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Ex moving abroad soon - son doesn't want to see him anymore at all

51 replies

Bluepenny · 12/05/2012 10:55

Hi everyone

I'd appreciate any opinions and thoughts on how it would be best to handle the above situation.

DS is nearly 12. His father and I have been split for many years, we've joint parented, kept things friendly and all has been quite stable - up until now!

Ex announced he is moving 12 hrs flight time away about a month ago. Since then son has still seen him regularly, but after each visit he goes through a combination of anger and upset. He tells me he feels abandoned by his father (wrongly or rightly blaming it on another woman his father has just met out there) and has said he doesn't want to see him anymore - even though he's not left the UK yet and is due to see him soon.

How do I play this? Force him to see his Dad, as there won't be many opportunities to do so before he emigrates, or do I try and explain to his Dad how he feels and side with DS?

It hasn't helped that his father has blogged to the world much more detail than he has told DS or I...unfortunately DS has taken it from it that his Dad doesn't love him or care about him very much.

Thoughts much appreciated - am very much in two minds on this one.

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seaofyou · 26/05/2012 00:04

I had to comment sorry...it was like being in candy shop could not resist!

I suggest you ask MNHQ to actually delete ex's blog page as ex only has to do a search and your thread will come up!

What does solicitor think?

Have you printed everything off?

seaofyou · 26/05/2012 00:10

oops just did search and it never come up? So ok I think but check yourself first.

Bluepenny · 26/05/2012 08:44

Morning all,

Catching up and thanks to those who added comments to the blog. Yes, tried googling it and nothing has come up from here, but I will still ask MNHQ to delete the link just in case.

XP has sent a very long email to DS last night. DS wants me to help him respond, as his own response is a middle finger gesture. It's a very self-indulgent email - all about seeing XP's point of view and omits key areas, whilst some stuff is directly in opposition to his blog - which poses the question - do we now let on we know about the blog - it seems like we might have to in order for DS to say how he feels.

I didn't get chance to contact a solicitor yesterday due to work (month end, self employed and more importantly, pay myself day!), but I will do that on Monday.

In the meantime, going to enjoy the sunshine and get out and about and try and keep things in perspective.

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seaofyou · 26/05/2012 11:07

I responded with the Gestalt therapy and basically told ex he was running way...but you can never run away from 'yourself'

I take it those aggressive reponses to people who did not feed his ego, was from the girlfriend in his defence....I do wonder who is the child in this relationship your ds or ex.

It's his mess and his conscience so do not take any of the work to soothe it. If your ds soesn't want to see df you have to respect that. Maybe if ds told him face to face ex may get the message? But this is for your ds to decide what he wants to do.

You ex is now devastated his ego has been pricked by true replies that are thinking of your dc not a childman as they are called!

Your ds sounds extremely sensible and you must be so proud of him and you are a lovely lovely mum who will help your ds through this and become a stronger young man because of this.

Theheebiejeebies · 26/05/2012 15:01

He does sound com

Theheebiejeebies · 26/05/2012 15:19

Sorry phone likes to post by itself!

He does sound completely self obsessed and thoughtless but he is the only father your son has. Your son obviously loves him or he wouldn't be so upset he's leaving the country. You probably won't be able to stop him leaving but I wouldn't be so keen to 'support' your son in cutting contact. It's likely that's just a reaction to the hurt he's experiencing. He's only 11 after all and 10 years down the line might regret losing contact and resent you too if he perceives you've put further barriers in the way and not encouraged him to keep in touch. For example by stopping him going to see DF and refusing to allow him to have PR. I disagree on that issue too as I would think a court would still grant PR - particularly if you're using that as a reason to stop holidays to see his Dad.

Finally, it is possible your son has some difficulty talking to you about how he feels about the situation too. He'll be aware you don't get on and (rightly) disapprove of what his father is doing so may be taking a more negative/angry line than he would otherwise.

There are some services that do mediation where the DCs are able to speak to a mediator too. Maybe that would be a better option? Ultimately you want to support your son in a situation where he must feel abandoned and upset but there's no point in simply getting angry at your ex - your son needs the most positive outcome from this not the most negative.

seaofyou · 26/05/2012 15:55

Mediation would be good...do you know where Blue would get this Theheebies for her ds as most services have been cut?

Blue you are doing the best you can supporting ds but I would not get invloved with ex trying to use you as the mediator...this is his responsibity...as ex could quickly try and blame you if it goes pear shaped...which it clearly is...how ever this is dealt with a preteenage boy is feeling totally abandonded by a df who is writing all over a blog it is the mum's fault for not bonding with ds, not feeling like a df and don't feel he is leaving anything behind worth staying for in UK!

Ex has gone totally wrong way about it to publish it all on a blog anyone can read, including his own ds.

Ds knows Blue you are their for him whatever he decides. Even if it is no contact whilst he tries to work through it all. If they don't have mediation sessions you could ask his df to foot the bill for private CBT that ds will probably need to work out what ds wants to do short and possibly long term. Df might agree to this as works in this field?

Bluepenny · 26/05/2012 16:44

Thanks Seaofyou - I thought your blog reply was spot on and will appeal to XPs love of "the self". The 2 other anonymous replies putting DS first I think are also from MN contributors? The first 2 named replies - both followers on his social media page - putting XP first.

I see MN have removed the link, so thank you to them for doing that so soon after my request.

DS remains adamant in his stance at the moment and stubbornly refuses to speak to his Dad (phone) - he seems ok with emails, but is worringly frightened of how his Dad would react in person (shouting at him apparently is a norm that I wasn't aware of and something that needs to be explored with a Pro).

Heebie - thanks for your post too - I think if you read back, you'll see this is the first fall out with DS's father in 12 years, everything has been amicable up until this event and DS does love his father and is reacting in a way that he hoped would stop him leaving the country I agree - he knows from his father's latest email that he is definitely going though.

I have tried to keep a balanced head and no-one is stopping DS having contact with his father. I have not been keen to support DS cutting contact, hence my first post regarding what do I do, but I am keen to help DS through this in a way that works for him - he is my priority. I have respected his wishes and tried hard not to add fuel to the fire, but his father's blog has brought alot of additional areas to think about, including PR.

His father and I did get on until I had to break the news that DS didn't want to go and stay with him last weekend. DS has spoken to other people too - there are alot of details missing from my posts but that are probably relevant. One of them being that when his father told DS he was planning to go to HK (but didn't tell me he'd told him), it took DS 3 days to tell me. In that period, he'd already told a school friend, was reacting at school with emotional upset and his teacher contacted me, plus the parent of his best friend contacted me. We are in the midst of the GP referring DS to a Paediatrician/Child Psychologist, so he will have someone completely neutral to talk to.

I am careful to separate my thoughts into those that are appropriate for DS to be aware of and those that are not. DS will disagree me if he feels that way inclined. As to PR, I still feel it isn't in DS's interests for his father to have it and I still feel it is not appropriate to send an 11 year old on a 12 hour flight alone. His father has said in his latest email to DS that he will be coming back to the UK too - so I would support DS seeing him then if he wants to. But, there's also the depression/cutting himself issues, leaving him with other people and attitude towards DS. I want to be confident I am not putting DS in bad situations. With his father leaving, there's an added pressure if you like for me to do right by him.

DS and I are, I guess, angry at the ex for different things. I speak to family and close friends when DS is at school, DS speaks to his friends/me/my parents. I am very conscious of the dangers of influencing him and know he will make his own judgements about people as he gets older.

Phew, that was a long one!

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Bluepenny · 26/05/2012 17:03

I've already found a Child Counsellor locally and would be happy to pay.

I know from previous experience with his father (we went to Relate for a while), that counselling is great until he realised that it meant the truth would out - he soon stopped wanting to go.

I doubt he would agree to pay up for fear of what would come out. It's been about 4 weeks since the GP was referring DS and he did say it would be a slow process, so I think private counselling might be the way to go.

I'll add it to my "To Do" list on Monday, along with phoning the solicitor - it'll kick start me to change my will too, as we moved house nearly 10 years ago and address needs updating!

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thezoobmeister · 26/05/2012 17:07

I really feel for you both. I was in your DS' position when I was a kid - parents separated when I was very young, dad spent long periods abroad and finally moved overseas for good when I was 11. I did a few long flights abroad by myself, long holidays away from my mum etc, which were hard. After all these years I'm still so angry at my dad.

I don't have any advice, but just wanted to say that it is brilliant you are listening to your DS, taking his feelings seriously and fighting his corner. So few adults are able to do that - many others would rejoice that their ex was out of the picture, and ignore their kids feelings. Your DS is lucky to have you.

seaofyou · 26/05/2012 17:43

Blue I stopped talking to my df at 12 yrs old even though under same roof and we left (my mum and I when I was 16yrs old). I did see my dad once when he was really ill at 27yrs old. But since his actions(nothing) after losing my brother it is extremely clear how selfish the man was. He lives abroad since I was 18yrs old.

You are doing the right thing respecting your dc wishes as ds is old enough to know what he wants....I know I was and my mun supported me with what ever I wanted.

Can I ask is ds self harming related to df? Has it come back or got worse?

I would def go down the 'private' route as ds needs help now and psychologists at CAHMS could take yrs...ask CAHMS how far on waiting list is ds first.

seaofyou · 26/05/2012 17:48

PS does df have addiction issues ie alcohol...does his moods swing? I suspect mental health illness hear? Bi Polar? Sorry if I am off topic/track with this!

Bluepenny · 26/05/2012 18:43

Zoobmeister - thank you for sharing your experience and your support. My biggest fear is DS growng up with this event being an issue still, either an obvious one or one that comes out in another way and then has to dig down and back to sort it. I wouldn't want that for him and sharing your story makes me even more determined to get this right and worked through.

DS hasn't really talked about his father today and then just appeared 10 mins ago and when he wants to tell me something that he isn't sure how I will take, he says "I've been thinking" and sits down and then continues. He has just taken me through his "Fors" and "Againsts" for seeing his father next weekend - several on the againsts and nothing in the Fors at all - and he has said he doesn't want to go. I've said ok if you are sure.

We have chatted about how to tell his father this and I've asked him to think about telling his father in an email - perhaps in the reply to the one last night (still unreplied to). He is trying to protect me from his Dad now - he said that if I tell him his father will probably blog horrible things about me again. I've told him that is ok and not to worry about that, the important thing is his decision and what he feels comfortable with.

Seaofyou - you have given me so much through your posts and I can't thank you enough. I am sorry to hear of your experience and the sad loss of your brother too.

It is his father that self harms, not DS thankfully. I don't think his father has any addictions - the depression and how he feels about himself may stem from incidents to do with his father when he was younger (one of his first blogs if you still have the link and want to read!). I know his father was also bullied at school and was very much a loner as a child, though he has a sibling. Much points to situational depression rather than ongoing mental health issues. But once he gets a bee in his bonnet about something, he does become obssessed and won't let it go, however daft he looks. This is how he breaks relationships, friendships and so on.

Both his father and I had stable upbringings I would say - our respective parents both celebrated their 50th wedding anniversaries earlier this year and remain happy as couples and supportive parents and grandparents.

Must do dinner now!

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seaofyou · 26/05/2012 19:07

Phew I am so glad it is not your ds...but this man has clear mental health problems. Is he actually a trained CBT therapist or just recieves CBT? As he worded his blog as if he was a therapist? Hence my reply

I only read the last 3 blog pages as didnt have all night lol! So no idea re ex df. You think he would want to break the cycle and try and be a happy df for ds....ex sounds seriously depressed...which again I said you can't run from yourself will feel the same anywhere in world as it in internal not external. I sensed depression and something from being a father...so my advice was spookily accurate if I say so myself....hope I have not frightened df into facing the real (self) demons he is running away from!

Do you think your ex may be slightly on spectrum...loner, not good socially in school, feels alone in world and has obsessive thoughts and suffers with depression? Or is it purely self esteem issues? The reason I ask because if he does have slight Aspergers etc he will have 'Theory of Mind' problems and not understand how another person is feeling, thinking...but should be willing to learn what the other person (ds) feels or thinks...

You have supported your ds extremely well this evening and even suggested ds emailing df. Your ds is will actually make a very good CBT therapist as these are some of techniques used :)

Well done on

Bluepenny · 26/05/2012 21:38

He is a Trainer in the office sense - so things like Organisation & Efficiency and Time Management. He trains alot of the Franklin Covey theories/books too - so 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and The 8th Habit - the former where he took the CBT from.

From his blog, he's had lots of bouts of depression - they usually coincide with the breakdown of a relationship and possibly the turning point for wanting to leave the UK was a breakdown in a business relationship (he's freelance and an associate for for a few training companies) - this I took from his blog.

I know his different phases/moods when he comes to collect DS - he comes to our home, I always make him a cup of tea, we usually have 30 minutes of 3 way conversation - updating on what DS has done during the last fortnight, homework to be done whilst he's with his father, awards DS has gotten from school, social activities, sleepovers - everything really. I invite him to parents evenings, info evenings for school trips, school plays, etc. I've made every effort every time to include him, welcome him and DS knows we both love him, just not each other. DS has never played one off against the other, we've not had Dad doing the nice things and Mum doing the horrible or routine things. This is why it's so frustrating to read how he portrays us as not getting on, but it helps his own delusion I suppose.

It is interesting you raise the Aspergers point. DS was diagnosed with HFA/Aspergers 3 years ago, but with help from a superb Family Support Adviser who worked with me and DS to fill in gaps and learn alternative responses, etc, he no longer gets that help. We have a few new problems with writing and processing written questions, but his ability to interact with his peer group is much better. He has learnt humour and how to work out more complex emotions from the spoken word (he can read facial expressions fine).

Whether his father has a bit of it (as they say it is often genetic) I don't know. It's certainly not as obvious as DS's was and I never felt there was anything odd/different during our relationship. What happened there was as my career took off I had to go on an overnight trip with a bunch of colleagues - this apparently constituted having an affair. He turned up at my reflexologists house to accuse me of having an affair with her husband. He turned up at my office shouting the same. At Relate, we did get as far as his accusations were based on the fact he had had an affair during his first marriage and as he'd continued/covered it up for 3 years I think, it was therefore easy to do and I must have been doing it as I was not getting home when I said I would (but was keeping him updated). He became obssessed about it, but it couldn't have been further from the truth but he would just not believe me. He wouldn't come to Relate when he knew the session was going to turn to the relationship with his father - there is something there that he won't face and the only thing I could think of is what he has already blogged about - seeing his father hit his mother due to not taking his insulin (diabetic). He is pretty awful at ackowledging what is said - a typical thinking of his reply before someone else stops speaking. But he does understand and think of others' feelings - I've seen him do it amongst those he doesn't have an issue with. It crashes down when he has a belief that nothing can shift.That's my experience anyway. He is nice as pie to me infront of others and well versed in pretence.

Being a father - you are spookily on the money here too I suspect. I found I was expecting in the middle of us splitting up. I had been told at age 20 I couldn't have children and at 32 to find myself in this position was a shock to say the least! XP was clear - he wanted rid of it and did not want to be a Dad, he kept saying he didn't know how to be a father. Ultimately and selfishly, I wanted to continue with the pregnancy and in reality, it was at about 7 months gone that I knew I would have a child as was very ill and had problems carrying. XP and I chatted at length after all the initial upset and he wanted to be supportive - he attended scans, ante natal, maternity ward visit and was there at the birth. We nearly lost DS at that point due to a hospital error (they did apologise, different story), so when I was rushed into theatre, XP was left completely alone not really knowing if either I or DS would come out of it, or 1 of us, or neither of us. XP was most scared he'd be left with DS and that I wouldn't make it. XP was the first to see and hold DS too. The only complaint I had was having left my house beautifully clean and tidy to go into hospital, I came home to a complete wreck of a place 3 days later!!

XP was involved physically and emotionally, they bonded (he stayed for the first week at mine, then second week we went down to stay at his). He has always visited/seen DS like clockwork - never late, never missed a weekend, came to his Christening - even DS's friends birthday parties and a family (both sides) party each year. However, there will be runs of weeks where he seems superficially interested and he is never the first to ask about school hols dates and on Bank Hols weekends never asks if he can have DS the extra night/day. I have stopped offering the latter, as I know the answer already. He also goes through patches of wanting to bring DS back early (only by a couple of hours, so nothing major) and apart from one where I wasn't able to be home on time, I've always been as giving as I can to keep the equilibrium.

My Mum has been on the phone tonight - she said I couldn't have done more than I have for XP and to remind myself that XPs family always say how well I've done and how lovely DS is - polite, friendly, happy, well behaved, etc.

DS hasn't taken my suggestion any further to email his father thus far, but I will check in to see if he's had any further thoughts on the matter later- he's watching a DVD whilst I'm sort of watching Eurovision!

OP posts:
seaofyou · 26/05/2012 22:57

Reading the blog was a bit like reading my ex's blog you see and a lot of bells rang! The breakdown of relationships for me is always a scary time as that is when my ex gets aggressive and blames me even though we have been split up 8 years.
My ds has Aspergers, df not diagnosed but never spoke till 5 and still hand flaps his df a genius and can play music by ear/musician. Specialist in IT. He has another dd who also has Aspergers 3 yrs younger than ds he split from that mum too, but she is too frightened to challenge him and keeps the peace so he sees and supports his dd...but I guess he has bond as was their for first 10 months of dd life. My ex left me when I was pregnant and furious I did not have an abortion...thought I was going to lose ds at 38 weeks but no empathy from ex. He already lives abroad moved the week I was rushed in thought ds was dead as no heart beat. When I contacted ex to let him know ds was ok afterwk in hospital due to weak heart beat ex said foff it's not mine! He too told everyone I was having an affair...he too was projecting his behaviour onto me.
My ex is insanely jealous of his df. His df like me don't put up with his nonsense and do not pussyfoot around him.
Ex has nothing to do with ds now but lets say ds needs counselling after the contact he did have. I never backed down and did what my ex said ie have abortion erc and he has made my life very hard.

Why I am telling you this Blue? It is because i saw ex,ds and me in your thread from start! Little did I know it would be this familiar until now!

Even the time keeping is making me Grin

Although my ex has Aspergers it is not aspergers that causes such hatred in a person...it is a bit worse and I suspect Bi Polar or psychopath disorder in my ex. There is Bi Polar in his family as uncle committed suicide and schizophrenia too.

Your ex cannot even take into consideration his ds AS and realise how difficult it is for his ds to digest all this! Because he possibly too and it is genetic has Aspergers too and no empathy or understanding how it is for ds...The Gestalt therapy was then the right one to suggest as your ex will not even be able to do this...unless taught step by step!

I hope your ex looks up this therapy but ex will not realise he can't do this as it is a missing link! Someone needs to teach him.

Even more so your ds who is bright and definitely knows his own mind will do what he needs to do and his literal factual mind will help him decide the best route to take.

Just carry on as you have been doing being a fantastic, loving mum x

Bluepenny · 27/05/2012 07:36

My goodness, there are so many parallels, I've stopping counting! Including the one about XP's father standing up to DS's father - there have been 2 occasions that I know of where XP's father has taken a stand - one being XP's affair in his first marriage - this led to XP not speaking to his parents for several years.

I don't know of any others in XP's wider family with either Bi-Polar or psychopathic disorder, but then they are not close and I only met all of them once at a family celebration.

I sound very similar to your XP's DD's Mum - although I'm not frightened of him, I do what I can to keep the peace for DS's benefit.

Interestingly, XP would not accept DS's diagnosis (he came to the first Consultant appt and witnessed everything that led to diagnosis) - at the time the Family Support Adviser said fathers often can't believe their child is nothing but perfect and to give it time. DS hates the way his father takes the mickey out of him - he doesn't find it funny/doesn't understand it - DS takes things literally and I have to go back over these things when XP isn't around to explain and comfort DS.

I would dearly like to know how XP reacted to your blog post about Gestalt theory and if he did anything about it, but suspect I never will.

It is good to have some light shed on his behaviour though and will be less frustrating knowing it's a condition rather than just him being selfish.

I wonder what today will bring, other than gardening and grass cutting! XP has been unusually quiet on his social media page, but then it is a Grand Prix weekend!

Thank you Seaofyou - spookily similar indeed! x

OP posts:
seaofyou · 27/05/2012 09:51

I do think he has Aspergers I really do and that is why he cannot understand what ds is going through as he was never taught social skills etc he is also selfish on top which is not Aspergers as otherwise he would try to understand.

My ex was divorced by first wife for having gone off with someone else...forgot to mention that...and ex left me for his DD mother when pregnant too. He was meeting other women behind her back too...this is not aspergers this is selfish cheating dickhead who thinks women worship him esp as a Pagan High Priest...anything to sound important hey (delusional 40yr old). His relationship have got lesser each time and he is now living alone maybe he will purchase an overseas bride too?

It won't last and ex will go from woman to woman in HK. He has said to much on his blog now and feels he has trapped himself in going to HK. I loved the bit where he said...it seems so real now I now have the visa (terrified more like). The man can't face his own demons(self) and that is why he can't do counselling and is running away. I hope what I wrote was food for thought for him but I bet he got mad as I challenged his behaviour and Ego and he deletes it!

Sad for your ds as 11yrs old has bonded with df, as this man is totally self absorbed on the boarder of psychopathy without the behaviour (so one trait only so not psychopath). I suggest you read Robert Hare's book 'without conscience' you will know if this is ex? But then again you have always passivised ex and this your first standing up to ex to support your ds as ex is totally out of order...I do wonder if his attitude will be 'ok ds won't do what I want I will just chuck our relationship away' and disappear? If he does this is a psychopathic trait treating people as object and throwing them away...walking out of their lives.

But if he was that way enclined he would have emotionally abused and controlled you all these years and he has not done that to you? So no need to think of a personality disorder here thankfully.

Just keep reminding ex he needs to understand how ds feels. It would be good if ds could do a letter but I think counselling is actually needed first before ds does this letter. I am glad you found ds a therapist, make sure they know about AS to ensure communication is clear ESP due to literal taking on things.

Have great day in the sun whilst it lasts!

Bluepenny · 27/05/2012 11:05

More interesting points you have made with more similarities! When XP and I met, he used to go from woman to woman, but he made of point of telling me he'd been single for 6 months (we met through work). I thought nothing of it - he chased me for a long time and the flattery got him what he wanted eventually!!

There were a few things that happened along the way that were 'odd' at the time, but I brushed those off. Going through old bags of stuff at my house unbeknown to me until he found something he didn't like and threw a tantrum. He was suspicious that when I moved down to live with him, I didn't move all my stuff - practically it wasn't possible - we'd agreed to rent together and I kept my mortgaged property. He also gave me a book to read called 'Are you the one for me' - he wanted me to highlight anything that was in the "Beware" category.

He treated me wonderfully - so thoughtful with surprise weekends away, driving up to join in my work leaving party and so I could have a drink. Always phoned when he said he would. However, looking back alot of this might be construed as control and a friend did comment that she found it unhealthy how he wanted to be with me/know everything all the time and went out of his way to do that. He has written a blog on this stuff (not directly related to me) but why he thinks he did it.

Opposing his views and offering alternative suggestions or not showing enough initiative/thoughtfulness back brought out his other side. Shouting, telling me I was wrong, forcing his views down my throat until I agreed. It was easier to. Sadly I am finding out from DS that history has repeated himself with XP doing it to him - so yes, some emotional abuse in there. Telling DS to "Shut Up" or "Go Away" seems to be a recurring response that DS has been on the end of.

Ha ha - I've said to myself all along, he's worked his way through UK women and there are none left so it's overseas he must go!! He's on his second woman in HK in less than a year. She has a DD the same age as DS - I forsee this becoming an issue early on for his relationship. But none of my business.

I've definitely let many things go that I could or should have brought up with XP about DS. This is the first time that I can't do that. XP is very good at saying as little as possible about anything to me and my antennae is always suspicious he is hiding stuff (not necessarily from me, but just generally). He does this with his family too - his own world that no-one is allowed to know all bits of it, unless of course he feels he can control you within it. He choses to live where no-one knows him, no roots (always rents) and his blog about being single, his self constructed isolation and loss of a relationship and what looks to be a significant business relationship, culminated in him saying he hated his life and brought on depression. I think he controls DS and leaves it at that, as he knows he can't do it to me - when he did try that it ended up with him cutting arms, throwing a knife at me (he missed), grabbing the phone off of me and throwing it against a wall (as I tried to call for help).Then threatening suicide and running off to get razor blades, but he collapsed in a pile of tears and just cried. All cries for help? No, he still wouldn't get any.

His light came from his old best friend (pompous, childless, arrogant and frankly the biggest ego I've ever come across!) who live and works in HK - a holiday there to renew their lost friendship has resulted in XP thinking the grass is greener, or a new life will change all the personal stuff (we know it won't). So he advertised on a dating site over there!

I have a horrible feeling XP will just do the disappear and let his relationship go on the one hand. On the other, he will not want to be seen like that (pretentious) by his new GF or those he takes advice from. His sister is someone I know he talks to - she ironically has a degree in Psychology but I'm not sure if she works in the mental health area (defo NHS though). So he may keep things up to keep the outside looking good (which I think he's been doing for along time in alot of respects).

I've emailed the lady for counselling and explained DS and Aspie, XP and mental health probs, the emigration and DS's change of behaviour. Hopefully something will progress there quickly. DS has written stuff down - it's phrases rather than a letter. DS keeps using a garden cane to swipe my shrubs and tree branches - I've asked him what he thinks about when doing this and he keeps saying "nothing". I am sure this is a sign of something - anger? He also wants to be active, whereas he's not normally like that, he's very much a bookworm or model maker or film watcher or game player - suddenly he is not doing so much of that.

Thanks for the heads up on the book - looks very interesting just from the synopsis and reviews, will defo get that.

Back to the garden and sunshine! x

OP posts:
Bluepenny · 27/05/2012 16:35

Update - I've heard back from the counsellor and she has suggested a family session, to give a safe space for DS to say how he feels to his Dad. DS has agreed to this, so I phoned his Dad and left a message on his ansaphone to call me.

He's ignoring me as he's adding to his social media page and there's enough information to know he is at home!!

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seaofyou · 27/05/2012 18:14

If ds is happy for this then support the brave lil man. He may bring up about the blog and his df aggressive and disrespectival attitude to you Blue. Which is fine...I think it will be df who will find it hard!

The self harming is a mystery ? Has df done this for many years? Was he abused as a child? Could it be a personality disorder of some kind? Counselling often exasibates PDs (ASPD aka psychopath).

This will help ds to have his safe place to open up and let it out. Encourage ds to draw paint his feelings maybe it will help him to describe his emotions at the sessions.

It will be far easier for ds to talk as it is difficult to write it down (sorry didn't know about AS when I suggested writing ds a letter) as not objects but very abstract and difficult for our kids to do this.

There is more to this as you open up Blue he was very abusive and controlling in the relationship. His behaviour is very aggressive and impulsive....again see Robert Hare book.

It's really funny to read but won't bore you with anymore of my ex's details but yes this what else you describe re friend etc is same!

Bluepenny · 27/05/2012 19:23

His Dad has phoned me back and agreed to attend the family session too, so just a case of waiting to hear back from the Counsellor for arranging a day and time.

Yes, it's carte blanche for DS and he seems quite keen to do it, asking when we are going. Certainly seems ready to let it all out, but checked again that XP wouldn't be able to shout at him or tell him off. I re-assured him that would not happen and that XP by coming, is agreeing to listen.

The blog is bound to come up - the Visa news, reasons for going to HK, writing about DS (and possibly me) - all things DS has been or is angry about.

I read some stuff on Emotional Manipulation today and this describes XP so well it's quite scary. Even his email to DS is done in the same vein (acknowledgement but poor me).

Oddly, DS has done some drawings recently (he never draws). He has also written some stuff on his iPad. He has done alot of painting of his models this past week (but then we did go to Hobbycraft to stock up on paints, so probably linked to that more than XP situation).

The self-harming - again doing a bit of reading and remembering the triggers and how he felt when he did it when we were together - he said it made him feel better - it releases the psychological pain as a coping mechanism when the emotions can't be coped with. It can be linked to serotonin issues - the same with depression. XP first self-harmed about 14/15 yrs old - there could be more to the story with his own father and emotional abuse is a possibility from that angle.

Yes, I broke up the relationship because of how he treated me and his refusal to come back to counselling. There is much more to what happened when DS was very young, so on the advice of my Health Visitor, he visited DS at my house weekly and I wouldn't let him take DS out alone. Once I felt DS could speak for himself/wasn't so defenceless, I allowed him to take him for the weekend. Goodness knows what has gone on over the years, but I do wonder because of DS's reactions over the move, whether this is the last straw and the whole lot will come out. I will probably still organise with the Counsellor for DS to have counselling without me or XP present, as there is definitely stuff beyond the move.

OP posts:
seaofyou · 27/05/2012 19:55

A can of worms may open Blue but it has to come out and ds is more than ready and in a safe controlled environment. Ds is frightened of df and I suspect their has been control issues here too.

What you have to do is not try to protect ds if df gets angry let the counsellor do this. You need to let counsellor guide the sessions to show both df and ds where they are at and what needs to happen to work through this.

My ds is awaiting counselling Blue he was abused by his df and I had no idea as ds was non verbal. I am not saying this is what has happened to your ds as there would have been signs before now and flashbacks. Plus my ex great with his DD.

You were so lucky your HV picked up df issues and suggested supervised contact...I was forced by solicitor told it was right thing to do for df and ds...I went to Paed too and again told these aggressive changes in behaviour was ASD I know now it wasn't....my gut instinct was correct.

The low serotonin is common in Aspergers too that is why suicide high risk in this group. Also a bit late to self harm for this trigger but puberty a massive effect on AS also and self harming a common release of frustration and emotions due to not being able to express them due to communication difficulties and feeling misunderstood.

This man has a lot of issues and may need the counselling to continue on his own also a diagnosis may help df come to terms and be more accepting of himself? But this has to come from him. Df is still selfish IMO

Yep my ex and his ex broke up due to fact he refused to go back to counselling...that is now not a surprise everything you say lol!

Hope counselling is soon for ds to off load as sounds desperate to do this.

Bluepenny · 27/05/2012 23:10

Counselling is all arranged for next Saturday and XP has confirmed he will be there. I have emailed some background information just around the move and DS's reactions and the other oddments he has come out with, that make me feel there is more to what DS feels.

Yes, XP can and has been aggressive, how much so with DS is yet to be known. Same with agreeing about the control/manipulation issues too.

I know to my core that XP needs some serious help and has been to counselling more than once - but it's all been relationship issues and I don't think his own issues has been explored or addressed.

I guess I thought by keeping everything friendly with XP for DS's sake and brushing over what I thought were minor issues, there wouldn't be a problem. Little did I think a big event like XPs move would bring up what it has.

LOL at another similarity!

DS is keen for the session next weekend, but is needing lots of assurances that XP won't and can't give him a hard time/shout at him/turn things around to make DS feel wrong. I have given these and am hopeful we'll all make some progress.

XP has remained quiet on his blog and social media page on the subject too, so maybe your (and others) comments has given him food for thought - I do hope so.

I will keep you posted!

OP posts:
seaofyou · 28/05/2012 00:04

I am so pleased for your ds to be able to have this opportunity to express himself openly without the fear of verbal abuse being shouted down. Your ds is terrified but this is also his first time ever talking up to df which can be frightening if never allowed to say anything that df doesn't agree with.

Maybe if you buy ds a notebook with lock on he can start to write little bullet points what he wants to say to df and won't forget if written down and he can keep it locked away safe...not that you would look but maybe their is things he wants to say that he doesn't want you to hear as it may upset you...so he can write it safely in his eyes.

I get the feeling that df may have been working on ds for many years? As the worry df will twist what is said... Sounds like a lot of bullying tactics from df I'm sorry to say.

Try and keep ds week stress free, I am guessing ds is very stressed and needs to keep busy as anxious and can't concentrate on things he normally enjoys but takes a fair bit of concentration...fresh air...walks good idea and feed ducks etc

Encourage arty craft stuff to express self and a fidget ball etc

I am glad this will be sorted before half term hols as nothing worse than waiting the whole week for it and not in school not knowing what to do as so anxious can't concentrate anyway.

Does ds walk to school? Can I suggest he doesn't until after meeting because with head in shed he may forget to look to cross the road. Easy done but just to be safe.

I hope df has looked deep into Gestalt!

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