How do you deal with the anger and bitterness from EX?

[Montessorisam]

Hi there,

just split up from husband. We have 3 kids under 9. When H comes to collect the kids he is angry, obnoxious, sarcastic and bitter. In turn his 'comments' make me angry and we end up arguing. I have asked him in an email to make the drop offs and pick ups as quick as possible so that we do not argue in front of the kids. I also suggested that we meet in a public place for drop offs etc. His response was to send me one line back that said 'stop emailing me'.

He has not got himself sorted out with a place to live yet so he comes in, makes coffee, rummages in the cupboards for snacks. When I am not here and he looks after our 2 year old he uses this house, which is fine, until last Tuesday when I took the day off and was here. He basically shouted at me until I left the house and came back at 8.30pm. In other words he shouted me out of my own rented place because I had 'changed' the rules by having a day off work when it was his turn to take the kids. I'm sure that if he got himself a place to live then all of this crap would stop.

On pick up today he asked me what time I wanted them back. I said 6.30pm so that I could bath them, get them in bed early, etc. The other day he brought them back at 8.30pm! He then said that he couldn't buy them lunch AND tea so I said okay 4.30pm. He then argued that that was cutting his time down GGGRRRRRRR.

How do I deal with the anger and crap!?! I am soooo fine with the split. I am doing brilliantly on my own. I just do not need all of his bitterness thrown in my face 3x a week!

Thanks for any adviceX

It's very early days - you have just split and are still working out the basics, housing, finances and childcare.

Whilst you can't change his behaviour you can ensure that you always act in a positive way - remember that children are damaged by rows, they hate seeing their parents angry with each other so anything you can do to lightened the situation is good for your children.
An ex is often an ex for a reason - we no longer like the person or can't live with them however we have to find a way to respect them and treat them kindly as they are a parent to your children. It's very tough to do but it's worth it in the long term. It's not a sign of weakness but actually of your strength if you are able to be rise above the comments and anticipate the flashpoints. When he gets his own place you can establish firmer rules on your space and his space so don't fight each battle now - keep trying to get the long term goal sorted. A home of each of you, a financial settlement that you can both live with and a childcare agreement that is fair and reasonable to both parents.
If he's annoying try not to react - think about the comment and ask yourself if it will really matter in 10 years times. Mostly it won't so let it go

I have formed a 'business-like' communication with my ex, we have been separated since aug/sept 09, dd is 23 months. I no longer react to his sniping, and all the other cra he does. He picks dd up, I give him a notebook with what shes done in the week so I dont have to speak to him. He fills it in for the measly 2 hours he has and that avoids a lot of conflict. It does get better but takes time x

Stop letting him into your house, where does he usually live when he's not shouting you out of your house, and rummaging thro your things?

Have kids ready and at the door when he's due to pick up, hand them over and don't engage (no matter how tempting it is).

First step really would be to place some boundarys, at the moemnt you're allowing him to walk all over you, it's your home he can take the chldren out.

If he has issues about feeding them, and is getting pissy with your suggestions, ask him what his proposal is.

Once you stop engaging he'll get fed up. He sounds awful.

Thanks for all of the wonderful advice.

FUZZY - He is living with friends/brother/mum etc at the moment. They are always ready at the door but he just walks in and passed me. If I say anything his response has been that he has put a fu@@@ing roof over our heads for 10 years etc.....

Miss prickle pants - I love the idea of a notebook but there is no way he would bother with that - probably rip it up in my face but maybe that would be a suggestion for the future when he has calmed down....

Smum99 - great dvice thanks. I will have to kepp telling myself to stay calm and not react. In 10 years time his pettiness will not matter! It is true that when he gets his own place then I can be very firm about boundaries.

I guess he feels justified in doing these things as he is the one who has left (or kicked out as he puts it) He is feeling very sorry for himself at the moment and that is the reason for his anger towards me.

I just wish that he would hurry up and get himself sorted out!

Refuse to let him in the house, have a friend there, perhaps when you see him arrive send friend out with children to meet him at the gate or something away from your house.

It doesn't matter how much he spent over the past ten years on you all as a family, you both invested in those years, I bet you did the majority cooking the cleaning, the childcare, and if you worked you also contributed to the household income, he can't hold you to ransom over that, you put up with him for a decade too.....

You really have to set clear boundaries, otherwise he will continue to behave like this as you allow it.

If he's aggressive, I'd suggest he pick the children up from your local contact centre, and drop them off there too.

Your house is yours, you dont barge into his houseshare and rifle thro his belongings, he has no right to that to you.

Thanks for all of the wonderful advice.

FUZZY - He is living with friends/brother/mum etc at the moment. They are always ready at the door but he just walks in and passed me. If I say anything his response has been that he has put a fu@@@ing roof over our heads for 10 years etc.....

Miss prickle pants - I love the idea of a notebook but there is no way he would bother with that - probably rip it up in my face but maybe that would be a suggestion for the future when he has calmed down....

Smum99 - great dvice thanks. I will have to kepp telling myself to stay calm and not react. In 10 years time his pettiness will not matter! It is true that when he gets his own place then I can be very firm about boundaries.

I guess he feels justified in doing these things as he is the one who has left (or kicked out as he puts it) He is feeling very sorry for himself at the moment and that is the reason for his anger towards me.

I just wish that he would hurry up and get himself sorted out!

OOps sorry computer went wrong and messaged twice!

You wil have to do what I did and say that he may not come into your house without your expressed invitation. You will not be leaving your house at any time unless you wish to. If he wishes to spend time with his childen out of your presense, he must take them out.

the end.

Repeat this until he stops shouting and tantrumming.

PS - if he is shouting his mouth off at you in your own house, tell him to leave. Your children do not need to see their mother being treated with such appalling disresp0ect. If he will not leave, call the police and have him removed.

What he wantas to do (come in your house, riffle ytour cupboards) is not actually relevant. He doesn't get to come into YOUR house and behave in this way.

Fuzzy - you are right; we both invested in those 10 years - but try telling that to him! As far as he is concerned he is the injured party as he was the one who worked and provided for the family. (I try to tell him that as an adult he would have worked and done the same job anyway! With our without family...) Part of the problem over the years has been that my work with the kids and in the house; providing emotional support, clean home, meals....has never been recognised as anything at all. Tha has contributed to the erosion of my respect for him as he has never appeared to have any respect me what I have done/do or am!

I also need to get my bank account sorted out. We are still sharing one but as I was the one that sorted all the bills out etc they are all in my name and coming out of this shared account. Does anyone know of a quick and easy way of changing all DD onto a new account without to much hassle involved! I do not want him to start spending all of the Tax Credits that I get for the kids.

Open a new bank account, tell the new bank you want to transfer existing DD's from old account over to new account, new bank will give you a form to fill out and transfer them over.

It's very quick and simple.

Yep been there

Completely agree with Colditz, RE; ex and your house

Colditz - thank you. I did tell him to leave when he was shouting. He just continued to shout. Unfortunately for some reason my 9 year old daughter started shouting at me too (!) I think it was because I had asked her dad to leave the house. (I went to lock the door when he went to the doorstep for a cigerette) Under these circumstances I thought it was best that I just get out of the house to avoid more confrontation!! I'm just not sure what to do beyond that....

I think when he returns later I will look out for him coming and meet him outside - take the kids off him and shut the door (lock it!!) Hopefully that will work. It is so difficult as my daughter gets involved and starts shouting at me to let daddy in etc..

Colditz - thank you. I did tell him to leave when he was shouting. He just continued to shout. Unfortunately for some reason my 9 year old daughter started shouting at me too (!) I think it was because I had asked her dad to leave the house. (I went to lock the door when he went to the doorstep for a cigerette) Under these circumstances I thought it was best that I just get out of the house to avoid more confrontation!! I'm just not sure what to do beyond that....

I think when he returns later I will look out for him coming and meet him outside - take the kids off him and shut the door (lock it!!) Hopefully that will work. It is so difficult as my daughter gets involved and starts shouting at me to let daddy in etc..

OOOOO My computer is playing up. GGGRRR sorry!

Oh Fuzzy - is that all you have to do!! Hurrah! I thought that you had to go to each and every DD company (BT etc) and fill ina form for all...in that case I shall be doing it next week!

Montessorisam I think you really need to sit sdown and discuss things with your older children.

I've made it clear to my children that daddy and I do not get along, he does not live here, I love them dearly and I want them to be happy and they can see him as much as they want, but not in my house as he shouts and makes me unhappy and I don't deserve that, just as they dont deserve to be told off for not doing anything wrong.

You got to talk to them, goodness knows what he must be saying to the children, if he's this pissy with you.

can you speak to your DD separately some time when he is not there, explain you don't want to stop him from seeing them, but that you can't have him in the house when he is being so argumentative. Ask her what she thinks you would do if she started speaking to you like that - I expect there would be a consequence to that kind of behaviour? Then you can explain just because Dad is a grown up it doesn't mean he gets to behave like that either. Ask her how she feels when Dad starts shouting, give her an opportunity to talk about how she feels about the split, and offer her lots of reassurance that you both love her and that things will settle down in time.

You don't have to let him into your house if you don't want to. Even if he was being perfectly polite- he could see them at his mum's or brother's house, or take them to the park, swimming, etc. The fact he's being aggressive gives you even more reason not to let him in. If he starts shouting, take the children and walk away - he can't argue with himself. If things get really bad you could consider a contact centre - or perhaps a family member could do the handovers for you? It seems he's refusing to engage via email, so I'd just arrange it and tell him "This is what is happening now. I don't want the kids seeing us arguing." and then if he starts trying to say anything say "I'm not prepared to discuss this further." and walk away. If he's being aggressive, you can call the police. In fact it would be worth you phoning on the non-emergency number one time when the children aren't around, and just explaining the situation and asking for their advice for next time he kicks off.

And YES change the bank account first thing on Tuesday - or he WILL spend all the tax credits and then where will you be?

I think that discussing things with my eldest is very important. She is quite hard to talk to at times - she does a lot of stropping off. I have to get her on a good and reasonable day. That is good advice - thank you.

I do have a seperate bank account that he doesn't have access to. I can start with that can't I.

In circumstances like this a solicitor's letter can be quite effective and shouldn't be too expensive. Although your husband is an owner of the property he no longer lives there and you have the right to privacy and a family life without him barging into the property. If he needs access (eg to collect personal possessions) this can be arranged at a mutually convenient time when the children aren't there through solicitors. Alternative arrangements can be made for handovers and contact.

If the behaviour then continues it's possible to apply to court for a non-molestation order that orders someone to keep away. "Molestation" is to pester or annoy.

STIDW - thank you. I am in a better position actually. I rent the property and his name isn't even on the contract! He hasn't paid any money towards the last lot of rent. The reason why his name isn't on the contract is because he could never be bothered to sign it or take it to landlords.

I do keep telling him this though but to no avail...

I have taken all of your advice tonight and used it. He brought the kids back at 5.45pm - unfed. Youngest's nappy had not been changed ALL DAY. They all had filthy hands that hadn't been washed all day either. I wasn't prepared and finally got them fed at 7pm - if he had communicated properly I would have sorted tea out in advance so that they could be fed on their return.

I met him on the street outside and took the kids off him. He said to the kids "Oh, I can't come in as your mum is acting funny for some reason." I took the kids in. My eldest began her rant. I calmly explained that I do not want him in the house at the moment as I do not want any arguing in front of them. I also said that all of the shouting in the house needed to stop. That mummy had only their best interests at heart. That when mummy says a time to come back that daddy needs to stick to it. Not sure if all of this was right and totally not sure what the right thing to say is in these circumstances. I also said that she doesn't need to take sides and that she doesn't need to keep shouting at me. Bertiebotts - I took your advice and explained that it is not okay for daddy to come in and shout.

She didn't really respond with anything but a sullen face - hope it has gone in!

I have also emailed Ex with times and days when he can see them stating that pick up and drop off is outside the house. I also asked that he change sons nappyonce or twice and wash their hands too. (Should I really have to ASK this!!!)

Anyway, all advice is appreciated and if anybody else has any good ideas as to how to deal with this very difficult ex theI would love to hear it!

I remember, after splitting with my xp, having one talk with xp infront of dd 2. The stress levels rose in the conversation and i looked across at dd and saw the anxiety on her little face

I insisted my xp and i never talk about anything contentious infront of dd again. For the most part everything shifted to email. And bizzare as it was and is now to a degree, we do manage to be friendly and then go home to sock it out via email.

But it has improved things. I take it you did love this guy once, there must be some level you can communicate on... unless he's being a massive knob. Which it sounds like he is. But he probably believes he has been wronged.

Men can be quite fragile, speaking as one.

I think any friction infront of the kids is the worst of it. I had a difficult time with my xp, but i always speak highly of her to dd, AND her Gran who absolutly hates me ;-) . There is always a big happy goodbye at either doorstep. Which makes dd happy. It's all about the children.

He's probably like you say, feeling sorry for himself like a wounded dog. Throw him a bone but stay out of biting distance until he's not feeling so hurt.

It's all going to take time to sort out.

My xp usually goes out when i see dd at hers. And playing the devils advocate ( a bloke ! ) , i would be a bit miffed if my ex took the day off when i had dd. Rightly or wrongly. I was reasonably hands on with dd, i did need the odd reminder on her routine etc.

Goodluck

I think you did very well. I had to be firm and in control when Ds1 was screaming at me to "Let my daddy in!" (he was only 5) but in the long run, it has improved the ocntact they do have with their dad as he can no longer plonk himself on the sofa whilst the children continue to run to me for all their needs. I did this about 3 years ago and life is much easier now, for all of us. Ex HATES being in my house. Which is fine because I don't much like him being here.

So conversations now go

Ds1 - "Can daddy come in?"
Me - "Well, Ds1, he could.... but I'm sure he'd much rather take you to his flat and maybe go to the park on the way, wouldn't you, Daddy?"
Ex - "Yes, let's go, we'll take your scooters"
Ds1 - "Yayyyyyy! Scooters!"
Ds2 - "Meh" (He's never cared, or had a HUGE attachment to his dad)

Montess...I think you handled DD really well.

From my own personal experience, abusive men are very good at making themselves out to be the Poor, Innocent VICTIMS!! Whilst you are the Bad One. They so cleverly make this out to the kids, and sometimes we the partners do also end up feeling sorry for them.