Should ex be allowed to take 6 month old to his house 45 mins away from me?

[Yika]

My XP broke up with me when I was 8 months pregnant. Our DD is now 6 months old. He came to visit her at my place during the first few months, though has never been very helpful or supportive. (He doesn't pay a penny towards her upkeep; he took his paternity leave as holiday to spend with his new girlfriend and other children). He lives about 1 hour distant from me. In the last couple of months DD and I have seen him about once every two weeks, for a couple of hours max at a time, and usually in a public place (restaurant, park), as he doesn't like to go out of his way to come to mine.

Now I am back at work and DD is at the nursery. He would like to pick her up from there on days when he finishes work in the early afternoon, and take her to his place. I would then have to pick her up from his after work myself. This means a one and a half hour round trip by car for her and for me.

I have always maintained that until she knows him well and is a bit older (e.g. 18 months, 2 years) he should visit her at my place. She should not have to deal with an unfamiliar environment and unfamiliar people all at once. She doesn't really know him, his two daughters, or his girlfriend, who all live with him.

What is your view, and if we were to take it to a family court, what kind of arrangement would a judge be likely to impose? I actually live in Belgium but want to get a feel for the kind of arrangements that other people have.

The truth is, that while until now I've really put myself out to make sure he was involved with her, I've begun to feel that she may actually be better off without him. When we see him it involves rushing around at his beck and call, disrupting her routine, while he does nothing for her - either materially or in terms of time, effort and consideration. I don't see how she can grow up feeling valued or learning self-respect in those circumstances. But for now I'm treading carefully as I know he has equal parental rights since he's on the birth certificate (this is the law in Belgium). Oh how I bitterly regret the day we went to register her together.

Personally, I wouldn't allow it. I would state bbay is being breast fed and cannot be away for long periods of time. The mere fact he isn't paying to fund the child he helped made would make me stop him even seeing her. Would he honestly fund court costs to take you to court?

Sorry I'm in the same situation as you were in and bitter, raw and wanting to hurt him in very much on my mind.

I agree she sounds a bit young for this at the moment and he needs to build up to it. But fwiw I think your timetable would be considered too drawn out by UK courts - I think after a few more months of him showing commitment and her being relaxed in his company is enough. He shouldn't overwhelm her with new people, but if these are people in his life, he is entitled to introduce them. Yes, he should go at an appropriate pace, but think yours would be considered too slow.

And be careful not to let your understandable hurt and bitterness overwhelm the fact that he is her father and it will almost always cause children lasting and serious emotional harm to be deprived of an opportunity to have a relationship with the person who makes up one half of their DNA.

He might be a selfish unpleasant twat, but unless he poses an immediate risk to her physcial or emotional harm, the courts in the UK will promote his relationship with her. If she decides when she grows up she doesn't want a relationship with him, that's her choice but if she grows up and blames you for keeping him away, this will hurt your relationship with her as well.

Having her routine disrupted for one afternoon a week is very unlikely to be considered emotional harm. Not when weighed against the harm of not knowing her dad.

It is a very hard and difficult place to be and I utterly sympathise, in but the law in the UK at least is very clear about the position of both parents in their children's lives.

I am in the same situation!! H left me at 9 months pregnant for OW - a friend of mine. I live 1.5 hours away. We've arranged 5 hours every fortnight. We communicate via a notebook and text. May sound ridiculous but unfortunately the whole situation has left me all over the shop and I'm suffering with anxiety quite badly - so it isn't a good idea to see him.

He hasn't asked for more time with DS, and to be honest, no way on this earth can he have him for more than an afternoon until DS is older, maybe 2? At the mo, when he takes him DS looks bewildered, its not at all nice. If he starts getting upset at any point, major re-think will be in order. I'm not putting DS through the upset just so ExH can play Dad for the afternoon.

Its a horrible situation, but makes me feel better that others have experienced this too.

little and often with babies......the bewildered look will soon go if dad see's more of the baby.

Ah but then he'd need to give up his "free" weekend with his new lady. He has his DD the weekends he comes to see DS.....he's never asked to see him anymore than that.

I think your reasoning that she won't cope with unfamiliar surroundings and people won't really wash if you've put her in nursery. Nor will the breastfeeding excuse for the same reason - not that I agree with saying that at all.

I'm not in the same situation as my dd is much older, but not to let her go to him until she's 2 seems to me a very long time, and I would have thought it would be better for her to start going now and get used to it.

I don't think you should be collecting her though, I think he should be bringing her back to you. He should also be paying towards her.

It sounds like it is all about him and nothing about you and your baby.

Six months FFS! Who does he think he is?! Expecting you and her to drive halfway round the country after you've put in a full day at work??
And after picking her up too and driving all that way? (2-odd hours earlier)!
Does he even "get it" how that is for a 6-month old?? (never mind you)!

If I were you, (and I was, in NL with a 6-month old baby), I would pull out all the stops (legally) to give me and DD a break from him! Hey, if he isn't paying nought, what right does he have anyway?

Please find yourself a good solicitor, especially as you are not up on the law there, don't let this man walk all over you!

You need to build a solid home for you and your daughter now, no-one, and definately not a dead-beat dad telling you how to do it!

suburbophobe Take a bow. Everything you said with cherries on top. If he has legal rights so do you.If he can't pay for her upkeep then he can't have no cake.

Thanks for your helpful comments - indeed she has taken to the nursery very well so is adaptable to new people. I still breastfeed at night but not in the day.

Spero - the trouble is, he is not currently spending any time with her and she doesn't even recognise him (she saw him much more in the first few weeks when we were getting on better and even thought we might get back together).

If I felt after a couple of months that I could comfortably leave her with him for an afternoon at my place, then I would feel better about graduating to her going with him.

He did come here and look after her while I went out twice - but that was already several months ago, but now has not even been to my place for about 2 months, so I feel he's not playing fair.

I wouldn't say I was exactly bitter. I just have the feeling that I am making all the running and yet he comes back with this sense of entitlement about having her at his place regardless of how I feel about it or whether she is ready, and without being willing to do anything for her or me. I have to put myself (and the baby) out driving hither and thither to meet him in places that are easily accessible to him but not comfortable for the baby, but he won't reciprocate.

And the money thing does make me feel less amenable regarding visits. Recently I suggested that since he doesn't pay maintenance he could open a bank account for her and he just started hurling abuse at me!! He's never bought a single piece of baby equipment, just a few items of clothing and two small toys at Christmas (stocking filler size; and I had to ask him to get them).

Obviously this is a separate issue from the visitation rights but I'm not going to keep eternally bending to his will.

x posted suburbophobe and violet!! Yes that's how I feel. I didn't mind about the money initially when I thought he was going to pull his weight in terms of childcare - but now I see that he isn't I'm considering getting the law on him. :D

(he threatened to surrender his parental rights if I ever sued him for maintenance; I actually wish he would but suspect that he would just make my life a misery by fighting every inch)

Wilkoa - your situation is even worse than mine, with the OW being a so-called friend - that's terrible.

I think we are both well rid :D

good lord violet.....you would not be popular in court....you never,ever,ever mix the 2 issues of contact and maintenence!! there is a court to uphold the childs rights,and the CSA to collecgt maintenence (not sure what Belgium has)

children are NOT pay per view!!!

what is Belgiums equivalent of the childrens act.....?

I must really look into the legal situation in Belgium, but this is already giving me some good ideas about what is reasonable as regards visits.

It is galling when they don't pay maintenance, but I totally agree that children aren't pay per view.

its the childs right to have a relationship with both parents......its the child who has the rightts,the parents have the responsibiliies. this is how the childrens act works

court is expensive and stressfull,avoid if possible

you could try mediation

babies benefit from little and often contact. court will expect you to work together towards overnights. a normal older childs contact pattern could be every other weekend plus tea/contact one midweek day/eve

dont want to see the ex?? third party handovers

dont trust him to care for the child? contact in a contact centre,observed by staff,aiming to move on to unsupervised regular contact

still not sure and have big concerns? CAFCASS can do a welfare report to give the judge an idea

there is alot to be done to promote contact,courts have seen it all before,including the distance/pick up/breastfeeding problems....there is always an answer or compromise

word of advice....think of your own compromise first,and offer it,before a judge ORDERS you to do as he thinks!!!

Tiffany Good job I'm not in law then eh? lol

Nah I agree children are not pay per view but on the flip side mothers shouldnt have to provide the care, love and the money while the exs do nothing apart from show their face when it suits. If you helped make a child then you should help provide for that child.

trouble is, it may well be the case that as Spero says 'it will almost always cause children lasting and serious emotional harm to be deprived of an opportunity to have a relationship with the person who makes up one half of their DNA.'; it will also generally cause them serious emotional harm to have a selfish fucking twat for a dad.

how come the dad doesn't have to display any consideration or care for the child whatsoever but it is still believed to be in the child's interest to have a relationship with him

I agree with you Seth.

Also I am now starting a contact centre with my 6mo DD's dad as he cannot be alone with her. My solicitor has told him that perhaps eventually we will move forward to him having unsupervised contact but in reality I will fight that with every penny that I have.

You won't all agree with me but I am waiting for the day the EX gets bored and buggers off out o our lives. There are a few occasions when a child would be better off without if you ask me.

I concur (see above). My DS (6 months at the time) got a lovely card from Exh for christmas. What a brilliant gift. And still no sign of any money winging its way into his trust fund......despite getting a lovely pot of money out of the house sale.

I meant I concur with Seth! Another poster beat me to it.

Yes, children have rights, parents responsibilities. I couldn't agree more.

My ex sees the whole thing from the perspective of his own rights. (As in: he has the right to see our DD at times and places of his choosing, and I have the responsibility to make that happen, even at the cost of the baby's comfort/physical wellbeing).

I am trying bloody hard to ensure that her rights are met, but I am beginning to come round to Seth's view. It is not worth it in every case. (I haven't got to that stage yet in my situation but I might soon.)

Quite simple really. Children who are insecure about their parentage tend to grow up with low self esteem leading to behavioural and emotional problems later such as dysfunctional relationships in adulthood. For that reason contact is nearly always in the best interests of children, even if the contact parent's behaviour leaves a lot to be desired by most people's standards.

Children of separated families also often do badly because the family doesn't have enough money so one of the most important contributions a parent can make to a child's welfare is financial.

Like parents,individual judges and court welfare officers in the UK have different attitudes towards the amount of contact/shared residence is best for children. My suggestion would be to accept that Dad is likely to be gradually allowed increased contact on his own. Rather than him taking the child to his own home at first perhaps you could suggest he collects the child from nursery and goes to the park, swimming or whatever for say an hour and then brings the child home to you. You could then offer to do some traveling at weekends so that it is shared.

The bottom line is two wrongs don't make a right and just because one parent is irresponsible doesn't justify the other behaving badly. Children need at least one parent to forgo "who is right and who is wrong" in favour of putting the welfare of children first.

I understand that. But with all the things on relationships on here about toxic mums or dads do you not believe that there are some cases when one parent not being present in a childs life could be a good thing? I'm not saying in any particular case on here, but theoretically?

I'm not stopping my EX from seeing my DD unsupervised because I'm trying to punish him, it's because as a cocaine taking, abusive & narcassitic individual he cannot be trusted with my daughter. This coupled with the fact that he has apent 1/2hr tops with DD alone in her whole life - even when we were together as a couple.

I don't know. It's very difficult.

Seth, yes a selfish irresponsible parent will harm a child, but no court is just going to take the mother's word for it. And the fact that he does want to see the child is already tipping the scales away from the selfish/irresponsible conclusion.

And if you refuse to let a child see the father because he won't pay, the law won't help you. Yes, it is infuriating beyond belief and I have heard a lot of judges make very stern comments but contact and maintenance are not linked. If he won't pay, take him to court.

It took two of you to make the child; one of you doesn't get the veto over whether or not the child has a relationship with both of you.

If you are going to stop contact without real and signficant reasons - violence, substance abuse, serious irresponsibility about supervision etc, etc, you may find yourself sucked into a long drawn out legal battle in which no one NO ONE can benefit, least of all your child.

This is good to know; I didn't realise contact and maintenance were treated totally separately. It does make sense of course.

STIDW - yes this is exactly what he and I had previously discussed - a gradual transition (there are lots of nice walks near the nursery that they can do together or I am happy to leave them alone together for an hour at my place if the XP really can't bear to see me). I'll put it to him AGAIN. He loves to create drama and conflict where there isn't any.