Is anyone else being pushed out of their DC's lives? Does it matter?

[SidelinedMum]

I've name changed as I know ex checks out my online activity and I don't want him seeing this yet, please don't out me if you recognise me!

Before I start, I know that DD is far more fortunate than many DC's as her Dad does care about her, spends time with her and financially supports her. I am not suggesting for one minute that she would be better off without him around, but I'm hoping that I'm not the only one who has ever felt the way I do at the moment, and ask for advice from those that have, or are, in the same position as me.

Since ex and I split 3 years ago, we have had 50:50 care of DD (11). She spends a week with each of us. It hasn't been easy, and there are days when I regret not following my solicitors advice and seeking a less equal split of care.

My ex has, from the outset, made choices which appear to be an attempt to exclude me from my DD's life. He arranged for her mail to be forwarded from the family home to his new address, he tried to change her GP to one nearer his new home, and he changed her primary place of residence with the school and local Children's Services Dept to his new address, arguing that he has as much right to as I do.

He has also established a much closer relationship with my family than while we were married, which they have supported by ensuring that their family events - such as weddings and christenings - are scheduled at a time that means that DD attends them with him, rather than me.

When he decided that he no longer wanted DD to walk to my house after school each day until he finished work (which was the regular arrangement) he didn't talk to me or DD in advance about it, he went to a solicitor and arranged for a letter to be delivered to me after DD had gone to school on the day it was going to happen and the first DD knew of it was when her Dad turned up to pick her up from school.

There have been literally dozens of incidents, which taken individually seem fairly innocent, but when put together, become a pattern of behaviour that seem to be designed to minimise my role in DD's life.
Ex arranges and takes DD to all her dentist appointments - occasionally he will email me to tell me what has been said. I asked him for details of the dentist DD sees recently, and he emailed me back to say that he thought he was in charge of her contact with her dentist. (He did provide me with the details when pushed, though).
When DD told her Dad that she and I had been planning her first solo bus journey the following week, he arranged for her to take a solo bus journey before she saw me next.

When DD asked him if she could spend an extra day with me because a friend of mine had offered to introduce DD to her own DD and friends who she will be going to secondary school with, ex made direct contact with my friend (via her place of work) and arranged to drop DD off and pick her up himself.

When DD asked her Dad for her passport so that she could open a bank account that she and I had been talking about, he took her to open a different account before she next saw me. (he has her passport & her Birth Certificate, oh, and her baby box with all her scans, hospital bands, formal baby photos etc in, which he took when he moved out).

I have tried to take the high ground, tried not to allow it to bother me, tried to keep DD's best interests at the forefront of my mind, but it is really, really hard.

On the one hand - does it make a difference to DD? She is still doing all the things she wants to - it's just that she does them all with her Dad, not me. On the other hand, is his desire to be involved in everything creating a superficial relationship between DD and myself?
He has a right to know what is going on in her life; but when he is told by DD or myself of plans that we have together, he then ensures that she has that experience with him first, instead.

Am I alone? Mad? Stupid to worry about it?

Don't dentists and GPs normally just have to have the consent of either parent, not both?

I think you're in a really rough position - your ex is very clearly challenging your right to be your DD's primary carer. A lot of his behaviour must be infuriating, though if he were the mother, I think would usually go unchallenged.

Inded, I'm not sure how much of it you could challenge legally (though well worth using your free 30 mins to find out) but wonder if you might be better to pusue the mediation route. Would there be ways of working things out so that you each take the primary carer role in certain aspects of your DD's life - eg you let you ex be the one who does the dentist, and you do other medical stuff; he buys her new shoes, and you do other clothes, etc? School I would imagine you'd both want to stay involved in. He really has no business excluding you from the emergency contacts form though, and he must know that.

Why do you think he's being like he is? Is he unhappy with co-parenting between households, and wanting to recreate a nice little family with his StbDW? Or does he just like picking fights? Or is he genuinly frightened of being cut out of his DD's life (which could be heightened by her growing up and becoming more autonomous) and in need of reassurance that you're not trying to do that?

Whatever his reasoning I think that your main advantage is that she is growing up and it is not like fighting over a 3 year old. She will have her own opinions on everything. I think that you need to refrain from fighting(although you do need to try and quietly stop yourself being sidelined) maintain a good relationship with her and be the very reasonable one and she will see the contrast. Teenagers do not want to be micro controlled and steam rollered into things.

purple technically, yes - either parent can consent to medical treatment, although most medical professionals are advised to seek the consent of both if they know that there is conflict to avoid potential litigation later. That's one area I'm going to discuss with a solicitor.

You're right - if he was her mum, his behaviour wouldn't be challenged and most men would give their right arm to have 50% shared care - they wouldn't care about the nuances. But that doesn't make it right, and I have supported my DP in his attempts to ensure he has a voice in his DCs lives, too. My feeling is that DD has a right to express an opinion about who she wants to share events in her life with - and at the moment, the care arrangement in place prevents that.

DD has opened up a bit to me since last weeks debacle and it's clear that she is being affected by his behaviour - he has reduced her to tears by questioning her incessantly about why she would prefer to do certain things with me, or on her own, rather than with him, and told me that his questioning of her is often worse than putting up with the awkwardness of going along with what he wants to do with her.
She also said that she knows from 'the look on his face and the sound of his voice' that he is upset when she tells him that she'd rather do things her way than his

Oh dear.

Please for your dds sake stand up to him now. It's obvious that it's all about him and putting himself first and not about your dd and how she feels. She's already admitted to going along with what he wants to avoid the looks and questions. She's getting older so it's not going to get better.

What messages is this giving this young girl about relationships in future - its not healthy for her.

Your ex may not appreciate it now but stepping in now, putting in boundaries and ensuring her needs and wants are taken into account may in the long term save their relationship, if he keeps on like this theres a good chance she could totally cut him off as soon as she gets old enough.

As for motive - i think it's really complicated

He thinks in very black-and-white terms, and he has said previously that he believes that he has the right to be involved in everything DD does. He displayed a lot of anger towards me for not telling him immediately about an activity DD was taking part in the following week - he objected to the fact that I had known about it for a couple of days longer than him despite the fact it was entirely in school hours and required no special arrangements. He wanted to know about it for the same length of time as I had.

He's socially clumsy - not particularly good at reading social cues - tends to stand to close and speak loudly during conversations, and is intractable at times - arguing with advisors and specialists like solicitors, teachers and the bank manager - but not recognising the impact of his behaviour and actually expressing his belief that it was a valuable and constructive conversation!

Family is very, very important to him - not just immediate family but wider and extended family too. He considers my grandparents, parents & sister to be a part of his family and gets very defensive and upset if his relationship with them is questioned, or they don't involve him in one of their family events.

I think that he and stbDW would have liked their own DC's - when he told me that he was seeing someone, the first thing he told me about her was that she couldn't have children, by explaining to me that she had had unprotected sex with her ex husband for 4 years without getting pregnant (yes, really, he told me that!)

I don't believe that I've done anything to lead him to think that I'm trying to exclude him - but there are so many horror stories out there about bitter ex wives that I can see why he would. His stbDW has been married before, and her exH was excluded from his own DCs life by his ex.

He sends a chill down my spine. Reading about him makes me feel very uncomfortable.

His controlling behaviour is not acceptable. Your poor daughter

I wonder if he is on the spectrum? And really has no concept of how controlling his behaviour seems.

If so I would try to get advice and help your daughter learn how to deal with him. I would also enquire if there is a counsellor at her senior school, and definitely see if she can get regular sessions talking to someone outside the home, just show she can sort out her thoughts and feelings without feeling under emotional pressure from either of you. And even more crucially so any courts can see that she is making such decisions uninfluenced by you.

I think mummytime's advice is good. In a way, the legal stuff is a sideshow. At this stage of the game, I don't see how he can really crowd you out of your dd's life. He can encroach a little bit around the edges, but he's not going to be able to get her all to himself, however much he tries. But your dd needs help to navigate the relationship with her dad. She shouldn't learn the lesson that you yield all the time, even though you might decide to pick your battles and not necessarily fight all the time.

Yes Mummytime the description Sidelined just gave did make me think Aspergers too. My ex has AS, and cannot see our DS' point of view. If DS is upset or wants to do something with Mummy, rather than him, he is being "Naughty", and his opinion is squashed. DS is scared to tell him now when he'd rather not do something with him. He tells me he goes along with what Daddy wants so Daddy doesn't get cross
I think the Ed Psych at school or school counsellor would be great for your DD to talk to, then she can express all this.
If your DD is upset by this, then you HAVE to stick up for her. Even if it means a scene. He is the one being unreasonable, and it seems your DD can see this. I made the mistake in the past of bowing too much to my ex DH's view as he was so ADAMANT and always so convinced he was right and I was wrong. But my catch phrase for the past thee years has been "Just because he's adamant, doesn't mean he's f*$%ing right!!!"

My ex is also obsessed with everything being 50/50. Even if it's totally not in DS's interests. That is an AS point of view.

nickname that's a really good point! If we do end up mediating i think that is what I will focus on - the fact that from where I'm standing, his relationship with DD is deteriorating. It's up to him whether he choses to listen to what I've got to say or not.
Alongside that, I will help DD as much as I can to deal with him and make sure that she gets that support at school.

I've always been wary of bandying around labels - ex has never been diagnosed as AS, although he does display a lot of traits that fit. It has become more apparent since I began doing some volunteering for the local branch of the Autistic Society and have been interacting with adults who are open about their condition and the social challenges it presents.
I do explain to DD that everyone is different and some people are good at certain things (like Maths or football) but might find other things more of a challenge (like understanding what someone means) - but I don't want to be too specific.

He sounds like a good old fashioned controlling arse to me.

Autistic does not = abusive.

No, I know - there are controlling arses everywhere: some of them might also be AS, or diabetic, or left handed - but that isn't causing the abuse.

Sidelined, I think you are doing a brilliant job. Would be so easy to fall into a fight with your ex over your DD, but you quietly and firmly reverse those things that you're able and you don't sink to your ex's astonishingly hurtful ways.

You have dignity and your DD's care at the heart of what you do and your DD is seeing this.

He is controlling though and you will struggle over time to keep fending him off, so I think a solicitor is an excellent next step.

Yes but learning about the AS brain will help you learn how to deal with him. My ex is fixated on how things should be regarding DS and has no flexibility on that, regardless of how DS feels. Sounds like your ex. No need to tell him about the label but useful to look into it to learn coping strategies. But it sounds like you learnt a lot through the Autistic society work.
I feel so sorry for your DD. Aside from him stopping you taking her on the school tour, what must it be like spending 50% of your childhood with someone who cannot see your point of view and has no interest in what's good for you, but fixates only on what they perceive to be the important thing; , i.e. that he is FULLY involved with his daughter, regardless of whether she wants him to be or whether its damaging to her for him to be?
It's as if he once read that it's good for fathers to be fully involved in their children's lives, and God Damn it he's going to MAKE SURE he's FULLY involved in her life! No flexibility, no seeing the big picture, no considering anyone's feelings

Reading this thread with horror. I have been/currently am in a situation with my ex and his wide that is very similar to this in parts. It is nowhere near as severe and i echo the poster who said he is trying to make your dd a non person in his life.
He sounds like an utter utter narcissist and while I feel like you could easily sit back and let him fuck up his relationship with dd (because he will, that's a given) - you can't take the chance that he wont fuck up your relationship with her either.
Honestly, you have to find a way to stand up to this man. One of the ways that has helped me stand up to my stbex and his wife is to have my dp with me during as many dealings with him as possible. I have also allowed dp to actually go and speak to exp once regarding his behaviour and he totally calmed down. He is getting off on his control over you and if he is clear that you and your dp are a unit he may well get bored. I also suggest that you stop engaging him in lengthy emails explaining every pathetic percieved parenting crime he believes you have committed. You will never be free of his fuckwittage if you keep giving him oxygen. Believe me, I have wasted so much time and energy responding to vile ( but beautifully worded) emails that put the fear of god into me. They were worded in such a way that set a total honey trap for me and I took the bait each and every time. They were usually along the lines of 'once again we are gravely concerned that you are putting your own needs before dd', please try take our concerns on board so that dd'd health and well being does not suffer any detriment'
VILE
The emails never once swore, showed any anger, or looked like they were mud slinging. They were written purely for the 'concern' of dd. ( my crimes btw were things like giving dd a bag of crisps, buying shoes that didn't fit ex's standard etc) . Of course I would be distraught, reply asking him what the hell he was doing, defending myself etc and feeling like such a shit Mother. It took a solicitor to make me see what he was doing. I now either ignore, ( it was so hard) or reply along the lines of 'that is not appropriate, i will not respond to any points that do not directly relate dd's pick up/drop off times.

Seriously, you are giving him way too much head space and he knows it. Keep your emails brief, stand up for your relationship with you child, get your dp on side and be more of a presence in dd's life in other ways if you can? ( volunteer at her school?, have her friends over more often, befriend her friends parents, make yourself known in every way possible. In other words, close your ranks.

pingu the emails sound very familiar - the ones I get go along the lines of I'm sad and disappointed that you are unable to put your hatred of me to one side for DDs sake and other such drivel

Ignoring him, or not engaging, was counterproductive - he would drag DD into it you leave me no choice but to involve her and he used my lack of response as evidence to professionals and my parents that I had absolved myself of responsibility for DD sidelined doesn't care enough about DD to talk to me.

But I have found a solution that seems to work and makes me feel better. He is not brilliantly articulate, so I use that to my advantage, along with the fact that I have the time on my hands, to dissect his emails and highlight the inconsistencies, asking for clarification as he has contradicted himself or misquoted a previous email. He generally gives up after a couple of ping-pong emails like that; and occasionally it will end with him sending a short, rational response that has obviously been written by someone else, either his stbDW or my mum, I suspect!

Interesting that you mention your DP - mine has only ever got directly involved once, after ex disclosed DPs personal financial info to a company that both ex and I were dealing with. DP was so patient with ex (particularly given the circumstances) and ex was totally out of his depth. Afterwards, ex stated that he refused to deal with intermediaries and would only deal with me in future

I have a three-pronged plan - legal advice to see what (if anything) I can do to prevent him making significant life decisions for DD independent of me, mediation as a one-time-only chance for him to hear my concerns about the damage to DDs relationship with him, and support for DD to help her develop coping strategies. Oh, and gin

I can't offer much in the way of specific advice - your ex sounds like a total twunt but i do recognise how somebody manipulative can make you tie yourself up in knots as this i what my sister does to me, I've been recommended:

this

Great 4-point plan, sidelined!

Sounds like a good plan!

New to MN, but this thread struck a chord with me - this is what my ex has been doing for nearly 7 years, and have felt that I am being pushed out by my ex and his DW. I have 2 DDs, one who worships the ground her dad and SM walk on, one who loves Mummy to bits. I actually fear that the damage is done where DD1 is concerned, but hoping that one day she realises. She is 11.

I will say though that a lot of men can show what could be considered to be AS traits, but my ex isn't AS. DP is and would in no way behave towards me/the children, the way my ex has!

Berris I'm sorry that you are going through this too -I've only just recognised the damage it is doing to DD, and am determined to do everything I can to make a difference.

I'm not sure if AS is a factor in my ex's understanding of the world or not; but I do know that most AS dads are loving, caring and positive influences in their DC's lives, so am certain that if my ex is AS, it is not the cause of his behaviour.

I don't know if I ever could have done anything. I do feel weak and a bit pathetic, but I was always so conscious of doing as much as I could for our DD's sake that I have probably ended up going too far the other way.

I have continual criticism of my parenting, I'm judged on my lifestyle, my choices, etc. my DD's used to be told that people would laugh at them if they wore certain clothes bought by me. He has a long list of criticisms against me, but will never put his money where his mouth is and take it court, despite having threatened to on more than one occasion! I don't actually WANT to involve courts, I must admit.

The behaviour, to me, smacks of parental alienation, although its not totally recognised yet.

cerealqueen thank you for the book recommendation - it arrived yesterday and I've been devouring it - it's incredible how accurate it is !!!