Does your ex make additional ad-hoc payments to cover things like uniform, school activities etc ?

[nomoreharibo]

Do you get money from your ex for things like the above. ? - do you let him know as and when, or maybe a pot for stuff like this.? im new to all this and thinking that these kind of things are going to add up, above and beyond normal every day living expenses. also shoes, school meals, etc...
i really want to have a clean break as far as possible and support myself and children financially by myself, so that i dont feel like hes controlling me, but dont want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Mine doesn't. I did ask for some money to help out with the costs of an expensive school trip but even though my ex agreed to pay half, the money never materialised. I don't bother asking now.

That's not to say that it's wrong to ask but, with my ex at least, I've found it less stressful in the long run to just assume that I'll pay for it.

Personally I prefer to take the CSA guideline amount and deal with everything else myself. I don't want to go cap in hand (how he would make me feel) for money and depend on his whim.

But I am relitively secure and can cover these costs myself with his £200 a month as a contribution (not a huge one, given that childcare alone is £360)

If the two of you can communicate openly and he is reasonable, then better than the CSA guideline would be ato sit down and lay out costs on paper and decide a fair amount of contribution. Spread larger payments out throughout the year. Or agree on a split.

But be aware that he could pull out at any time and revert to CSA amount so I wouldn't rely on it.

My ex used to pay his CSA amount plus half of all childcare, but ditched it when he decided to save for a mortgage. At that time I found £200 to be on the nose for half of her other costs while she was with me.

Once, in the past 8 years. And that was back when he wasn't paying any proper child support.

I've never asked or expected it though really - the CSA amount is calculated to be what he can afford towards their costs and I've always assumed as I got this (as well as child benefit and tax credits) that I should pay for these sorts of one offs.

If you get the CSA amount - no more, no less - there's also a lot less scope for either of you to change your mind, mess the other one around, or argue over what should be paid for. imo it's the best thing to do if you want to get the finances agreed and get on with your life. You can always pay some of the child support you get into a savings account to cover one offs like school trips if it helps you budget.

No, mine doesn't.
He's complained in the past about paying half for dd's passport although she goes away with them just as much as us. The next one she needs he'll have to cough up for.
School trips etc in the future I'll be asking him for half the money, who knows if it'll be forthcoming?!

I pay more than the CSA, make a contribution to childcare on top of that and if I have any money left ( rare ) will offer to share one off costs here and there .

But in my case, despite earning a decent wage, after CM, rent, council tax, running a car, utilities, food, travel blah blah blah there isn't much if anything left at the end of the month.

If it helps to get another perpective, my DH pays his ex the 15% of net income, minus the days he has her. He doesn't give any more to his ex for extras but he pays for thie DD's mobile phone (£30), laptop (£15 on HP) and her pocket money which is £40 a month. Which inadvertantly helps his ex out as she doesn't have to cover these costs but doesn't actually have to ask him for money.

All in all equals £485. (though not enough apparently )

The CSA payment is designed to be the NRP contribution to all those things, isn't it?

As far as I understand it, the idea of the CSA is that one parent (the RP) takes on financial responsibility for the child, and the NRP contributes a proportion of their earnings towards the costs incurred.

It is up to the RP to choose how they manage the overall budget with that in mind - if the DC's need uniform, shoes etc, then that needs to be taken into account and budgeted for in advance.

One thing I would suggest is that you avoid relying on CM to cover housing costs (rent/mortgage). If the circumstances of the NRP change, then CM may significantly reduce or stop all together - and if you have no wriggle room to cut back on non-essentials (Sky TV, holidays, kids clubs) then you may find yourself unable to meet your mortgage repayments and both the DC's households are plunged into poverty.

Mine doesn't. I have asked him to go halves with activities and school trips as his CM barely covers childcare and he always agrees to but it never materialises.

Remember that the CSA contribution is the MINIMUM a NRP has to pay & doesn't anywhere near cover the costs of bringing up a child. A decent NRP would pay more for non essentials but you can't demand it.

No. I get the CSA payment, that's it. I've never asked for anything else. Before that was in place, ex used to pay a much smaller amount and before DS started school he magnanimously advised that he would of course help out with the cost of uniform. DS's school doesn't have uniform! He never offered to contribute towards everyday clothes.

RedHelenB, it entirely depends on how much 15/20% is. It is actually often more than enough. My ex earns under 30k and his CM is reduced for the three days he has her every other week and yet it is still £200 a month. If you take chidcare costs out of the equation, £400 is more than enough to support my DD once you've added my half. Personally I know for a fact that I don't spend more than 15% of my take home on my DD (other than childcare which is something I feel should be plit between both parents as it is a cost over and above normal maintenance of the child)

I dont know where this "MINIMUM" business comes from, so many people quote it but not sure.. okay it is the amount that is enforced by law so I suppose yes it is the minimum, technically... but what is to suggest it should be more?

It's not the mimimum any more than it's the maximum - the government has always made it quite clear that parents are negotiate either more or less if they want. You're not obliged to take any money off your ex if you don't want to, and he's free to pay you as much as he likes, or to offer for extras if he wants. In many cases it isn't enough to cover even half the costs of bringing up a child - but in those cases if you own income is similarly low you'll get income support or tax credits which cover an amount for each child.

The CSA amount is simply the amount that if you can't agree then the government will compel the NRP to pay. They won't compel him to pay for any of the 'extras' though as these are considered either to be the responsibility of the RP, or non-essential.

Agreed. I would say that if your ex's income is so low that 15 or 20% of it doesn't cover half of the cost of your child/ren, then it similarly wouldn't have covered half of the cost if you were still with them. You would either have to front up more cash yourself, or fall back on benefits - which is still the case when you are seperated.

Crucially, I think people forget that if you struggled as a couple, you will struggle further when there are two homes to support.

What is really shitty if when you have NRPs with self employed income who actualy don't give their 15/20% - there is no excuse for hiding money that shouldbe going to your children.

A decent NRP would pay more for non essentials but you can't demand it.

I agree, a decent NRP (who has the means to do so) will pay for non-essentials, but they probably won't delegate the responsibility for selecting and purchasing those non-essentials to the RP. They are likely to decide for themselves what non-essentials their DC would benefit from and spend their money on their DC's in the way they choose.

A decent RP will respect that - after all, a decent NRP is likely to be equally capable of making those decisions, aren't they?

We didn't give extra monies to BM when she had DSD but we bought the school shoes and coats etc as we previously had given cash to find DSD never got new or the school trip etc we now have DSD full time and she can't even give the £5 a week the CSA said

What is really shitty if when you have NRPs with self employed income who actually don't give their 15/20% - there is no excuse for hiding money that should be going to your children.

Please don't tar all self-employed NRP's with the same brush!

Sometimes, the DC's benefit more if the NRP household takes advantage of the system to retain self employed income.

Consider a purely hypothetical case where there RP chooses to prioritise non-essentials for themselves (gym membership) over essentials for the DC's (school uniform).

It is often the only way of the NRP household being able to ensure that the DC's have what they need. The alternative is to see the DC's go without, as the NRP household is financially stretched due to the size of the CSA payments

I agree that if the NRP household is flush, and the RP household is stretched, then to play the system is unethical, but if the situation is reversed, and the RP has a comfortable lifestyle but the DC's are going without essentials, I think there is a strong case for the NRP to do everything they can to ensure that those needs are met.

No he won't, and I don't get maintenance payments either, although an attachment or earnings should be sorting that out.

What they are saying he should pay doesn't anywhere near cover his half of the cost of bringing dd up though - it barely covers her accommodation needs, and by that I mean the difference between rent on a one bedroom and two bedroom place.

What they are saying he should pay doesn't anywhere near cover his half of the cost of bringing dd up though - it barely covers her accommodation needs, and by that I mean the difference between rent on a one bedroom and two bedroom place.

But if you were still together and he was earning little or nothing, then he still wouldn't be paying "half", would he?

There is no expectation that separated parents both contribute the same amount towards their DC's - the NRP contributes a proportion of their income based on a calculation that takes into account the need for them to house/support themselves independently of the RP household, and other factors like how many other DC's they support and how often their DC's spend overnight with them.

The RP can then choose how to budget however they want to - whether to go out to work or rely on benefits, what housing to provide for themselves and their DC's, and how much of their own income they to use to pay for the DC's needs and wants.

My ex pays his £300 towards his share of the mortgage to maintain his equity in our shared house.

He pays zippo else - hard up allegedly.

He hurts and pisses me off like hell that he rents a 4 bedroomed house, for his woman and her two kids, has bought them trampolines and swings and new beds , feeds, them clothes them and provides everything else for them but finds supporting his own kids impossible.

Oh to get anything for the DCs.

I wouldn't be able to receive benefits, that's not a choice for me or really one I would opt for. He has as much money in reserve as I do, and earns more.

All I want is to share the cost with him of raising dd, nothing more than what's fair, and nothing that he isn't able to afford to do. I don't feel that's unreasonable. But if I matched the 15% of his salary penny for penny, it still wouldn't cover the cost of raising dd.

I think there's a lot of expectation that the cost is shared. Many people seem to feel that whatever the NRP is assessed as needing to pay by the CSA, that should be matched by the RP. I'm not sure that's always workable - but in my case it is, it's just that with both of us paying the same amount it still isn't enough to cover all costs. It's not necessarily going to be the same for everyone - we all have different outgoings and housing costs. But for me it's the case and I'm not particularly extravagent.

Nadm, agree with your response about the self employed income. I didn't think of that situation.
The "non essentials" business... A NRP should be able to buy these themselves if they want to, it shouldn't be that they see expected to give money to rp to buy them - I can't imagine a situation where I would ask my ex for money to buy our dd luxuries, that's his business if he wants to/can afford to.

I get less than the CSA percentage and nothing else and I buy everything and pay for all childcare costs pocket money, school trips etc. The big issue has to be costs of childcare though, in many cases these are bigger than the contribution from the NRP.

When childcare costs so both parents can work are considerably more than CM in the first place, it is hardly ever a fair deal for lone parents. This is the real elephant in the room regarding child support. You only have to look at the statistics on poverty and lone parenting.

I could never understand why childcare isn't required from the NRP, I guess it would be too complicated. When I was on my own I got tax credits which paid for 80% of my childcare so I used to ask my ex for half of what was left... that seemed fair as it is so entirely seperate from normal maintenance of a child.

When I moved in with my partner I lost all tax credits and my childcare bill was near on £1000 a month! So the £200 I recieved from my ex (whilst plenty to cover half the maintenance costs of our DD) barely skimmed the surface of her total costs. And he refused to pay anything towards it because he was saving for a deposit for a house. Basically my new DP had to my my share of the rent so I could cover childcare costs. He didn't mind one jot but it left me in a more dependant position than I wanted to be in.

I generally think that the 15/20% is a good yard stick for what should be paid in CM as I do think it is roughly that percentage of your net wages that people spend on maintaining a child each month. But Child care costs are very seperate from that.

My ex actually said to me once "you're her Mum, you should be at home with her, if you choose to work, that's not my fault"

He still doesnt pay anything towards childcare but she's at school now and the £360 isn't quite such a burden for me. I often wonder why I don't insist he pays for childcare on "his" days though. i.e. on a Wednesday he doesnt pay me any CM (it's pro-rated) yet by the time he "gets her" shes had 4 hours of childcare paid for by me, and three meals.. surely he should have to pay for childcare on that day?

Ho hum, sleeping dogs and all that.

I can see your point about childcare costs but I do think it would open up a huge can of worms. I could see a lot of NRPs saying that they'll do the childcare rather than pay for it and then them being all flaky and unreliable so making it impossible for the RP to be able to go out to work.

Hmm, true. It would be helpful if NRPs realised that it was reasonable and just paid for half of it... or did the care themselves [flys back off to cookooland]

Annoyingly my ex often doesnt use the childcare I've paid for on a Wednesday because it's more convenient to get DD from school while he's in the area... but he is adamant that he can't commit to doing it every week so I have to pay for childcare to keep the place open He hasn't once uesd it this year and it costs me £20 a week!