Any advice on access arrangements?

[PinkPeanuts]

Hi All,

I'm due to give birth in around two weeks time and wondered if you could give me some advice on arranging access, as my child's father and I are no longer together. We tend not to get on and although things are amicable between us at this moment in time, I cannot guarantee that it is going to stay that way for long hence why I need something in place.

He is an extremely irrational person who has anger management issues and will not like being told what to do. Still, before having to go the legal route, I think I should try to work out an arrangement. Do any of you ladies have experience of doing this?

I can't imagine what sort of state I may be in after giving birth, being sleep deprived and trying to establish a routine as a first time mum so initially I'm thinking 1 hour twice a week while she's still a newborn with a view to stepping it up if that works out. It would be set times in the evening (that way I won't be on my own with him, I don't trust his temper) on specific days. I am already dreading approaching this because he is the sort of person who will think he should be allowed to see her as and when he feels but the reality is that we just don't have that sort of relationship, he has given zero support through this pregnancy and I just know that if I don't take control of this situation, it will be chaos.

Any pearls of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

This is the last thing you need when you're preparing to give birth isn't it? Is this your first one?

If he really is that irrational, are you planning on being present when he has access to baby? Will he be with others-his parents/siblings etc? I would be quite concerned about leaving him alone with a baby if he has anger issues. Obviously you know him best, I'm just curious. I would think trying to sort it out in a civil matter face to face asap would be the first step. If that fails then you need to get a solicitor involved sharpish, even if it means he goes off on one for a bit. Do you think he'd be one to stick to routine for the future if you allow baby to stay with him longer than the hour or so? Have you sorted out any child support?

I think it's fab that you recognise the baby's right to know dad even if he is a total dweeb like this one sounds (if I may be so personal!).

Wish you a swift labour! x

Hello. I am not a lady...... but hopefully can offer some reasonable advice.

First off. Good luck with the birth. Soon you'll have a lovely little person who will be the love of your life.

Something that will be worth it's weight in gold is if you can continue to remain on amicable-ish terms with the baby's dad. It is no easy task, but the alternative makes life harder ( and quite possibly more expensive ) for everybody ) . A large part of it is in knowing how to deal with a difficult XP, Olympian levels of tongue biting and knowing which battles are worth fighting ( i.e. pick your fights ) .

I can almost guarantee one thing. If you say to your XP ' you can only see dc 2 hours a week' , his perception rightly or wrongly, will likely be that you are blocking his access to his dc.

If I said to you directly after giving birth, 'Ms Pink Peanuts, I will allow you to see your child for two hours a week hence forth ' ... I would expect a massive amount of protest and anger from you. He may not have stepped up to the mark during the pregnancy, but he is still the child's father and will likely take that fact as a basis of his expectation even if his actions don't match the reality.

Of course he may be a knob who only wants to see his child two hours a week. But if you tell him it's two hours a week, as opposed to him asking for two hours a week the friction is likely to increase.

I know there are other considerations here, I'm simply trying to give you a heads up on what kind of response you're likely to provoke if you offer a father two hours a week with his child. If he's irrational with a temper it's likely to be even more volatile, and more likely to go the legal route.

It might be a good idea to ask him at the outset how much time he expects / wants with the child now and in the future. This question may be better prefaced with some sort of conversation about what is best for a small baby. Routine, feeding, sleeping, clothing, cleaning, security etc etc. And how access can increase as the child gets older.

Him seeing dc 'as and when he feels' isn't reasonable. It's not reasonable now and it still won't be reasonable in 10 years time. It's unfair on you and the child. Somehow you have to convince him of that and find out what kind of schedule he can work out. If he's willing to be a decent father he needs to start taking things on board such as the importance of routine, paying CM and being reliable and supportive.

I suggest you put it to him that there is a level of contact now ( or in a few weeks ) that is dictated by the baby's needs and safety, but as the baby gets older the level and duration of contact will increase until ( assuming he's a step up sort of guy ) he can have the dc for overnights.

My personal opinion ( obviously not knowing you or the XP or all the circumstance ) is that two hours a week is a fairly pathetic amount of time to offer one parent.

Thank you very much for your helpful responses :)

MrGin I see your point about asking him how much time he expects with her. I can be 100% sure that he will never go te legal route and even if he did, he wouldn't win. And to answer your question BorderDancer, he will never be alone with my daughter due to his irrationality. I simply don't trust him.

Two hours a week does seem unfair when put in black and white, I just want to be very clear with him that this is one of those situations he absolutely cannot dictate. He will not care that I need to establish a routine with her or that I will be sleep deprived, he will make it all about him, and I feel like if I don't lay down some ground rules, he will attempt to run riot. I will speak to him first though rather than going in all guns blazing. I just resent the fact that hes shown virtually no support throughout this pregnancy since we split up (I was 9 weeks) but fully expects to swan in and play the doting father.

There is also the issue that all of his access will have to be in the evenings when I am able to have somebody with me as I absolutely will not be on my own with him.

What a difficult situation. Personally I think you are a saint to be giving such consideration for access for a man who's temper scares you so much you are frightened for you or your child to be alone with him. You are right to want that access to be supervised.
I think you're absolutely right to be very clear about expectations from the outset. I think your concerns need to be put in writing though, and you probably should seek legal advice about what is reasonable access in your circumstances. I don't believe in pandering to anyone with anger issues, partly because if you give an inch they'll take a mile. Also because I think it's a form of bullying, and bullies respond less aggressively to someone who's assertive and calm than someone they can walk all over.

Thanks MagicHouse. To be perfectly honest, his temper doesn't scare me, I just don't want it around me or my daughter and you just never know when he's going to kick off. My refusal to pander to him and ability to stand up to him is why I kicked him into touch in the first place and the reason we tend to clash. I don't believe for a second he would hurt my daughter, I just feel the overwhelming need to protect her from negativity. I think I will speak to him about the importance of establishing a routine around her needs first and foremost and if he's not happy with that, then I'll go down the route of laying down ground rules. Unfortunately for him, I am her primary caregiver therefore things have to be done my way.

I would suggest an hour at a time, maybe 3-4 times a week would be good at first, with a view to stepping it up to 2-3 hours at a time maybe twice a week after 6 months or so. If you're planning on breast feeding you won't want him to have the baby more than an hour or so at a time at first, but by 6 months that would be OK.

But unless you think he is unsafe with the baby, it would probably be much better for all of you if you can move as soon as possible to not being around with him when he's with the baby - suggest he takes it out for a walk, park, visit to friends, etc if possible. Or go out yourself and leave him at home with the baby. If you don't want to be alone with him, then it would be much better not to have the stress of being with him at all. And he won't really learn to parent his DC properly unless you start leaving him on his own with it.

"I can be 100% sure that he will never go te legal route and even if he did, he wouldn't win."

Bless you... and wish you the best of luck.

Mr Gin advice is not bad. The key to be able to co-parent together is to avoid frontal confrontation. Especially if he has a history of anger management problems.

The key to successful and amicable co-parenting is to avoid confrontation and discuss everything. This does not work with abusers. Being willing to compromise with an abuser only ever result in them eventually holding all the power and manipulating the resident parent (who is desperate to be considered 'fair') beyond all reasonable limits. The only way to deal with an abuser is to have a long, hard think about what is fair, then make a plan based on it and insist that it is followed.

Agree with sunshine - MrG's advice is fine when dealing with a reasonable and rational person. In this case, however, OP has stated that he is irrational, has anger management issues and she is afraid of being alone with him.

You need to decide on what's fair, it is for you to decide on this in the early days because you will be the one giving birth, breastfeeding and suffering the sleepless nights. You should make absolutely clear from the outset that it is your decision, and don't allow him to deviate from this. I think what you've outlined in your op sounds fine.

MrGIns advice is sound but I think you need to have a plan in place with your supporters for the birth itself

1)is he likely to demand acess to you in labour & then kick off, if so you need to make a plan with the hospital/midwifery staff. They will have seen it before, ask their advice asap.

2. Who is going to be around to help you for his visits? Is it someone who can help you if he gets arsey but in a non confrontational way?

3. Would it be possible for him to meet his daughter once asap after birth, possibly while you are still in hospital with back-up, but then agree to let you rest for a few days in peace before starting the visiting? Again request that from him rather than dictate but if he starts laying down the law, back off & get legal advice.

TBH I would anyway, I can see he might take it the wrong way but you & your daughters well being are paramount.

You are already a loving and lovely mother to encourage your daughters Dad to be involved. Good luck!

Thank you all, you've given me a lot to think about. It's not that I'm scared to be on my own with him, it's that he's less likely to kick off if other people are there so I want all contact to be when my mum or sister can be around. They are more than happy to support me in this.

bossy we already had an almighty row about him wanting to be there while I'm in labour. I absolutely do not want him there. As much as he thinks I'm being selfish, it's just tough. I don't want to be tense and stressed while I give birth.

Hi pinkpeanuts

Your post has been helpful as I am in a slightly similar situation. Although, the BD has been on his best behaviour recently. He has muttered something about not being to empathetic if I am shattered and irritable in the early days of baby's arrival. This was during a mediating discussion and I think he was stubbornly being difficult.
Generally he has been okay, but he has mood swings and can flare up quite quickly. This is made worse as we don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things. I often tip-toe around him, but I'm not sure I'll have the patience when I am taking care of a newborn.
Despite this, I hope you are enjoying your pregnancy; not long to go.

Hi road,

It sounds like we're dealing with very similar people! We tend to see things differently and disagree a lot but the clashes tend to come in because I'm not good at tip toeing around him so we clash if I speak my mind- he's used to shouting people down and getting his own way where as I just won't have it.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you go about the mediation process?

When reading my post back, I realised mediation discussion sounded official- it wasn't. After falling out for the second time our mutual friends intervened so we wouldn't stop talking for months again.

It helped us to establish how we were going to move forward, but he still lost his temper and wasn't listening to reason. We have been amicable since then, but we are yet to have a serious discussion about contact arrangements and child maintenance. I do not intend to involve our friends again- it was his command idea. I think it could get messy and they'll have a conflict of interest. It did work at the time though.

However, if we are unable to remain amicable in the future I would consider professional mediation.

I know what you mean about the shouting. When he loses his temper I outright refuse to argue with him. The last time this happened I didn't say a word. It was frustrating, but I did not want to stress myself out which could affect my baby. I'm still learning how to deal with this situation though. I recently got drawn in to a silly texting argument that was very unnecessary. I ended it by saying we should just agree to disagree as it was a pointless argument- I think he enjoys arguing with me. I am trying to avoid the pitfalls.

Maybe our DC will melt his heart .

Oh and I came across this link

Yes I had to make the decision to avoid confrontation while pregnant for the same reasons so we only just recently have been in contact. Not extensive contact, just strictly necessary conversations really. We're in the difficult situation of having mutual friends/family too but have thankfully managed to keep them out of it.

Thanks for the link, it looks really useful. How long until your baby is due? I hope your pregnancy has been going well :)

RLT

That's kind of what I meant by 'Olympian levels of tongue biting' and choosing which fights are worth fighting.

I point blank refuse to enter into any contentious conversation with my XP in front of dd. And when the temperature raises or the shouting starts I've tended to simply stop responding and suggest, calmly, that we take any issues up via email.

Any off hand comments I simply ignore if they're of no relevance other than to pick a fight because at the end of the day it's about my child and my relationship with her.

I think a fair bit of it is being confident in yourself and not letting someone bully you into having pointless arguments.

I am 31+3 weeks with my first DD. I had really bad morning sickness to begin with, which has eased up to be replaced with heartburn and slight anaemia. It's not as bad as the morning sickness though. I just found it difficult coping alone, but the end is nigh!

She is a big surprise and I think it has taken a long time to come to terms with it all.

I am enjoying my pregnancy more than before and can't wait to meet my DD (team pink ). Although there isn't a lot of pink in her wardrobe so far lol. I am almost as organised as I can be. I do tend to get anxious, so I am trying to have everything ready.

How has it been for you? Do you feel prepared?

Yes MrGin my aim is to reach gold in 'Olympian levels of tongue biting'- nicely put.

:o

I agree, very nicely put MrGin!

road, it seems we have a lot in common! I'm 38+1 with my first DD who was a huge surprise to me too! I had awful morning sickness up to about 18 weeks and have also become anaemic as a result of pregnancy. I have enjoyed pregnancy though, it's been an amazing experience but now the impatience is setting in and I just want to meet the little munchkin lol. I'm as prepared as I can be and can't wait to get stuck into motherhood.

Since we're in the same boat, feel free to send me a PM if you fancy a chat, it's always good to have additional support from other lone parents :)

I agree that 2 hours a week is a pathetic amount of time.
He does need to bond too.
I would offer him an hour a day until the baby is old enough to leave you.
I also think that if you explain to him that it needs to be part of babies routine.
If he is agressive in anyway or tries to control you you can always reduce it (for safetys sake not as a punishment)
If you can both agree on some ground rules early on it will make life easier.
You never know when baby arrives it might be the reality that changes him.
Good luck with the birth Xx

Pink I have sent you a pm.

Swimming 2 hrs a week might seem pathetic long term, but the stress of having an ex around every day at the begining would be far more upsetting for mum & babe I would have thought.

Once the birth is over and routines established maybe every other until trust has been gained but I would hate to have that tension every day whilst trying to establish BF-ing & resting.

It's not as thought the "father" has really been involved if he fucked off at 9weeks gestation, & now expects to be consulted.

I think the OP is being very measured and mature about it all!

I think MrGin gave you excellent advice.

I would also explain to him that you are concerned to agreeing anything for the first few weeks post birth as you will have no idea how things will go etc HOWEVER you fully appreciate that we will be wanting to see the baby and perhaps you could text each other to sort out brief visits every few days until baby settles into some sort of routine.

You can point out that you will be switching the phone off when you get to nap whether it be day or night so to not be cross if you don't respond quickly.

Remember many babies sleep an awful lot of time for the first 6 weeks so it may be a case of him just cuddling his sleeping baby. Ask him what sort of time of day suits him - perhaps after work - he can hold baby whilst you have something to eat, have a shower type of thing.

Anyway just some ideas, bite your tongue, remain very reasonable and hope things pan out. Do you have a gut feeling as to whether the more amenable you are the less he will feel that he has to fight for his rights and get more "bored" of seeing his child? Some people to seem to thrive on conflict!