would see your solicitor to find out the position. I have no doubt the school would agree with you, but at 4 yrs he doesn't legally have to be there and even at 5 it would just go down as unauthorised absence, sometimes there is a fine but people just pay it and go.

Practise saying "I will not discuss my child with his father's current girlfriend" and hang up on her.

Say it perfectly pleasantly - never descend to their level- and then just hang up. Don't get drawn into argument.

I would check with the nursery when his induction is going to be. Explain to them that DS's dad will be taking him on holiday and you want to make sure DS is around for the important parts. Then I'd stick it in a very polite letter (to ex only) informing him of the dates that DS can't do as you would love DS to go on holiday, and wanted to avoid any issues that may arise.

If you get her on the phone again, and she won't pass the phone to Ex, hang up!

Interesting question as to whether they could take him or not. I would have thought that the child's well being would take priority, and that regular events in their life (routine) was more important than a one off jolly holiday. It would be (surely) in the child's best interest to settle down in nursery class together with the other children, so that they are better able to deal with it emotionally. On top of it this will be penalising you financially, as I assume you are paying for the nursery. I think you should try and get advice on this. Even if you just try and find a legally trained bod on another board here. Either way she is not a joint parent and has no say.

Write them a letter stating quite simply, these are his dates for school, as discussed over the phone no holidays in term time as it is disruptive to the child, since no holiday has been yet been booked any attempt to book vacation in term time will mean child cannot come. End of.

If its a nursery class in a school then the same rules apply about taking them out as they would in receiption, i.e. you need the schools permission and as far as I am aware schools are clamping down on this and as such you shouldnt be doing it. Also to do it in the first few weeks of settling in is just madness.

I would suggest writing to them, saying that you are in agreement with them taking a holiday in the summer holidays. The summer holidays are x to x, however you will not agree for them to take a holiday during school term time as education is important in fact if i dig it out I will give you the exact wording form the government letter weve received, telling us we must be at deaths door to allow holidays in term time.
Go on to say you will not be speaking to your XPs partner about any routine issues to do with DS, as those are for you and the twatish XP to sort out.

My friend sucessfully blocked a term time holiday when her DS was 4 for similar reasons, so I guess its totally dependant on the judges view.

daffy They cant take him abroad as far as I understand, as leaving the country requires consent from all with PR. OP has PR and assumedly would not be giving consent.
In this country I think is a different matter, and would depend on whether there was a court order. If there is no court order, then yes they could if there is a court order then they could as long as it fell within XPs "time"

If your ex has PR then he can decide, independently from you, anything to do with the DCs and unless you can agree on a compromise, your only recourse is a prohibited steps order/specific issue order in court. I suggest you seek mediation as soon as possible to try and get an agreement in place before September.

The fact that your ex has delegated these decisions to his DP is ridiculous but again, if he stands by her decisions then all you can do is insist that you deal with him - not her.

magicllama exactly.

I have to admit that I ended up booking a holiday with dd during the first week of her nursery. The timing was out of my hands in terms of the holiday. So it was that or nothing.

I did apologise to XP ( the RP ) and offered to cover any days at her request over the actual holidays as I understand that it means XP would be responsible for dd all over the holidays. I even invited her along ( declined ) .

There is a bit of swings and roundabouts. Metaphorically not literally.

I don't think dd is going to suffer greatly from going to nursery a week later than the other children. I realize I messed up a little, certainly wouldn't do it when dd starts school proper.

I'd be inclined to let this one go, but make it crystal clear ( to your XP ) it can't happen once dc is attending school. I'd also only discuss anything with XP as this woman seems to be an ass.

They haven't booked anything yet, they know the dates DS starts nursery school, they know how I feel about it, they said "summer holiday" when they decided to go to solicitor to scare me with legal letters, she's taking her kids out of school and proposes to take DS too because it suits her. She thinks she's the boss and even tells me about my own child, ExP has no balls.

And I will probably have to agree. I'm furious (can you tell). It's crazy.

btw I changed my fri-mon weekend away in the UK with DS last weekend to Thurs-Sun so as not to impinge on DS time with ExP as he would not agree to shifting his 2 days with DS to one day later.

I didnt challenge or argue as I didn't have the energy to do so. It's so one-sided.

I've had this, by the bucket.
Get firm NOW. Refuse to engage with either of them, especially her. Take the child to nursery ( his best interests) and let them take you to court. Don't be frightened by talk of solicitors. She has learned to speak to you like that because her partner says it's ok.

You tell them it's not.

You do not have to agree. Practise saying specific phrases over and again to them, like a stuck record.

"Sorry, but that doesn't work for me." (or scrub the "sorry" and just say "I'm afraid")
"I will not discuss my children with you, only with their father."

Do not get drawn into anything else. At the most, you could say, "I'm happy for ds to come on holiday with you, but most certainly not during school term-time. Not now, or ever."

Hope you get this sorted, you've had some great advice.

Our school nursery (which is not childcare, by the way...the highly qualified staff that work in that class would be horrified if that's all parents think it is) suffers from extended absences to due to the number of children we have with extended families outside the UK. Children automatically lose their place if absent for more than 10 consecutive school days, other than due to illness. You might want to check this out.

Your ex is a coward hidding behind the skirt of a strong woman. So my advice, don't mess with her ( your child will pay for it, i assure you and your ex won't do anything about it).
If you don't want to talk to her, kindky ask her to put the ex on the phone, if she refuses, insist and tell her to pass the phone or that you will be forced to end up the conversation. And do if she doesn't. You can't be forced to discuss anything with her, and as she is trying to establish who is in charge you are not going to be able to negotiate anything with her as her main interest is to show you that she is the one calling the shots.

Now, with regards to the holiday. I wouldn't be happy about my child missing the first week of school, simply put, by the time he joins in, friendships groups would have started to gel together and he may find it difficult to break into one. If your child is quite outgoing and extrovert this won't be a problem. But if he is not, then say you are happy for him to go on holiday but not on those two weeks.. Don't get bullied into accepting what they want, you have the same right as your ex to say no.

Don't get intimidated by threats of involving solicitors either, if they want to go that way the first thing you have to do is to get a clear of idea about what eould be the best outcome for your child if it comes to it and fight for that. With time you would come to appreciate that solicitors letters are just fancifully written letters by a expensive hand, but at the end of the day they carry no more authority than the words of your ex.

All the best.

Ah... And don't start wasting your money in solicitors just yet, you need to save that money for more important things.

If they send a solicitors letter you can just respond by pointing them to the previous solicitors letter which states they wanted to take your DC on a summer holiday. Since then they've changed their plan to an autumn holiday, and you did not agree to that as it would clash with your DC starting nursery.

Let them send their solicitors threat-o-grams, as pedigree indicated, they don't carry any legal weight.

Does anyone know if the rules against term time holidays apply to independent schools?

I'm with Pingu and pedigree. And anyone ith PR can say no to overseas trips - my heart was in my mouth going to majorca as my ex wouldahve reported me for abduction as his partner would do anything to mak our lives hell. Stand up to her now or it will get worse xxx

Actually, if there is a full residence irder in your favour, the non resident parent cannot ban a trip as long as the trip us shorter than 30 days. With shared residence, either parent can take child away without the other permission but most will infirm the ither oart to keep the peace. Without a residence order, either parent can take the child away and never bring them back, legally speaking, there won't be anything the left behind parent could do about it.

Actually, if there is a full residence order in place, the non resident parent cannot ban a trip as long as the trip is shorter than 30 days. With shared residence, either parent can take child away without the other's permission but most will inform the other part to keep the peace. Without a residence order, either parent can take the child away and never bring them back and, legally speaking, there won't be anything the left behind parent could do about it.

I'm completely at a loss. Who was this conversation with? Your son's father's new girlfriend? If that is the case, then have no more conversations with her. Deal with him and him alone.