I just simply cannot get over how awful CAFCASS is

[whiteandnerdy]

There's nothing so soul destroying than to be a parent trying to convey your concern about the quality of service a govenment body is providing to your children only for them to put the phone down on you.

Yes I've written to my MP, my disgust for an organisation of such amateurs given the task of safeguarding the interests of our children in the most difficult of times for me is inexpressible.

aw thats not good! my experience was the opposite to yours.

why did they put the phone down on you!?

i found them completely over stretched....my own officer came to my final hearing heavily pregnant. she was on maternity leave but came to plead my case. she said she had a few other cases she wanted to see through too,bless her. she left CAFCASS, otherwise i would have written in,in praise of her.....she went the extra mile for my children and i wont forget that.

The court has asked me to change the child contact from me having the kids every weekend to every other weekend and requested CAFCASS to make an update report. As the Ex after 8 years has requested weekend contact because wants to have more fun with the DC(10&12), the children have really suffered intense mood swings. Their really having problems one is being seen by the local Child Mental Health service, I mean I feel like it's putting them through the same process as a devorce. So the children are bouncing off the walls, the pervious CAFCASS report made no mention on the childrens wishes in terms of their mothers request that my contact be cut from one of shared parenting to that of fortnightly contact.

Therefore I'm clearly unhappy with CAFCASS and the quality of reporting the childrens needs and wishes. The case has been passed from CAFCASS officer to CAFCASS officer, one of the officers is a student. I'm just very concerned that CAFCASS is failing my children.

It's generally thought that shared parenting should involve alternate weekends (unless one parent is so toxic that s/he is only allowed restricted, supervised contact) because otherwise one parent (who does weekends) gets to be the 'fun' 'treats' parent and the other one gets to be the one who's forever nagging about homework and tidying up and getting to and from school.
But I don't quite understand why seeing their mother every other weekend is causing your DC such distress if you have been having 'shared parenting' ie her having them all week and you having them every weekend. Or do you mean that she hasn't seen them for years and they have lost their bond with her?

These are the messages from last night ... this is the third week of me seeing them every other weekend after 8 years of seeing them every weekend. It's doing my head in, I simply don't know what it must be doing to my children.

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 19:53 ? I am so sad dad

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 19:55 ? Oh no have you the bed time sadness.

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 19:55 ? I am so sad dad.:?( yes

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 19:55 ? Yes

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 19:58 ? Are you all in bed now trying to fall asleep. Or are you still about getting ready to into bed.

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 19:58 ? Getting ready

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 20:03 ? Ok does your mom know your feeling sad. Maybe spend a little time just you and her.

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 19:31 ? Yes and no

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 20:40 ? It?s good that she knows how your feeling. And its good that I know how your feeling. Even if we can?t simply make you unsad. Stay strong and it will pass.

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 20:41 ? Help me please help me please help me please help me please help me

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 20:47 ? Try and shift your mind away from your sadness think that things will get better.

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 20:48 ? I cannot I need help

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 20:49 ? Ok see if your mom can just give you five minutes to help you with your sadness.

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 20:51 ? I cannot I am too scared

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 20:52 ? Shall I phone her?

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 20:53 ? Ok yes

14/03/11 20:54 ? I phone to inform her that DS(1) is messaging me telling me he is feeling very sad, however he is too scared to tell his mother how he is feeling. acknowledges that it is very hard parenting at the moment with DS(1)?s emotional state.

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 20:55 ? Ok she knows

DS(1)->MYSELF 14/03/11 20:56 ? Thank you so much

MYSELF->DS(1) 14/03/11 20:55 ? No problem were both here for you

I think CAFCASS are just completely overloaded and its like being given a teaspoon to shift water out of a sinking boat.

Plus it must be a terribly difficult job. Often in the type of cases they deal with, fairness is in the eye of the beholder. Mine was a bit of a waste of space, having no time to listen to my point of view and simply repeating "The kids need to spend more time with their mum" when erm.....the routine was at her behest....not mine!

But a friend's case was spot on. The CAFCASS report was bang on but the court didn't listen.

SO your contact with your DC has been reduced: again, a usual pattern of contact with DC is every other weekend and one midweek afternoon/evening every week. Are you not able to see them in the week because of work/distance?

OK you may find this a bit harsh and I apologise if I've got it wrong, but: have you been weeping and wailing at your DC about how upset you are over the reduced contact? They are 10 and 12, not toddlers, so it's not like a fortnight is a complete eternity to them and not like they don;t know when they are going to see you again. But if they see you becoming very upset, they will get upset at least partly out of feeling guilty and worrying about disloyalty.
I don;t know you or your backstory, is the relationship between you and their mother really poisoned, or can you try and work together on making the DC happy with the time they spend with each of you? Because her wish to see her children at the weekend and have fun with them is not actually that unreasonable.

Niceguy that's exactly what I think, that's why I say in the original mail their such amateurs. They simply don't have the capacity to the task required of them. It breaks my heart the amount of damage to children this must inadvertently be doing.

That's why I got such a harsh reaction from them, I'm guessing here but they know their failing but what else can they do but tell everyone who complains that their trouble makers and shouldn't be interfering as there the professionals and any concerns are unfounded. Meanwhile their just trying to churn through as much as possible and not trying to think about the damage there shoddy service is doing to peoples lives.

The contact is not the issue here, the report on the needs and wishes of my children is the issue that I have the problem with. Understanding what they want and why they want it, how they relate to each parent, these are the things that are important to understanding what contact the children would benifit from. As we are in disagreement we need to understand what it is our children want and need from contact.

SpringchickenGoldBrass - No the childrens contact has been reduced to their farther.

Hmm think about it SpringchickenGoldBrass I think your "a usual pattern of contact" has hit the nail on the head. How do my children feel about such a change to contact, if they've had a different structure of contact for ever since they can remember, I think the feelings and needs of children becomes that much more important than dealing out well that's what usually happens, becuase for my children that isn't what usually happens.

I hope you don't mind me telling people here (because they aren't understanding from what you've said and I think they might be more helpful with advice if they did a bit more...)

White&nerdy's 2dc have basically asked to have more contact with their dad.
I'm sure that must be hard for their mum, the reality being that they wanted to spend more time with their dad ie (as I see it) wanting to spend a larger part of the week with him than their mum and residency with mum would be equal or actually swap to dad. But he didn't ask for that, he simply asked for a midweek contact as the boys asked for it.

She refused to discuss this situation, refused mediation, refused to answer his letters from sol. So he had no choice but to take it to court to try and achieve what his dc were continually asking for.

It was only at court that his ex decided that actually she wanted to have the dc at the weekend too. Now call me cynical but to me that looks very much like she was trying to deflect the situation but also to ensure she kept getting her maintenance money. She denies that her motivation is money, but can't pay for school dinners and regularly gets the dc to phone dad asking him to put money on their account so they can eat.

Now CAFCASS have produced a report that does not contain the wishes and feelings of his dc but does contain a lot of mum's voice and the children saying things that children of that age would not use langauge for unless they had heard it.
This report was produced by a student who wasn't at court for questioning. It has glaring ommissions in (like the fact that ds1 is having therapy to help him deal with missing his dad so much - something his ex didn't tell him). And in some places it is misleading (mum says the boys are tired after the weekend coz they stay up late, but no mention of usual bedtime - yes dad lets them stay up till 8/9, she makes them go to bed at 7pm on monday night as they are overtired from dad letting you stay up late . We are talking about a 10 and 12 year old here. Not to mention the underminding of dad as a parent and PAS as I see it arising from such comments (and others).

Basically in expressing their wish to see more of their dad these dc have ended up seeing less of him. They are being punished by the court and cafcass for saying we want to see our dad more, something that can't be easy for a child to say and express to a mum who clearly doesn't want to hear it. How can it be right that CAFCASS can ignore this and mot even mention in teh report the dc want to see their dad more?

And yes the usual might be every other weekend. But for many years this family's situation has not been the 'usual'. Dad even had sole care of his dc and his ex's older dc when she vanished for a couple of months a few years ago.
So why should they suddenly have to accept the usual? Shouldn't cafcass and court not look at what is actually wanted and suitable for this individual situation.

White&nerdy has suggested a compromise of one week with mum one week with dad. How likely is that when the CAFCASS report is so rubbish, the student who did it is unavailable, and when he has tried to call them to discuss and then complain he gets told they can't speak to him about it. And now they put the phone down on him!?

I have to say for what he and the dc are going through I think he is doing remarkably well and really deserves some support here (and I hate to say it - like any mother posting similar would no doubt get)

I always thought the every other weekend and midweek access was the minimum courts gave and not necessarily an agreed best for the children amount of time?

I can't imagine seeing my children that little it must be heart-breaking.

My DC were not 'listened' to at all and the CAFCASS report gave a totally inaccurate description of what the DC wanted/needed. I insisted that the officer speak to my DC again but with a third party present. She spoke to my DC again but at their school with their headteacher as the third party. Then she produced a totally different report!!

I think at age 10+ children should be able to say how much time they want to spend with each parent as long as it's feasible, e.g. both parents can get them to school, etc.

Youllskimmer that IS how it should be. However w&n's ex is telling the dc that the court has said they can ONLY see dad every other weekend now and that the court know what they are doing and make the best decisions...
Sorry I should probably let him tell the background here. Bows out for now.

I don't have any advice, just feel sad for you.

I think the court system is letting a lot of children down. It is very very sad.

I hope you manage to work it out, I really do.

OK, I thought there must be some more back story here than we were getting. This does sound like Cafcass have fucked up.
Sorry W&N, but from the info given in your initial post, it was hard to see why the XP wanting to see DC alternate weekends was such a bad option. I hope you manage to do as Alldirections did and get a second report done in the presence of a neutral third party - or maybe some input from the therapist your DS is seeing?

is this a final order from the court?
did the children attend court ?

could teh children write a letter to cafcass/court asking for the contact to eb changed?

could you ask child advocacy to get involved - i think io saw somewhere -

www.nyas.net/

you need to make this about the children as cafcass ahve let you and them down and get it back to court.
also get camhs to write something?

Oh gilly ya spoil sport , it's difficult for me to tell the full back story, as I kind of think I'll just be trying to give a one sided story in some attempt to solicit sympathy from people I see as my peers.

I just felt the complete shock of having CAFCASS put the phone down on me. These are supposed to be professionals used to dealing with people under very difficult circumstances and able deal understand and process issues dealing with parents and children, and provide the required information to the court to help the judiciary identify what issues affect and are in the interests of the children. The attitude of dealing with parents by metaphorically sticking their fingers in their ears and going "La, La, La, not listening, La, La, La" kind of struck me as both unprofessional and unconstructive. Mehh I guess "We work with children and their families, and then advise the courts on what we consider to be in the best interests of individual children" just makes a good sound bite to put on the front of your website.

Hahaha, so much for getting sympathy I'm just having a little rant

SpringchickenGoldBrass - CAFCASS has been requested to make an 'update' on the childrens needs and wishes, and I really wanted to know from CAFCASS what this would entail as I thought the children were unable to express themselves in the previous report. Yeah so putting the phone down on me ... mehh didn't really allay my fears really now did it.

AllDirections - Yeah I asked about if the children would be happier under other circumstances, as they both said they felt their mother would be upset when asked about their own wishes and feelings. But I was told that the children are seen on their own and having their mother sat in the next room clearly has no affect on them as she's not in the same room when interviewed ... hmmm, convinced I am not!

zest01 - Mehh I'm an adult, full of all the irrational nonsense just like everyone else but I'll get through it. I guess I'm just worried about the children ...

cestlavielife - I've asked CAMHS to make a report and also been asking them for more general advice to help me deal with the children's emotional issues. The health care professionals do actually seem to give a damb about the children.

cestlavielife - about getting children write a letter, mehh would they just feel coerced into writting what they think I want them to write rather than giving a true reflection of how they feel?

Could the children write the letters away from either of you, in the presence, say, of the head teachers of their schools, sealed by them, addressed and posted by the teacher either parent present? Difficult to get round the question of the accusation of undue influence over what the children say. Both you and the teacher could stress that the children should each say what he/she wants, not what they think their parents want.

Getting the children to write letters is not a good idea - they will feel coerced and they are not taken into account in any serious way. I have had CAFCASS put the phone down on me - I have to accept that no matter how important my case is to me they have another 50 people who feel just the same.

I have had a long and arduous involvement with the family courts and CAFCASS - my children have ended up having a Lawyer appointed after the first CAFCASS officer went off on permanent sick leave and then retired. The officer apppointed to replace her was appointed 2 days before going to court. She knew nothing and called me by the wrong name. The Lawyer appointed is inept to quite a frightening level - she has even sent a copy of my daughters confidential NSPCC counselling records to her Father accidentally....... The whole process has been awful and a long way from resolved - the children have not seen their Father for 3 years and my only saving grace is because all this has gone on so long their Father has become unravelled and exposed himself as the nutter he is.

I know it is all due to overwork and huge caseloads but it has been such a scary situation at times that I have often felt like running away.

Do collect as much information as you can. DO you have a lawyer? Really keep presenting the information to the court - keep on trying to get yourself heard and is you feel that the CAFCASS report is unrepresentative in anyway tell them so - I am self repping in court and I have managed it. Oh and keep all the text messages you can - again they are documents of a sort

limping - as an aside how and where do you keep the texts? on the phone? do you transcirbe them?

i have 155 msgs of varying levels of abuse and nuttineess on my phone i need to keep....

i do see the issue of letters.
but maybe the camhs counsellor could be involved in that?

the chidlren can actually speak to the judge tho right? at that age? they can be called in?

Yes, I'm transcribe all text messages with any additional information of voice calls in the form of a diary which I or my solicitor can reference in terms of this was said by such and such on this day.

As for calling children into court, I'm not sure how useful that would be for a child seeing their parents in disagreement and being asked to choose one side or another ... wait a moment how about the creation of a body to assertain the feelings and wishes of the children by professionals than can understand issues that affect children. Hello CAFCASS ... execpt no matter how professional you are, if you don't have the resources to do your job properly you'll fail to provide a professional service.

no they don't call children to court on in extreme 'in the papers' situations. CAFCASS are apparently there to represent the children. My childrens Lawyer works for them apparently through the CAFCASS Officer. I kept some texts on a phone - not sure if there is another way and whiteandnerdy is right about keeping a diary - if it only serves as a timeline it is helpful for everyone

FWIW I had 24 pieces of evidence in my statement - all thins like Doctors/Teachers etc but I always always have to keep on referring people back to them - it all seems like a really random process sometimes - for instance it took over a year to get their Father's medical records even though he had done lots of wierd things including writing to the Judge to tell him he felt suicidal!!!!!!!!! It was and still is an extraordinary process which defies all common sense (but I guess I would say that) Keep on and on as politely as you can to CAFCASS - always put everything in writing and copy it to the court to go on file because again whole swathes of paperwork - really important stuff was missing from our file....

We are now in a situation where after psych reports (which are hard to get because they are expensive) and all that - if my ex is found to be guilty of either hitting me/hitting them/leaving them alone in his flat (all of which he did) then they will consider a no contact order. For the record he does not even bother writing to them even though he has been ordered two several times over the last two years so I think he might lose everything.

I know you know this but just keep on keeping on - I really do feel that keeping the children at the forefront of things is the best but re. writing letters and all that personally I think it puts too much pressure on them. I think asking the court to investigate their desires in this situation through a family psych is the best option - then you know it will be done kindly and within the right sort of setting and context.