Using the CSA to take the piss

[whiteandnerdy]

Really don't want to do anything about this other than emote.

End of last month, I go to court to sort out child contact with kids. Ex basically states that I'm a crap irresponsible parent, just a bombardment of bile, boils down to I'm not responsible to get the kids to bed at a reasonable time, or get the school in the mornings ... (OK I've got my captain synical hat on today, and say "this has nothing to do with CSA payments being calculated on who has the children overnight"). Anyway contact is changed from me having weekend contact till dropping kids of at school to having them till 7pm on Sundays.

So for the last few weeks it means that I'm returning the kids to their mothers with there uniform in bags. Now all the kids home clothes are migrating to the ex's I've always supplemented the clothes my Ex buys them by buying shoes clothes and school uniform.

For the last year I've also been paying school dinners for one DS and paid about 170 pounds of school dinner arrears for the other DS. I've also been raising her son from a previous marrage as my own, care, housing, food, holidays, toys entertainment, you name it for the last 9 years. Collective financial support for this by either of his biological parents to date is naffin (no wait his dad did buy DSS a bike and those micro skooters back when they were all the rage). Pay maintenance for the kids via CSA, calculated at circa 300 pounds a month.

Now when I send "I'm getting low on kids clothing, could you collect some together for them to use over the weekend".

I get the reply "Maybe you could start buying some. Tesco is open tonight".

I'm just pissed off, clearly she knows I'm already buying clothes for the kids, you know which clothes you've bought and which clothes you haven't. Maybe she's trying to evoke a response so she can go back to court and say, "this shared parenting isn't working out look how angry and out of control he is." Or she's just using the kids to hurt me financially with a "hell you took me to court over the kids ... I'm gonna make you pay."

Anyway, if you made it this far well done! I've heard the 'man up and dig your hells in' comments before, but I've found that is basically the children that get mashed up in the middle when I do. So I guess I'll be off to shops to get more clothes for the kids. Urrgh, just like to point out that 'NRP' doesn't stand for 'Not Real Parent'.

Rant over, 2 and a bit hours till I pick up the kids, can't wait

I did a case which sounds like yours recently and it ended up with the children having two sets of everything, so they never took any clothes, pe kit etc to the other parent's house, they just turned up in what they were wearing.

Not ideal, but would it work for you?

Maybe it'll end up like that ... I just feels it would be so bloody stupid dressing the kids in school uniform at 6:30 on a Sunday night. Yet another unnecessary hoop for me and the kids to jump through ... but it may end up like that.

Along with buying a new mobile phone for DS who's mobile phone I bought him to keep in touch has 'gone missing' at him mums.

P.S. well done for reading that diatribe to the end

I know how that is.... I'd opt for sending them back in school uniform until you get items back. Why don't you take them to school on a Monday now? Do you pay maintenance for both you child and they other child or just yours? If it's for both would you consider asking the CSA to recalculate based only on your biological child?

:(

You are right NRP doesn't/shouldn't stand for Not Real Parent.

Can you ask the kids to pack a bag of clothes to bring back with them?

Or just text her back - 'It is ridiculous to keep buying the children more clothes when they have plenty that fit them. They are their clothes - please just pack some of them up so they have them to wear this weekend'

Sorry, I know it's a bit late for this weekend now!

Have a lovely weekend with your kids :)

I hope you are showing her up for being a petty mare by sending their uniforms home washed & ironed

been there, done that! we ended up sending them home in what they wore up. so if it was uniform, then they went home in clean uniform. it got to the ridiculous point of socks and knicks but we couldn't afford to buy new clothes every weekend just for them never to come up.

took blardy years before exW stopped being silly. actually it took MIL taking them home one weekend and laying into her making her point forcefully before it stopped. well, i say stopped.... she just started sending them over in small clothes which meant we had to get them stuff anyway . so we sent them back the same way until exW dad pulled her up for playing silly beggars (DH still v friendly with exFIL). yea yea, we stooped to her level but it had to be done!

whiteandnerdy could you buy afew sets of nice outfits for the kids to wear while they're at yours and then a cheap tesco set to wear back to their mums? That way even if you lose the odd item, you wont resent it so much?

The Sunday thing is bollocks by the way. It probably is donw to the fact that CSA is calculated on the nights. so you have the kids all day sunday, feed them, entertain them, but because theyre at their mums you pay the maintenance for that day. Bolllocks.

Can you get the kids onside? My DD and step DD have a bag that they take to and fro the houses. They put their stuff back in the bag immediately and then bring it back with them. (the youngest is 8 and has done this quite happily form 3 years old!)

They likehaving separate sets of clothes at each house otherwise it ends up with half an outfit at each parents house and nothing to wear that matches.

I asked my ex if he could have dd overnight on the Sunday that she is there as she found it unsettling to arrive back at mine after a weekend with her dad and have to go straight to bed then straight to school in the morning. It was pointless so despite the fact it meant I 'lost' another 1/7th of maintenance, that's what happened.

Maintenence is for the maintenance of the children. so naturally I do not resent not recieving money to care for my child on a day that she isn't here She hardly costs anything between the hours of 7pm and 9am... oh wait, she does have a rather large bowl of cornflakes...

My DSd on the other hand.. her mother insists on her going home on a Sunday, but not until 8pm. We have her every Saturday all day& night, then every other Sunday until 8pm (as well as 2 week days and alternate Fridays) The arrangement that she goes home to her mum's on a sunday night ensures that she is (over a 14 days period) spending an extra night per week (i.e. 4:3)at her mums and therefore she is the person with more parental responsibility and receives all the CM & benefits. It really is shameless. (saying that, my dp doesnt pro rata anyway, she gets the full 15%, but i think you know that white from my post on dadsnet!)

Hmm, how many of these possible solutions are potentially putting the children in the middle of uncooperative parents. And putting the onus on the children to resolve these issues and not the parents.

I can really see my kids getting stressed out if they have creep around their mums house so they can gather up clothes to take to my house. Or the ex going through the bag going "no you can't take this I bought it your dads asking you to steal them". I don't know if any of these things would happen, maybe I'm paranoid ... hmm ... maybe I'm not.

I think dressing them in their school clothes and explaining it's a way to make sure they don't forget anything is possible maybe the only 'sensible' alternative. (Read the word sensible while rolling eyes)

whiteandnerdy, would you mind giving my ex lessons in how to be a decent NRP?

Seriously, though, you're doing a good job in difficult circumstances, OP. I'd say the school uniform is your only real choice - you either get the piss taken, or your kids have to (potentially) sneak around their mum, so at least this way you get to show that you won't be messed about.

Sorry, ys, I wasnt suggesting they sneak around their mum. My dd's dad doesnt care that she brings her things from here, back here. He just wouldnt bother to do it if it was left to him. So Ive trained her to do it. And I return everything of his. The thing is, I want to know damnw ell that my DD has a nice things at her dad's for when she is there (10 days out of 30) if I kept everything that came back here she'd end up in rags at her dads as he couldnt possibly keep on replacing things.

My dsd's mum says we are petty for asking her to bring things back here but luckily DSD realises that its a good idea.

So it seems the school uniform thing is the only way. And weird as it is for the kids.

Or just 'forget' to send them back ith their uniforms. Then when she needs them you can let her know that Tesco is open

(I know this wouldn't help but I'm sure it would make you feel better)

OK, so it's now November still had no clothes from ExP who I pay circa 320 pounds of maintenance a month to.

I'm going to as quickly as possible discuss being phoned by DS1 on Thursday who said he needed me to wash his games kit that night otherwise he wouldn't be able to do games. I asked him why his mother couldn't wash them, and it seemed totally crazy that I should drive to his mothers, pick up his games kit, take them home, wash them, drive back to his mothers with washed kit and then drive back home. Alas his mother was unwilling to discuss this with me and thought it better to use her son as the medium of communication for such a bizzare request. DS1 insisted that he required me to wash his games kit otherwise he wouldn't be able to do games at school the next day.

I go over to his mothers house, DS1 dumps his games uniform into my hands and I ask him to fetch me an adult, ExP's husband comes to the door and I ask "what the hell is going on that means him and his wife are incapable of being responsible enough to supply the required items for DS to take part in school lessons." I get the door in my face for asking such impertinent a question about the care of my own children.

I then whip out a bucket, a few large tubs of water and some hand wash powder from the car and hand washing them in the street, have the clothes washed in about the time it would take me to drive home. Knock at the door and DS2 opens the door and takes the washed P.E. kit in. HELP ... WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!!!!

Next day I pick up the kids from school, it's a wet November day and find that this is the state of DS2 school shoes:

www.fudochi.eclipse.co.uk/shoe.jpg

I ask if he's told his mother his shoes are like this, and sure enough she's been told ... so should I buy new school shoes on top of the maintenance that I pay, OK so I'll be pissed off but at least DS2 will have dry feet at school. Or should I dare entertain informing Ex that she should bloody give a shit about her kids , spend some of the maintenance on her children.

I may be wrong but I thought that maintenance was the NRPs contribution to paying for everything the kids need while at the RPs house - so clothes, shoes, uniform, food, toys, books, and even contribute to gas, electric, rent etc to keep a roof over their heads. Your ex is taking the piss in a big way. I would call her bluff and not buy new school shoes. You pay her enough money, tell her to get them.

I at your story re. the PE kit but I can't imagine this is an ideal situation for your kids to be in. I don't know how old they are but imagine getting home from school and being told to ring your dad and tell him he has to wash your games kit or you can't do games the next day. What kind of parent puts their kids through that kind of shit? An nasty, manipulative one, that's what. Your ex and her husband need to grow the fuck up and put the kids first. And if that happens again I'd refuse to go over and wash the kit. I think you need to start calling her bluff otherwise she'll take advantage of you forever and a day.

Oh, and keep a note of the dates, times and details of everything that happens from now on. You may need it in the future if you call her bluff and she decides to take you back to court as revenge.

I feel for you white. I think you will swallow it and buy your son some new shoes as that is the kind of man you are.

But no, it is not right.

White, man you have some patience! I should show your posts to my ExP.
He has out 2DD's from 4.30 tues to 7.30am wed (i do the school run so he can go to work -he is self employed), and from 6.30pm sat to 6.30pm Sunday. I send them with over night stuff and clothes for the next day, as well as whatever story they like for bedtime and anything else they want to take. He has some clothes that he has bought as spares for his house. If they come home in stuff from his, they are washed and folded and returned (though admittedly sometimes they get caught up in the cycle of laundry and it can take a while) and that is usually the case if they leave stuff at his. I actually feel bad if I forget to pack something, even though I know they have spares of everything essential at his just in case. I get £100 a month maintenance, not through the CSA, and he thinks I am taking him for everything he has.
Occasionally he is silly... He bought them outfits for Halloween, even though we had already sorted costumes as the local party and guising night fell within the time they were with me, but he bought them anyway so they could wear them guising, then asked for them to be returned to his house. I thought they were a gift to the kids, so the kids should have been able to choose were to keep them, especially as DD2 totally loves to dress up, but there is no point arguing about silly things like that, although DD1 tried!
So, really, I think you ex is taking the piss, your kids are fortunate to have you, many would have given up by now.

I really reel for the children in this situation. It is awful. My solution used to be to buy all the clothes the children needed, send them over with a bag and just keep asking for stuff back or replacing it.

However, since my ex left his wife and moved back round the corner we now have keys to each others houses once more. If he children need something or want to get something and the other parent is not about we just phone then take them round to get it. All the conflict seems to have abated. Much nicer all round for everyone.

I thought that maintenance was the NRPs contribution to paying for everything the kids need while at the RPs house

Hahaha ! My XP thinks it's payment to her for looking after dd. All £500 of it. That way she can tell herself that she is the one providing everything for dd.

Clothes wise though she did send dd over with what she needed until I built up a decent wardrobe for dd. It all gets mixed up of course but generally works out.

I've heard the 'man up and dig your hells in' comments before, but I've found that is basically the children that get mashed up in the middle when I do.

I feel your pain.

Hmm. Is is possible they've outgrown the clothes and she's got rid of them for that reason? It does sound irrational otherwise, but otoh if a court has agreed to the contact as you've said (and really if they have the wrong idea you need to go back to court- there is not a bias in the UK court system except maybe from a tiny minority of judges), it sounds like there must be problems on both sides, and you do sound very angry and resentful. I really think you need to stop paying for extra things like school dinners IF it is causing you genuine financial difficulties. If it isn't, and you're still living ok and not in poverty, I think it is not helpful to get so wound up over money and it's not going to help your kids for you both to be so unreasonable with each other. (Note I'm living below the poverty line while my ex (NRP) lives in a quarter of a million pound flat, shops in Waitrose, etc. and his entire contribution is 2 days a week childcare which I had to threaten him with moving daughter to a nursery closer to mine before he'd agree to cover the one nearer his and I was having to pay it out of PhD stipend which is below the minimum wage and get no tax credits- he'd still be quite happy to post 'synical' rants about how great he is by doing that, so I can see both sides of this and obviously we are not hearing from your ex here). I remember my own parents being bad at the amicability thing and it being obvious even though they probably thought they were being very subtle and not letting it affect us, and they carried out silly stunts (I mean silly on both your sides- if you didn't think it was a reasonable thing for her to ask, why didn't you just hang up and not do it instead of making a drama out of it?) like that clothes washing thing- I think both of you need to be aware that your children see all this silliness and bitterness and it is certainly affecting them. Poor things.

Maybe read my post again?

WibblyBibble with all due respect I think you're the once coming across as very angry and resentful.

Wibbly, you have the wrong end of the stick. Stop projecting your own anger on to w&n. He is one of the good guys.

My ex waits at the door whilst DD goes and changes out of her clothes. TBH it really used to piss me off the times when I had the clothes and he used to nag me for them but now I've chilled out and not let it bother me. But it was only ever one or two sets of clothes.

I used to think ffs they're all her clothes what difference does it make where they are.

But now I've read your op white I can see where he was coming from. The thing he used to do was send her back in the clothes that were too small so it didn't matter whether he got them back or not. Maybe try that. But that used to piss me off too

OK so after two weeks in November of DS2 going to school with a great hole in the sole of his shoe, I finally buckled and bought him new shoes. I really want to inform my Ex of how I regard her sending my son to school with such warn out shoes as disgustingly irresponsible, and I would like to see signs of the 330 odd pounds the CSA take off me and give to her a month as maintenance for the children actually being spent on them and their needs.

Am I just giving my ex abuse, while begrudging spending money on my own children, and so should I not send that text and just leave it? What does the collective wizdom of the interweb think?