Statement of Agreement - WWYD?

[KittyCatIsGettingFat]

XH and I have very recently split up, and we have no money for an expensive contested divorce. We're both keen to keep it amicable - so he says - but what would you all recommend as the correct childcare agreement to put in place?

He wants DD every second week, all week, but as she's only 21mo and have never spent more than three hours away from me I think this is unreasonable... I am proposing that as I am the SAHM I have her MOn-Fri, he has her Sat & Sun - until she goes to school, in which case we'll switch to every second weekend. Is this too much time with him?
I feel I'm compromising but also feel really anxious about DD being away from me for so long, as XH has never been involved in childcare except bathing her every night - I do all the feeds, night wakes, playing, putting down, nappies, etc etc etc...

Help! I'm confused and need advice... Thanks.

Have you considered mediation?

Mediation

It will probably still cost but be cheaper than court.

I would presume 50/50 and work from there. He's her dad. Why shouldn't he have her half the time?

Firstly I think you need to be able to articulate why you feel that DD shouldn't be away from you. So far the fact that she's "...never spent more than three hours away" isn't a very solid reason.

What i mean is. Do you doubt his ability to take care of DD? Would he put her in danger?

Once you've identified the reasons, you need to put aside the ones where they are based on your own needs. So as per above, is the time away because YOU will miss her?

So for example the point you raised about him never having been involved, well he still won't be either if you don't allow him to and potentially to make the same mistakes you did. A sensible compromise would be to perhaps build the time up with you showing him the usual routine.

The point I'm driving at is that you need to do what is best for DD, not you. The two are not always the same.

Another way to look at it would be to put yourself in his shoes. What would you say if he said to you that you could only see DD at weekends and once at school once a fortnight? I suspect you'd think that was totally unreasonable. Yet that's in effect what you are saying.

Oh and don't forget that by offering every weekend, you end up being the parent who does all the routine/mundane stuff whilst he gets the quality time at the weekends.

If you don't like a week, how about starting with him 3 days, you 4?

As hollow as it sounds now, one day you will probably CRAVE the down time so don't set a restrictive system up now.

Plus, take advantage of the fact he's keen. A lot of men are happy to simply walk away from their obligations. Your's isn't doing.

Lastly, rule #1 of being a single parent. Learn to pick your battles. There are so many of them yet to come. Just wait til he doesn't pay his maintenance, his next GF or doesn't want DD for certain weekends because he's going out etc.

Good luck. It's a rollercoaster ride for a while but honestly one day things do get better.

Well I think your ex is confusing shared parenting with meaning equal parenting time. You can have shared care without equal parenting time.

He may be saying alternate weeks each but how is he proposing to manage this? If you are a SAHM I assume he is working. How is he going to meet his work commitments and have every other week taking care of a toddler? If he is planning on using a nanny or child care it seems more reasonable for your dd to be with a parent rather than a stranger who won't be part of their life in the future. So firstly you need to be sure he is being serious about this arrangement or whether he is pushing his luck hoping to be compromised down to what he actually wants. Or whether he is just completely clueless on what bringing up a child involves in reality.

And if he is really serious about an alternative week situation how are you both going to hold down a job in that situation? There aren't many employers happy for you to turn up every other week.

Does he realise that if you get the child benefit (even with completely equal time) he won't be able to claim CTC etc and will probably still have to pay you maintenance?

You and he both need to consider what effect this huge change will have on your dd. She has already had some big changes in her life with you separating and now her usual routine is going to be changed too.

If you do go for a 50/50 parenting time agreement I would suggest you need to consider alternatives. Such as a fortnightly arangement of 3day mum, 4 days dad 4 days mum 3 day dad which may work better for a younger child.

There is much to consider and many ways for sharing your parenting and the time with each parent.
Look here for some advice on what to consider and also some example parenting plans.

home.clara.net/spig/p-plans/spa-ttc.htm

Also re the divorce. It doesn't have to be expensive and if you can't afford it then it may be worth waiting on that.
If you have assets to split then do get some advice. IT's amazing how many 'we can do this amicable' divorces end up with one party trying to fleece the other.
The legal thread here can be helpful to find out what things you need to know and consider. For example if you do end up having your dd more of the time then you would be entitled to a bigger share of the assets in order to provide her with a home. However with a 50/50 parenting time situation he would argue his need for housing amd providing a home for dd is equal to yours.

Hi,

I'll probably get shot down for this, but I do not believe that when parents split up, at whatever stage, the young child should be put in a situation whereby they spend overnights away from the primary parent. There is a wealth of very thorough research that advises against children under the age of 2 or even 3 years old spending overnights away from their primary carer.

Surely both parents have to take time out & think seriously about the affect of having alternative overnights has on the child. It shouldnt be about how the non-resident parent feels - not at this stage of the child's upbringing. I believe that too often too much emphasis is placed on the non-resident's parents needs & not on the emotional & psychological affect on the child.
The non-resident parent can spend good quality time with the child without insisting on overnights until the child is of an age to cope with that. IE when the child can express their feelings more easily.

As I said, I'll probably get a lot of rresidence to this train of throught, but is ssomething I feel strongly about.

as you second guessed, I think you are very misguided rubin

Rubin, I suspect you would think differently if your ex/OH was the resident parent and you are told you can't have the child overnight at all.

Are you seriously suggesting that when my son was 18 months old and I was the main carer, that I was harming him when he stayed at her place at the weekends?

Oh and what about if say there's a married couple where she is a SAHM and he works full time?

As the main carer, are they psychologically harming their young child if the mum decides to go on a girly weekend with her mates and leaves the child with shock horror the dad!?!?!? Perhaps he should be CRB checked first....just in case eh?

"There is a wealth of very thorough research that advises against children under the age of 2 or even 3 years old spending overnights away from their primary carer. "

really?? links to the research please

surely in the case of shared parenting - both parents are primary carers. how do you differentiate. just because one is around more as SAH parent?

and oy gilly - a nanny or child minder wont be a stranger for long and a good one may well remain in the child's life even when child moves on. my dc really looking forward to seeing our ex-nanny again next week when she visits...

cestlavielife - a nanny/childminder/nursery worker is not a family member. While they may become a close friend it is not guaranteed. And with very young children who may become attached to the carer it can be very difficult when they leave. EG my sister as a nanny was asked not to visit again after she left her job as the child became very distressed when she went to leave after a visit.

IMO in the OP's case it is better for the child to be looked after by their mother if she is willing and able to (as she always has) rather than to go to their father's on some equal timeshare basis only to be put with someone who is a stranger for their carer.

I also believe that should the OP go to work she should offer their ex the chance to care for their child himself on those days rather than use childcare (assuming he is willing and able to change his work and life around to do so - yes some men are and will).

Whether the ex in either case is willing and able to do this should be the deciding factor in deciding on child care arrangements

And yes I'm talking generally before people start jumping on about abusive ex's etc...

If the dad is working then it would be daft for the child to stay with him every other week. If he's that keen then every weekend would make more sense.

I feel the same as Rubin. No idea about research but I do think too much emphasis is placed on the non resident parent having the child 'enough' and too little placed on the child's best interests.

Stability is imo really important. But you have to work with the individuals involved and the situation as it stands...for instance when the NRP has never done much childcare it's right to think he might struggle to understand the child's requirements initially - however if he wants to learn about these it probably won't take him long to figure it out.

Has he got the time off/commitment/etc to have her for a full week at a time? Or will it involve her being sent to daycare while he is at work and you are meanwhile at home without your child? That would be really silly and not in her best interests.

Weekends might work far better if he works during the week (presuming that's why he's never really done the childcare).

if you go 50/50 you won't be entitled to child support.
Wrong. The person who receives the child benefit is still classed as the primary carer and the ex will still need to pay maintenance, albeit at a reduced rate to reflect the fact he has the kids more.

Access & maintenance should always be treated separately. What sort of person dictates how much the other parent can see their child because they fear more contact = less money???

I'm shocked at some of the opinions on this thread. So basically in some people's world, the resident parent is harming their child if they have overnight contact with the ex which is rather convenient as if I went against that gem of advice then I'd not be getting child support which hey, thats what kids are now aren't they? A source of revenue from the ex and passport to government benefits.

And we wonder why the country is on its arse?

This is why I'm going to tell both my children:

1. Don't give up a career so you are financially dependent on another person.

1. Don't be the one to carry on working and support someone else. Unless you want to become a bit part parent if you split.

Split child care and working equally.

If you think your partner male or female isn't agreeable to that don't have children with them.

And as for the 'generous' every other weekend, give it a try and see how generous you think it is.

I don't see how your values as a couple can remain after a split. One house one salary, two houses one salary. Something has to give.

Thing is you can't just assume that the way things have been was working. Clearly it wasn't or they wouldn't be separating. Many Dads find that on separation they would actually have liked and want more time with tehir children. But society expects them to be the breadwinner and mum to be the carer.

It's only when you step outside that 'normal' situation that you realise that actually this isn't what I want.

So you can't simply say that things should continue exactly as they were before.

On the other hand dad can't expect to get exactly what he wants now either.

OP has already said money is an issue in this relationship split. So I would hazzard a guess that he is probably thinking equal parenting time means he won't have to pay maintenance (which he still would btw) and he'll get help with housing costs and child care costs etc (he may but not because he has a child as he won't have the child benefit)

The money issues in this relationship will not be solved by an alternative week situation. In fact both parents will struggle to hold down a job (as I mentioned above) and it is likely they will both have to be SAHP in order to maintain it, or dad will have to use childcare.
So dad needs to consider if that suggestion is in his dc's best interests. As I pointed out above it does not seem to be to be in the child's best interest to go to childcare when a parent is willing and able to care for them instead.

OP this is all very new for you and a very confusing time I'm sure. It is hard enough dealing with the end of a relationship, but then to also potentially have your whole world turned upside down in terms of caring for you child, finding a job etc is a lot to handle.
Please be kind to yourself and don't rush into any decisions yet.

Try and find out from your ex is he understands the implications of his proposal. Ask him how he would juggle work and childcare (my bet is he's expecting you to have dd during the day and he will have her overnight OR to use some kind of childcare)
Ask him how he plans to pay for that childcare along with housing and maintenance.

Ask him how he thinks your dd will react and feel to being away from her mum for a week at a time and that you appreciate he wants to see her regularly, just as you do, and that whatever arrangement is decided should have your dd's best interests at heart, not his and not yours.

Please do work through this website which may help you see that there are alternatives to his simply seeing your dd on alterate weekends. You need to find a solution that works for you all so you should consider alternatives and be prepared to swap and change them if they don't work and as your dd gets older
home.clara.net/spig/p-plans/spa-ttc.htm

Also get this book for yourself and for him. It may help you both with putting your dd's interests first.

www.fnf.org.uk/shop/product/categoryid/21/productid/81

Remember your ex loves your dd just as you do. Just because he hasn't been a handson dad up til now doesn't mean he can't learn to be (as you did) given the chance.
And please don't assume that because he was the one working before that he is happy for that to continue or that it should remain the case or that only mum's can care for their children successfully.

Your dd will benefit enormously from two parents who are both important parts of her life, even if they are not together any more.

Hard as it is you need to try and work together to find the best solution. Not easy with so much hurt and upset between you both. Perhaps you could suggest some mediation to him as a way forward to explore the options here if you find it hard to speak with each other about it all right now.

Big hugs to you, I know these decisions aren't easy.

Niceguy I'm with you, really shocked at some of the opinions here that somehow because a mother is a mother she's more entitled to raise the child than the father.

I think it's something that causes a whole lot of difficulties. Fathers get shot down so much as NRPs when they don't see the children, yet there is this awful stuff that goes on too about them not having the right to have an equal shot at time with their kids, raising their kids etc.

Yes, exactly, it's about keeping it as close as possible to what the child is already used to. So if thatw ere the father being at home and the mother out at work all week, I'd advocate keeping it pretty much the same.

And if changes were to be made, making them gradually. Surely this makes sense if the child is to be traumatised as little as possible by the split.

It doesn't have to be sudden, anyway. The father might want to take on more of a role in caring for his child but it should be gradual and doesnt have to be implemented immediately. It can be increased gradually.

He could in theory keep coming over to give her her bath every night, if that was acceptable to both parents - I don't see why not. Negotiate,negotiate, negotiate but keep her at the forefront of it. And not seeing mummy for seven days WILL be a big deal to her right now. So why do it - why not a more gradual and gentle approach?

He might just be trying to be organised about it as though it were a work timetable or something. It isn't and you need to be much more flexible with young children.

Not just dividing the assets so it's all sorted asap. It won't work best like that. It has to be up for constant review because that's what children are like. Their needs change all the time. Less so as they get bigger obv.