XP would like to pay maintenance into joint account, so he can monitor spending on DS, and spend it too

[PieEyedPiper]

Is it me, or is this bloody nuts?

Firstly, his maintenance payment (which has been arrived at in accordance with CSA guidelines) was, I thought, to me, to help pay for DS's upbringing. I have DS 10 days out of 14, his dad has him four, and I pay the main outgoings: clothes, shoes, school uniform/trips/dinners, swimming lessons, etc. His dad feeds him when he's with him, and pays for whatever activity they do.

XP is now saying he'd like to pay this maintenance into a joint account, so that he can see how much it really costs to raise DS, and also, he can then access and use the money set aside in maintenance to pay for DS when he's with his dad. I didn't think it worked like this. And also, for me to have to pay for everything for DS out of a separate account would be a faff, because I find I often buy him things in amongst a bigger shop for other stuff too, and with cash; I'd need to separate out transactions.

XP pays £250/month. He had pledged to up this for this new financial year to £325, which he forgot to do. When I politely reminded him, he suggested this new joint account plan, and also said he felt his maintenance payment was for more than half of the costs of raising DS and that he had therefore been subsidising my choice (which, incidentally, was our choice) to work part-time. I argued that while DS is six, and has 13 weeks of school holiday a year, a week of INSET days and a week or two of sickness, someone needs to be on hand to flexibly cover these 16 weeks - plus time after school - and that my working part-time for an uncommonly flexible employer has saved us having to spend on childcare costs. He still thinks he's subsidising my lifestyle choice, rather than helping to cover some of the hidden costs of raising DS.

Today I achieved something amazing at work - I should be feeling as high as a kite tonight. But I just feel deflated by money quarrels.

Is XP being fair to think he's paying over the odds, and that I should log spending on DS and that he should be able to access and spend the maintenance he pays too, or am I justified in finding him utterly unreasonable and unrealistic over this?

He's been a knob.

"he felt his maintenance payment was for more than half of the costs of raising DS" - but you have DSfor more than half the time and pay for all the general day to day costs.

utter rubbish!!

he has no rights to have any knowledge of what its spent on/or spend it himself

CSA has assessed him? that should be the end of it

No, he's not being fair. He's being a knob jockey.

You have him 10 out of 14 days, not 7 out of 14.

Fuck him and his 'suggestion'.

Did he have control issues when you were married to him?

lol

What you need to do is get another account with the same bank, then when the payment comes in - transfer it online to your account.

He is being a knob.

Send him a few childcare quotes - people without full responsibilty for kids day to day often don't understand that this does equal a second mortgage equivlalent. The bill for the summer holidays should say it all. Ask him to cover childcare so you can work fulltime hee hee in ADDITION to his existing maintenance.

Keep the receipts for school uniform and shoes etc. Point out shoes are a 3 monthly expense at this age. Add an extra £100 to the utility bills as being directly attributable to the kid after the winter we've had - unless he's happy for your child to sleep in his coat next winter? Would you NEED a mobile if not for schools to need for a quick emergency contact no? (this last one I deffo wouldn't) Do you have a book bill?

Finally - laugh at his audacity lol!

Phew. It isn't me being unreasonable then. Thanks for the reassurance.

For the record, the CSA haven't sorted maintenance on our behalves; we've agreed an amount between us using their guidelines.

XP knows I have considerable savings - these are the remnants of a business we owned together. He spent/lost his share; I have set mine aside to make inroads with paying for the house/DS to go to uni/my retirement. His knowing this means he keeps going on about me not knowing how lucky I am, me being ungrateful, me only having this money because of him, him "giving" this money to me. He expects me to use some of my savings to pay towards DS's upbringing/subsidising my part-time income while DS is small (I have been anyway, although am making moves to be able to afford to leave it alone, which would be more financially savvy).

But is any of this his business? Is maintenance calculated with the recipient parent's savings in mind? XP spent his money on fast cars, among other things; I don't see any of that going towards DS's upbringing/future.

My feeling is that XP is trying to control my finances - via a joint account for DS's maintenance, via telling me how I should be spending/investing my savings, and via keeping tabs on what I'm saving for ... and then determining his maintenance contribution accordingly. My understanding is that none of this should be entering the equation: in the here and now, we both have a child who needs feeding/clothing/caring for now, and we should each be contributing our fair share of our income and time towards his upbringing. End of. Personal savings shouldn't come into it; my savings don't make XP any less responsible for financially supporting DS.

Am I right?

I feel like I'm being browbeaten and "made to pay" for trying to be financially responsible! When I try to explain to XP that this is how what he has to say is coming across, he thinks I'm imagining it.

Sigh.

You are right, he's a prick.

Tell him you'll be seeing the CSA if he's going to get arsey.

If you think he won't pay and he is employed then I would suggest formalising it through the CSA. If he is self employed I'd try and donthings amicably as the CSA are useless when exs hide their income.

If you have done the calculation correctly then the amount of time your ex has your dc should be netted off the amount paid anyway. He is being an idiot and has no right to the maintenance he is paying you for your dc.

I would add up the true cost of raising your dc and let him know that just for shock value. When I added up childcare, activities, food, clothing etc I was gobsmacked to find it was about £1000/mth of which my ex contributed £50. It briefly went up to £300 then he his his income again so it is back to a ridiculously low figure.

It's none of his business what you spend the money on and a joint account is rediculous. What is his reaction to you suggesting he allows you access to all his income and expenditure so you can see what he is spending his money on and if he can then spare more for ds...?

Does he expect to be joint signatury on any cheques you sign or payments you make from this joint account? That is completey impracticle and controlling. Point out he has issues if that's what he expects. And if he doesn't expect it then he should just let you get on with it.

The only thing you actually need to tell him that the CSA calculation is meant to keep the child in the lifestyle they could have expected had you remained together and he has no right to knowon what or how you spend it.

If you feel the need you could also explain that your income is subsidised by the government to acknowldge that your part time role in important as a carer which is why you get CTC and WTC and to ensure your ds is not brought up in poverty or disadvantaged by his mum choosing to work while a line parent.

Presumably he has 4 weekend days out of the fortnight? Point out that reliable chaildcare is expensive and that you didn't have children to palm them off with someone else all the time.

Does he have him for half the holidays? And if so does his company allow him 7 weeks off a year (13 weeks + 1 week inset days)? How does he cover the weeks he can't take as paid holiday? If he doesn't have half teh hols then he is in effect expecting you to take time off or pay for child care in what should be his responsibility/time.

Don't give him a list of your expenses. Instead ask him to list out what he sees the cost of your child is. Would be interesting to know what he says! I bet he doesn't include the endless requests froms school for money (photos, fund raising, trips), petrol to ferry him about to friends and activities and/or school, furniture and other long term items such as computer or even money for a birthday party or xmas presents.
And will he think to include expenses for presents for kids birthday parties ds attends or activities he does both at home (like crafts or school projects) and outside (swimming, beavers). And will he put anything aside for a savings account or emergency fund? unlikely....

Look if you can manage without his money for a while actually pass this to the CSA to sort out - really having a joint account with someone who is a bit feckless with money is a BIG mistake - it means you are financially linked and that is no good for you at all. I think you should just refuse to even enter into it - showing his receipts and all that just flatters him into thinking you give a fuck what he thinks. Your savings are your business.

Please do not enter into any negotiations with him - just point blank refuse and hand it over to the CSA and live on your own money in the mean time whilst it is sorted.

I went through this myself with their Father who used to reduce each penny he spent whilst they were with him and then send me an email of everything he had deducted for!!!!!!!!!!!He also used to ask for food shopping receipts to see how much I spent on food for them. For the record he now pays nothing.... I do feel when people start fucking around like this they are spoiling for a fight and the sooner you hand it over to someone else to deal with the better.

I can see why you are divorced.

I would handle this by refusing to defend my spending or giving any other reason why I work part time or why I holiday in August - don't even reply as this just adds amunition.

Simply say it is not up for descussion as to how I spend money, legally you need to pay for the up keep of your dc whilst he lives with me.

I wouldn't threaten, but if he starts threatening not to pay then do give the csa a ring or your solicitor a visit and get a letter written by them to him.

Often someone says something in the "pub" or at work etc about they pay this much to there ex or they tell him he is paying to much where is it all going shes living hte life of riley. Then the experts of nothing walk away and leave your ex beleiving them and they then are like a dog with a bone trying to make sure they don't get ripped off as it deflates their ego

"Is maintenance calculated with the recipient parent's savings in mind? XP spent his money on fast cars, among other things; I don't see any of that going towards DS's upbringing/future."

my exh did exactly this - i don't have much help to offer other than that your ex is being totally unreasonable and whatever you do you need to try to keep your finances, especially including the maintenance, in your own account not a joint one.

Seen your additional post on what he chose to spend him savings on. There is no way you'd want him to have any say in what you are the RP spend your ds's money on, even if you wanted/needed to (which you don't!).

What savings you have or what you earn is irrelevant to the calculation of what he is required to pay to maintain his child.
he has a responsibility to pay as per the CSA calculation (or more/less if you are happy to agree to have a private arrangement)

Tell him to get over himself.
Would still be interested to see what he reckons it costs you to bring up ds though. Bet it's wildly short.

Your ex is being unreasonable, and controlling. With regard to the money you've saved for your future I'd use it to pay some of your mortgage off, or lock it away in a long-term saving account with an access period - that way it's not money you have to hand and takes it out of the argument.

I would say the issue around the joint account is more to do with controlling you, and checking on you than money. Tell him you'll go through the CSA if he prefers but the joint account is not an option. Remember the MN saying - 'No' is a complete sentence!

He's a controlling fucker. Don't let him bully you. Agree with Chrys, 'no' is a complete sentence!

One other thing (as I attempt to calm down and pay attention to posts further up!): a few posters above said that XP should be paying for more than half of the costs of raising DS, because he has him less than half the time. How does that work then? Is that precisely to factor in things like unaccounted-for childcare costs (i.e. the resident parent needing to be around/flexible a lot more than the non-resident parent, thereby forgoing income)?

Just seen your post, bochead. Thanks. Our calculations for the cost of raising DS don't include a share of any household bills; XP's view (and mine to a degree, I suppose) is that I'd have to be paying these anyway, whether I have DS or not.

Dont apologise, dont explain, dont engage just say no to his request and as others have suggested if he is salaried then look to go to the CSA to formalise things. I think IvyKaty44's analysis is spot on.

PEP, to a degree yes you do have to pay bills whether you live with your dc or not, but it is how big the bills are in relation to the property. If you have two chidlren and are living in a three bedroomed house then you are paying biggesr bills than if you lived in a one bedroomed falt and had a sofa bed for weekend visits, where the bills may be 40% less than the three bedroomed house.

So shouldn't the exp pay towards 20% of the bills as if it weren't for the two dc you wouldn't have that extra 40% bill cost

Blimey. Was on the phone while writing that last message and didn't see all the other posts come up.

Thanks for all your thoughts; much appreciated.

So my instinct is right. So why do I still come away from these interactions feeling so diminished; so crushed?

For the record, XP runs his own business, so going through the CSA formally wouldn't be fruitful, because his business is new and not generating much income, and as has been mentioned, it's easy to "hide" income when self-employed. Not that I think XP would actually do this; he genuinely loves DS, and I don't think would wish to not contribute to his upbringing. Hence us agreeing maintenance between us until now.

I sense a lot of contempt coming from XP's direction towards me this year, having had a really peaceful, cooperative year last year. (He now tells me that last year was peaceful only because he allegedly complied with everything I asked and was browbeaten by me - he won't be controlled anymore and it's clearly now time to get even; in his words, he "must" make a stand about these things.)

BIG sigh.

Thank you all again. I feel a lot better for reading your posts.

OP you have my sympathies, i have been in your shoes many times with exh (last year he told me he would have to reduce my maintenance because he needed the money to pay for his wedding. really!)

ivykaty44, DS and I still live in what was the family home: a four-bedroom house. It's bigger than DS and I need, but it's keeping DS settled and continuing to live (as I think one poster put it) the life he'd become accustomed to. And with my income from work and a lodger (which I'm planning to get on board soon), I can afford for DS and I to continue to live here for the time being. But I don't know how we calculate what would be a fair share of bills for XP to contribute to, given that the house is bigger than we actually need.

PEP - How much income do you get from your current lodger? Presumably you could let out ds's room too if he wasn't it in for a similar amount..? Therefore you could reason that it's costing you that income by him being there as if you didn't have him you wouldn't need the extra room or could take in anotehr lodger to help pay the mortage.

"So my instinct is right. So why do I still come away from these interactions feeling so diminished; so crushed?"

Because you're a decent person and he's a twat.

Do not open a joint account. Do not engage in a discussion about it, simply say no. If he keeps pushing it refuse to answer, change the subject.