Ex wants to take DD to France for a holiday.

[LeoTheLateBloomer]

We split up 7 months ago, just before DD's first birthday. Since then she's seen him once or twice a month, generally for a few hours at a time. Today they had the whole day together for the first time.

Over the last few months he's been talking about moving to France. On his last visit it was all off, now it appears to be all on again.

Since he left this evening he's sent a text asking if I would get a passport for her. I've asked what his plan would be and he says he would fly over to pick her up and then bring her back. He didn't state how long he would want her to stay for.

He says he would probably be moving in early spring, so DD would be almost 2 by then.

Now this is a man who changes his mind more often than I change my underwear, so it's by no means definite. However, I need to prepare myself just in case. I'm feeling really uncomfortable about it. In previous conversations about him living there we've mentioned me taking DD over there rather than her being there without me.

I can't bear the idea of not being in the same country as her when she's still so young. She's never spent a night with him; the only time she's spent a night away from me she was with my parents who she knows pretty well.

Has anyone experienced this? Am I being over sensitive?

Well for a start, I would be expecting him to contribute to passport costs!

Oh yes, forgot that bit. He did say he would pay which is something.

I'd be really cautious if I were you. Your DD is very young and if something were to happen it's not like you'd just be an hour away. Also from a personal perspective I'd worry about abduction but that's because it's what my ex tried with our DS.

I don't think any child's first night away from mum should be in a different country TBH. You should go too until she's older IMO.

I definitely wouldn't be comfortable with it as things are now, it doesn't sound as if she's spent enough time with him recently. But if he's not moving until the spring you have time to gradually increase the amount of time and build up to overnight/weekend visits. Maybe if those go well you will feel better about the idea of her visiting him abroad.

But if he's flying over to pick her up and bring her back anyway you could equally argue that it makes more sense for her to just visit her at home until she's a bit older.

Thank you. I wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable for feeling so uncomfortable with the idea. I'll have to work on him with the suggestion that I take her and just stay somewhere locally. Oooh! holiday on my own. Now there's a thought!!

My ex wanted to take my 2 year old to NI last summer and I didn't agree to it as he had only had a couple of overnight contacts at the time.

I don't think you are unreasonable with being uncomfortable about the idea. - But when I posted on here about my situation I got an absolutely pasting!

"I can't bear the idea of not being in the same country as her when she's still so young. "

that is just nonsense - you are making it about you not her. france isnt that far away...

"She's never spent a night with him; "

ah.

well now you putting forward a valid point - she needs to build up spending overnights with him before jetting off to france or elsewhere with him.

why no overnights?

Wow, I didn't think this would be the place for getting a pasting. Obviously haven't been here enough.

I think 'nonsense' is slightly harsh isn't it? I want to make sure she's going to be ok. Fair enough she probably would be but that doesn't mean I can't worry about her.

No overnights because he's living at his mum's 4 hours away. There's no room there and the majority of visits tend to be when he comes down here to see her for a few hours.

I think it all depends on what type of person your ex is. For example: if DH and I were not together and he asked to take the kids away on holiday, I would have no problem because he is trustworthy, loves his kids, and sensible.
Touching wood now though!

I think your ex has the right to take his baby on holiday.

There are two issues here. Taking her to another country on holiday - which isnt unreasonable -and not having her overnight yet -which he needs to be doing before he takes her overseas.

I can understand how you feel, as she is very young, but you will have to get used to the idea. It is a worry, but we always make sure we share travel arrangements and contact addresses and as mine are a bit older they know what to do if there was a crisis in a foreign country

My ex frequently takes the children overseas. So do I. I have even taken them to the west coast of the USA on my own and once flew all the way to AUS with them, without him.

I know he has a right to take her on holiday, I completely accept that. I think I'm just taken aback slightly because when it was mentioned a few months ago he talked about me taking her over there, not him coming to collect her.

He's the sort of person that needs the practical stuff to be done for him. It would never occur to him to consider things like knowing where the local doctor is or having any kind of plan just in case something went wrong. He acts first and thinks later. I can see I'd end up having to do lots of organising for him and that's not my role anymore.

I'm definitely going to tell him I'd like him to do a few overnight stays in this country before anything like this happens.

Umm, well if I were you I would absolutely not agree to this. And I just wouldn't get her a passport. I can't see why anyone would think it would be fine for a 2 year old to go abroad with someone she barely knows, even if he is her father.
If I did agree to it then I would go with her.

Totally agree with LadyMontore. LeoTheLateBloomer you are not being unreasonable at all. No way would I be happy with that. Your DD is far too young & he hasn't spent enough time with her. I would definitely want him to have had more regular contact with her before agreeing to anymore.

Best of luck with it all.

if he is by then living in France he will (presumably) know where the local doctor is and presumably speaks the language (or is moving to an area with plenty of people who speak his own language)?

if is a holiday how many of us actually check out where the local doctor/hospital is (unless your child has ongoing health needs making it vital)? but assume we will find a leaflet in the hotel/villa/or be able to ask someone out there. eg when my daughter fell and knocked her tooth at a holiday complex a) there was a first aider and b) said first aider had list of local dentists. of course if she has medical needs and needs doctors on ongoing basis then yes this information is more critical to know about in advance. are there ongoing health concerns, regular visits to doctor needed? epilepsy, asthma, allergies needing epipens?

organising for him? dont do it. let go.

but the main thing is that they spend more time together first, including overnights. so you feel more comfortable.

is she currently returned from his visits safe and well, fed and watered, clean and happy?

To his credit, he dotes on her and yes he looks after her well and she always has a good time when he visits. Having said that, whatever she eats or drinks is provided by me and I always need to remind him when she's likely to be hungry/need a sleep. I also tell him each time what her current habits are. The other day when he took her and the dog for a walk together he found out the hard way not to bother getting her out of the pushchair because it's hell getting her back in. It's something he's never done before and there are so many things he's never done, including giving her a bath or preparing a meal for her.

I know lots of it isn't rocket science but he needs guiding in virtually everything he does.

Regarding the medical thing, I suppose I'm just thinking about what I would do if I were abroad with her. Even if he is living there (and no he doesn't speak the language) that is by no means a gurantee that he knows where the doctor is. That kind of thing doesn't occur to him.

stop providing the drinks and food for her on visits - let him take care of it all. she will soon let him know when she hungry etc and he will have to think for himself. (it was a lesson i had to learn too, to let go...., unless you hand her over and let him take care of everything - then you will be even more worried when it becomes overnights/. two days/. a week etc) .

ask him next time to give her a bath.

the next time to make her a meal . etc.

of course it would be normal to say "she hasnt had a sleep yet today so wil likely be tired, she didnt eat all her breakfast so might be hungry sooner " etc - as per any carer - or keep a notebook runing in which you write down essential info on handover?

unless of course he does have some kind of learning issue or medical or special need himself meaning he literally needs guiding in everything?

Thank you for sticking with me cestlavielife. I don't mean to be negative and dismiss everything you say...but...

When he visits her here I make sure he takes her out because of how he behaves towards me when he's here, so giving her a bath would be a definite no-no. On Saturday I had to be out all day so the arrangement was different and he was here with her for some of the time (so that they didn't have to be out of the house for 8 hours). Yes, that could have been an opportunity for him to have prepared a meal for her. It would be easier for him to do all this for her on his turf but, again it's difficult while he's living at his mum's which is tiny.

I'm certainly going to have to start working on him and make it very clear that they need to have spent much more time together and have him doing much more practical stuff with her.

Thanks again

ok - why cant his mum go out for the day so he can take her there?

she needs to get used to being with him at his place and not at yours

Could your ex rent a serviced apartment for a day/night anywhere near you?

Firstly OP, it doesn't sound like this is a 'holiday' as such, if he's moving to France then I imagine it'll be a regular thing and will be his 'access' . She'd likely be going there on a regular basis ? Then half of the holidays when she starts school.

Everyone has different opinion , my dd was 2 when she started staying overnight with me, beginning with one night.... up to 2 within a month.... 3 within two months etc.

Personally I'm waiting till she's 3 and a bit before I take her away from her mum for a week, but I know people on here have done so without problems.

I think your XP probably needs a bit more parenting experience before he whisks her off for a week, and that depends on whether he listens to you or not. It did take me a while before I was organized in terms of making sure I have food and drink for dd when travelling, picture books, a favourite toy, changing her nappy at night time etc etc.

mr gn did you learn for yourself - learn by doing -

or did you ask your ex for advice?

Sorry cestlavie I meant he can't have DD to stay the night at his mum's. When we're up in his direction he does take her there for a few hours, but we rarely go up there so the vast majority of his visits are on my territory where he has no friends. I doubt very much he'd go to the expense of a serviced apartment (not even sure they exist in this little corner of the south west).

I think if it comes to it and he hasn't had the opportunity to develop his parenting skills then I'll just suggest that I take her to France for a holiday and during that time she spends the odd night with him. They way his life is set up at the moment I can't see it happening any other way.

Thank you for your input MrGin, it's good to hear it from the dad's perspective.

cestlavielife a bit of both. I was reasonably hands on when I was with my XP but hadn't done a lot of night time parenting. And there is an element of continuity so XP does / would tell me about things that had changed in dd's routine and I could continue when she was at mine. Or not, very occasionally, if I disagreed with something.

But I think a lot of it is just common sense.

LeoTheLateBloomer Thanks. I think you may find though I'm not actually the only dad posting in this thread :)

Ooh hadn't realised that!

I think the difference is that you (MrGin) were always more hands on. My ex did very little in the way of practical stuff while he was here which is going to make it harder for him to pick it up on his own.

LeoTheLateBloomer I've kind of realized of late that there are two mountains to climb. One is making sure that your dc has the best upbringing you can manage, and the other is working out how to negotiate the best possible relationship with your XP. Because you do both need to get on to a degree.

Easier said than done.

If your ex is a proper idiot he'll probably default to thinking you're ' telling him what to do ' when in fact you're just imparting useful information about your dc and how best to care for her. It does take a concerted effort to leave past gripes behind you both and even then it can be an uphill struggle because more than likely you're not with your XP because you didn't agree on stuff.

The mantra is ' what is best for dc ' , you need your XP to realize that if he doesn't already. But he will end up with access of course, he just needs to see that in these early stages it needs to be handled very gently.