would you send one DC without the other for a weekend visit?

[mistressmiggins]

my DCs are nearly 10 and 7. Their dad lives 3 hrs away and they go to stay every 3 weeks. Unfortunately DS(10) has kayaking training every Sat night for next 3 weeks and he is desperate to go. Ex has known this was coming up and we were going to try to work round it. Unfortunately we were only told last Wed (cubs) and so I offered weekend just gone as a swap acknowledging it was short notice or said could Ex come for day visit next weekend as a one-off.

He has decided he still wants to have DD by herself. I know DS is gutted that he wont come for the day so he can see him. DD is now saying she doesnt want to go by herself and has gone very quiet.

Is it unreasonable to say he has to just have a day visit so he can spend time with both his children? If he doesn't, DS wont see him for 6 weeks.

I think that your DD needs to learn that she must go to her father's house and manage on her own there from time to time without her brother. And I think that you need to have a positive attitude to that - you need to big up the excitement of her going on her own rather than be worried or anxious.

My DD's best friend (7) went on her own to Shanghai for a fortnight to visit her father, without her twin brother and sister (4). She had a wonderful time!

I have dd 12 and ds 7. dd is very ambivalent about seeing her dad. Although he lives nearby and it's not an issue in the same way she would certainly not want to go away to spend time with him unless there was something special on offer! This is because she remembers the times she has been hurt (emotionally) and let down by him over the last 10 years, whereas ds has less of that memory.

As they get older and have more weekend activities etc I am not at all surprised they are willing to forego visiting the 'distant' parent, in fact I am astonished that any of these shared custody arrangements work when there are teens involved with their own agendas!

I am always positive about their Dad and going to stay.
I'm not anxious or worried and definitely never show it.

I do not think you should force her to go, and I do not think you should let him drag her kicking and screaming into the car. She is obviously distressed about this although it happened 2 years ago (and why shouldn't she be?)

I think you should try and persuade her to go because it might be that she enjoys it when she gets there, but don't force her, if she really doesn't want to.

Bonsoir - as usual, you can only think of this from your pov - sod what's best for the children, as long as the NRP & his partner get what they want, that's all that matters.

He chose to move away - why should the kids suffer (even more) because of that? He knows where they live if he wants to see them. It is grossly unfair that they miss out on their life (friends parties, sports etc) because he moved away - it's ridiculous.

I'm inclined to agree with Bonsoir on this. Ds at 10 is old enough to understand that if he chooses to do kayaking - and why shouldn't he - then he doesn't go to dads. No reason why dd and dad have to change all plans. I think that it might be a very good chance for dd to spend time with her dad on her own.
Not necessarily in this case, but sometimes I read things on here, and hear things from friends in rl and it makes me think that children whose parents have separated get too much say in decisions, and are too involved in how things are worked out. It strikes me that in "together families" it is much more normal for them to be told what is happening, rather than asked what they'd like to happen. Much less burden of responsibility on young shoulders and what kids want isn't always what they need.

Being carried kicking and screaming to the car was obviously distressing for your DD - shame that your ex did this. But you can prevent it in the future by making sure that you and he are in agreement about whether she should go. If he says that he does want to take her on her own, then make it clear to her that that is what is happening, reassure her that it will be OK, etc. There are days when kids don't feel like going to school, but as parents we make them - and it doesn't involve carrying kicking and screaming to the car. If you just tell her firmly and clearly that it'll be fine and offer to ring her when she gets there, etc - you would remove the risk of a real confrontation which would be far more damaging than a weekend on her own with her dad.

I've been having difficulties with the DCs not wanting to go to their ExP over the last month. I find it helpful to think about what would your actions be to your child not wanting to goto school for similar reasons of simply not enjoying it. The benifits of seeing the other parent may not be evident to the child, just as the benifits of being at school as compared with being at home. But we believe it's in the childs interest that they will benefit from going even if they don't always enjoy it.

I can't physically force my children either to the Ex or to school, I have to convince them that they will benefit from it. Therefore, if the children show signs of distress going to either the Ex's or school, I have to discuss these issues with either school or the Ex, in order that the child is emotionally OK. Alas I find the business and formal relationship between myself and school far more productive with such issues than taking about such issues with my Ex. sigh

Sorry that should have read 'the ExP' instead of 'their ExP'

the op has said discussing the issues with ex will cause an argument.

clearly there are issues between dd and her father. she ahs bad memories of being draged kicking and screaming...

it is up to dad to make dd comfortable with going - surely he should be the one telling her via phone or skype what a great time they will have?

otoh the op could say - right now you dont have a choice. when you older, you will.

2blessed the 7 year old DD wasn't asked if she wanted to go, on being told she was going she said she didn't want to go to her Dad's without her brother. Frankly, if in the 5.5 years since he left, he hasn't made his home somewhere she wants to be, then he's the one that needs to sort that out, not a 7 year old child. She doesn't trust her Dad - he needs to work on that and forcing her to go again when she doesn't want to, really isn't going to help their relationship at all. It wont be a weekend on her own with her Dad either - it will be a weekend with her Dad's partner and their baby.

The Dad chose to go and live that far away, he needs to learn that sometimes he will need to make compromises and not always the children. The children are already missing out on seeing their friends, going to parties etc so that he can see them - he should compromise and come to his son when his son can't go to him.

whiteandnerdy - that's the thing isn't it, at least the school's are generally willing to listen to what the problem is and not just shout you down :(

chipping - thats how I feel. Why doesnt she feel comfortable or keen to go to his home?

At the moment it does feel like I am constantly asking the DCs to compromise. They frequently miss parties and activities (DS is missing cub camp in April) as exH wont budge. He has known this kayaking was coming up and previously said he would come up for the day. Now he has changed his mind.
I cant discuss things with him as he just shouts down the phone at me.

We forget that children dont have a choice in their parents splitting. We havent moved and are still living in the family home (I increased my mortgage to pay him his share b4 anyone jumps on that bandwagon) He has moved 3 hrs away so that he lives 5 mins from work. He could have moved nearer to his children and commuted a little like so many of us (including myself and DH who drives over an hour to work daily)

DS has already started asking if he can stop going once he hits 12. I have a 14 yr old SD who wont stay anymore so we drive to see her for a few hours when it suits her. We are OK with that. I have explained that it would make Dad sad if DS stopped going. This is why I feel exH should compromise this time to show its about give & take on both sides.

"I have explained that it would make Dad sad if DS stopped going." - I don't quite understand what your saying here but it does this sound worrying? From you post it sounds like you maybe making your child responsible for the feelings of the adult parent. My goodness whats child want's to be responsible for the feelings of the adult ?!?! Again I didn't quite understand the who's who of your last post.

The hardest thing about posting on MN is that I constantly feel I have to prove that I am trying to do the right thing regarding exH and the children.

All I meant was that DS is already asking when HE can choose not to go and I was merely trying to get DS to think how his dad would feel if he stopped seeing him. Thats not wrong is it?

I cant discuss anything with my exH because he just wont listen. If I try to talk to him about the children, he always accuses me of interrogating them or putting ideas in their heads so I have stopped trying to discuss things with him.

agree strongly that the dc are not responsible for the adult's feelings.

raher the adult shld be making it nice and welcoming for the dc

Missing parties and activities is not the end of the world and, while it is eminently desirable for separated couples with children to live within a stone's throw of one another, that is not always possible. Work is a very good reason for moving.

I think you need to de-dramatise a little, OP. I know several families where divorced parents don't even live on the same continent and there isn't this much angst!

Bonsoir - I am not making it into a drama it as you put it. I came on here to ask a question. Some people have been more constructive than others. I dont know your background so dont know whether you speak from experience when saying that the activities my DCS are missing arent the end of the world. Of course they're not but equally its hard on them with circumstances not of their choosing and all I have suggested was maybe this time, exH could be the one to compromise.

I dont see that moving 5 mins from work as opposed to 1hr and 5mins is a good reason. I know plenty of divorced parents who still try to live nearer their children than work so they can see more of them. Im sure the children of divorced parents living on different continents are very pleased they live so far away.

MM :( It's bloody hard isn't it.

I don't think that children should be forced to go if they don't want to - the only problem with that is that it leaves a lot of room for the RP to manipulate the children into not wanting to go - which is clearly wrong as well :(

With the way things are, I think all you can do is empower them to tell their Dad how they each feel.

It would definitely worry me that she doesn't want to go to her Dad's, I would do all I could to get to the bottom of that.

At the moment it does feel like I am constantly asking the DCs to compromise. They frequently miss parties and activities (DS is missing cub camp in April) as exH wont budge. He has known this kayaking was coming up and previously said he would come up for the day. Now he has changed his mind

It's all so wrong isn't it :(

I cant discuss things with him as he just shouts down the phone at me

Charming GIT isn't he. How do you get on with his partner? Is she anymore reasonable? Would he talk with a mediator or anyone else like that?

I think that acess should occur in the child's area - so that they can still go to kayaking/swimming/football/friends parties etc. If the NRP chooses to move away, then they get some of the holidays (at their new home) and weekends when they organise somewhere to stay.

DS has already started asking if he can stop going once he hits 12

He needs to tell his Dad this is what he wants.

Then maybe the selfish git might have to think about his attitude towards his kids.

Have a - it can't possibly be too early!!

"The hardest thing about posting on MN is that I constantly feel I have to prove that I am trying to do the right thing regarding exH and the children." - Hey take heart, I'm aways saying and doing not the quite right thing, almost blindly bumbling around with the complexities of my own feelings and needs with those of my children. It's my personal experiance that writting a few lines of text on Mumsnet is infinitely less difficult to dealing with the reality of being the parent that we all aspire to.

I have read through all the posts on here and wasn't going to reply as its now Monday so presume you had come up with some sort of solution for the weekend.

While MN is good for getting an objective point of view, your DD is emotionally distressed by idea of going alone and is clearly treated differently to your DS. Is there anyway of discussing your DD's concerns with Ex? By email or something? Agree that the children need to negotiate their own relationship but, like previous posters have said, if it were school you'd raise concerns on their behalf and, even if it did cause an argument between the adults initially, maybe its worth bringing the issue to light?

I do think you are trying to do what's best for your DC regarding their father and its a shame he didn't want to go to the cub thing as (when I was a leader) parents (separated or otherwise) seemed to get alot out of doing an activity like that with their children.

Feel free to disregard my entire opinion but I just thought you were getting rather a hard time on here and am trying to show some support.

Good Luck.

Cross posted with the last two

thanks Chipping
Cant talk to his partner - she really hates me and is abusive down the phone. Last year when they had the kids for a week on holiday, I phoned one night and she asked why I was phoning [shocked] I know who wears the trousers in that relationship! I have to get it in writing that exH will let me phone the DCS while they are on holiday with him.

Am going to think about everything you have all said and see if I can ring him to talk about it properly. If I ring him at work, he will be nicer that if I wait til he gets home.

I DO ensure they go regularly to their dads and dont ask to swap weekends unless something important.

Thanks Ice9116
I agree with the discussion point and the similarity with school is correct BUT like I said, he just wont discuss things.

Ex H wouldn't go on cub camp! He used to alternate weekend stays with a day visit but always refused to take DS to his football practice or match so he used to miss those. He doesn't come to parents evening or even ask how they are doing at school. DS moves schools in Sept and I have made all the choices as ex H just not interested.

Sometimes we need a reality check hence why I felt I needed to ask people on here and am happy with all responses and constructive criticism. Its hard enough being a parent without having to be a divorced one and deal with your ex

I have to get it in writing that exH will let me phone the DCS while they are on holiday with him

Jesus wept. It's shit like that, that makes running away to the other side of the world seem appealing.

If that's their attitude, it's no wonder the kids don't like being with them. Nasty bastards.

Good luck tomorrow
x

I'm with Bonsoir - missing parties and activities is not the end of the world - sometimes they just cant be accommodated. When parents split up, there are consequences for all involved. Two houses have to be maintained, etc and additional costs of transport and time too. Sometimes kids have to miss out on school activities too. That's life.
And siblings do not come as a package.