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Offering contact but am being taken to court

67 replies

ellekay · 09/11/2010 20:52

Hi,

I have a beautiful daughter from a 4 week fling with a man who I thought was great but turned out to be very different.
I left him as soon as it became clear that I realised that this was definitely not someone who was right for me and wouldn't be right for me to pretend he was for the sake of a child. I was 5 weeks pregnant when I left him. Since then he has harassed me, sent me gifts, refused to accept that I didn't want him at the birth, requested inappropriate contact arrangements (e.g. wanted to take DD away from me when she was a few hours old to see her, wanted to take her out 'for an hour or two' on his own when she was a couple of weeks old and had chronic reflux, refused the contact I am offering, refused the offer of mediation and is now taking me to court as he wants to have her from 10am to 6pm every Sat or Sun. She is 8 months old, completely breast fed and has not seen him since August.
She does not know him, has not spent any time alone with him, he doesn't know how to engage with a baby and she and I have had an intense 8 months together - me as a single parent and her being quite ill with the reflux. At 3 weeks she choked and stopped breathing, so the first 6 months were terrifying.
I am now waiting for a court date. I don't understand why he would try and get access for an entire day. He has no idea what being a parent is about. The whole thing with him has caused me incredible amounts of stress and anxiety. He now wants to waste a fortune going to court when Im offering contact (through a solicitor now after 6 months of me and my family trying to work things out with him) and also mediation.
I'm exhausted and before I wanted to ensure he was involved and was politically correct about him as the dad. now I just want him out of my life...unfortunately this is not going to happen.
Wondered if anyone has any similar experiences of the court process for a baby of this age or any words of support, encouragement....anything positive...this whole thing is so stressful and it worries me so much to think that this man who is so angry with me thinks it would be ok to take a bf baby who doesn't know him away for an entire day. it worries me that this is what my future will be like. a series of court hearings because he is exteremely stubborn and will use his parental responsibility to the letter of the law, rather than doing what is right for my DD.

OP posts:
mjinhiding · 10/11/2010 22:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

houseproject · 10/11/2010 22:51

Hi,

Just to clarify - the OP was concerned about court and costs. Legal representation isn't necessary for family court, you can take legal advice beforehand but it's not necessary to have a barrister present at the hearing and you can take in a friend acting as a Mckenzie friend.I choose not to use that term but apologise if it caused confusion. A Mckenzie friend isn't allowed to speak to the court but is there for moral support, offer to take notes etc.
It is highly likely that a CAFCASS report would be ordered anyway and the recommendations tend to flow from this.

pleasechange · 11/11/2010 08:40

He doesn't sound abusive to me. Sounds like he is getting exasperrated though at having so little access to his child.

OP some of your comments give me an inkling of what's going on here:

" don't understand why he would try and get access for an entire day" - really, as a parent, you cannot understand the desire to see your baby for a day?

"He has no idea what being a parent is about" - and did you, before you had the baby? Your attitude in wanting 'rid' of the father suggests not

"I just want him out of my life" - but you made the choice to have sex with him and in doing so you conceived a child, whose father he is

"use his parental responsibility to the letter of the law, rather than doing what is right for my DD" - it is not right for your DD as she grows up to see little of her father

Fwiw - it is perfectly possible for someone to look after a bf baby for 8 hours. Just express some milk and send it with her

GypsyMoth · 11/11/2010 09:52

Actually the Mckenzie friend has to have permission by the other party to be in the courtroom....... Which is often denied!

nannynobnobs · 11/11/2010 10:05

God, I wouldn't have wanted DD1's 'dad' in the labour room. I broke up with him before I found out I was pregnant. It was not his right in the slightest to attend the birth and I would have loathed him being there.

I'm not surprised you are all over the place OP, from the sounds of it you don't actually know this guy that well if it was only a fling. I would not feel comfortable handing my baby over to a man I did not know very well, father or not.

mjinhiding · 11/11/2010 10:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

pleasechange · 11/11/2010 10:19

"I would not feel comfortable handing my baby over to a man I did not know very well" - but comfortable enough to have unprotected sex with him.............

readywithwellies · 11/11/2010 13:01

With you allnew. But may not have been unprotected. Accidents happen but why put yourself in that situation?

mjinhiding · 11/11/2010 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

GypsyMoth · 11/11/2010 13:23

It's not just your baby to handover tho, you don't OWN the baby!! You have a responsibility to be a parent, as does the father...... The baby has a right to have both of you.

It is tough, because the courts can act on the baby's behalf and DEMAND the father is given reasonable access....... Or maybe reverse the roles and baby goes to live with dad of you don't comply? This I'd becoming a bit more common these days..... A transferral of residency. Don't let it come to that op!

racetobed · 11/11/2010 19:46

" it is perfectly possible for someone to look after a bf baby for 8 hours. Just express some milk and send it with her"

Oh really? I was a champion breastfeeder, brilliant supply and brilliant suckling. But could not express for the life of me and found it excruciatingly painful.

Sorry, but the BABY comes first here. If the baby is breast fed only, then only breastmilk will do.
If expressing is possible, and the woman is happy to, then fine. But no woman should have to do anything to HER body just so the father can have access as he pleases. I don't see why he can't have the baby in between feeds until she's off the breast.

And I think some posters' judgements on the OP's sexual behaviour are WAY out of order here. HE also had unprotected sex with her outside of a committed relationship, and any man who does so carries the risk that he will impregnate her and that the resultant child will be bound to her for as long as both mother and child choose to breastfeed, and his access will be determined by that.

I'm not condoning the OP's desire to remove her dd's father from their lives - and I note that she herself admits this is wrong as well. But I do think her reactions are perfectly understandable - breastfeeding produces an overwhelmingly intense hormonal bond between mother and child. Of course she doesn't want to hand her baby over to him for a day. But if both parties work together to develop some trust, then maybe it will get easier for her. Scare stories about residency swops are hardly going to help.

ellekay · 11/11/2010 19:57

Thanks for your comments. Its interesting to see the different persepctives.

A few things to say and answer some of your questions:

First of all. Because he hasn't disappeared and is paying child maintenance doesn't make his behaviour right. He doesn't get a big pat on the back for wanting to be her dad because he is so angry about my leaving him that ultimately anything other than him being with her all the time is going to be a disappointment. He is 42, I am 34 and he told his family he wanted to marry me after 2 weeks. He feels humiliated amongst other things.
SparklingExplosionGoldenBrass - I don't think he will fuck off unfortunately for me (but good for my daughter). He is someone who enjoys the battle - another thing I realised during our short relationship. (He is the guy who goes up to grown people on the train and tells them to take their feet off the seats.)

The other reasons I left him at 4 weeks pregnant was because of racist behaviour (I would never accept this from anyone let alone someone who is supposed to be my partner) and deviant sexual behviour which came to light once I was pregnant.

I absolutely agree with those who say the dad should be a part of her life. At 4 months pregnant I sent him an email to ask him to read a book called 'putting children first - a guide for separated parents' as I wanted him to move away from seeing us as a couple and as two parents who could input into our daughters life. I suggested we could meet to discuss it and put together a parenting plan. He never replied.
When I was 8 months pregnant he contacted my sister to ask why I had split up with him (Despite me having explained it several times).

Absolute load of rubbish to say it is the mans right ot be at the birth. Damn right racetobed - The most intimate, difficult, emotional, stressful, beautiful thing in a woman's life. Only trusted and respected people should be there and he was neither unfortunately.
SparklingGoldenBrass you are spot on with your comments. Damn right Karmadevil.

I would question whether anyone would allow someone that they didn't trust to take their newborn out of their sight at a young age.
That's the difference MJinhiding - the man you left your newborn with was your husband. You trusted him. This man has done nothing to earn my trust yet. He needs to earn it. It's bullshit to say that you don't need a relationship with the mother - a respectful relationship between mother and father is good for the parents and best for the child. Pretending that his role is a substitute for my role when she is so young is naive and ignorant at best and damaging at worst.

All the choices and decisions I have made are putting my daughter first - including allowing the man into my home in order to provide the best possible environment for her to get to know her father. I also allowed him to come with his mother so she could meet her grandmother. Every time we agreed something, a week would pass, he would clearly go away and be gutted we weren't together, that he couldn't see his daughter whenever he wanted and would send emails or texts making further demands. I wanted to establish that my daughter was comfortable with him and happy and that he understood that as her mother there is a genuine need for him to be able to listen to me and respect my role as our daughters primary carer.
An example.
We were out walking in the park on one of his visits in the summer. She was sleeping in the pram. He was pushing. I let him walk off on his own in the park to feel like he was having some time with her. After 10 minutes I saw him touching her in the pram. over and over. I walked over and she was screaming. I asked why he'd touched her and woken her up. He said "I couldn't help myself" and when I asked why he hadn't called me over, he said "I'm her Dad". Anyone in their right mind would call over the mum if a small baby is crying. He doesn't like to acknowledge that my relationship with her is any different to his - but it is. Physiologically and emotionally. Particularly at this age.

You may also be interested to know that he doesn't like the name I chose for her and has never called her by her name.
I could go on but I won't because it depresses me.

I have a solicitor who specialises in family law and is a member of the Resolution body. The court we will go to is a County Court and not a Magistrates Court. I have documented everything with her.
My solicitor believes that his behaviour is harrassment and when I originally spoke to her when my daughter was 3 weeks old for the first time she suggested that his behaviour would warrant a restraining order. I decided to try and negotiate with him myself and through my family. To avoid all of this emotional and financial stress. In the end it was fruitless.

A couple of other questions some of you asked:

The presents each had a note on them explaining why they were relevant - e.g. a dvd was one of his favourite films (a love story) and he wanted me to have it. None of the presents was for the baby.

The contact offer I proposed with the solicitor's input was 1 hour a week for 2 months until he proved that he would listen to me and learn how to care for our daughter. Then moving to two hours a week. Also some additional days for Christmas.
The solicitor has said that there is no way that a judge would allow a full days contact until she is about 2 years old.
The contact would be built up over time. Supervised. Unsupervised. one hour. 3 hours. etc.

All I want and have ever wanted is for my daughter to feel comfortable in his presence and for me to know that he is making the best decisions for her. All his behaviour to now has shown me that he is only thinking about himself. He is not thinking as a parent. No parent would put their 8 month old in the hands of a stranger for an entire day - particularly one who is untrustworthy and has his own interests at heart. That is what concerns me. If she is unhappy, upset, screams etc it is a genuine concern that he wouldn't tell me becuase he knows that I would want to shorten the visits or be present until she felt more secure.
I don't want to go to court. It's the last thing I want. I have offered contact, it has been refused. Not even a negotiation. The mediation has been refused. He wants his day in court. And when we go there all his bridges with me will be burned.

OP posts:
Sassybeast · 11/11/2010 20:01

He is her father. He has every bit as much right as you do to spend time with her, love her and watch her growing up. But perhaps YOU are the one who needs to do the most growing up. What happens when she's 14 and crying her eyes out because the poor man who wants to be a dad to her has long since got fed up with the angst and the fighting and has moved on. Will you be honest with her ? Will you tell her that you trusted him enough to have unprotected sex with him but didn't trust him enough to let him know his child? Will you tell her that it's becaue of your actions that she doesn't have a daddy ? Or will you spin her some line about him being a shit and not wanting to know her ?
I hope you do get to court - and I hope that he gets the access he wants.

lollopyT · 11/11/2010 20:07

A Mckenzie friend has to have the permission of the Judge to be in the room. The judge may refuse, but is required to explain why s/he is refusing you this help.

See:

www.fnf.org.uk/law-and-information/mckenzie-friends

ellekay · 11/11/2010 20:10

Sassybeast. How do you know I had unprotected sex? I didn't.
As for the rest of your post it doesn't even deserve a response.
Go and give some other lucky posters some of your contructive and intelligent advice.

OP posts:
pleasechange · 11/11/2010 20:22

You offered him an hour a week - Oh my God. And you wonder why he wants more - Really?

So no unprotected sex but you got pg - if you're having sex with a virtual stranger whose baby you don't want to have then you clearly weren't safe enough

GypsyMoth · 11/11/2010 20:23

It's county court for everyone, wether you have a barrister or solicitor, you don't get to choose

So why are their so many fathers with babies having access overnight, for weekends, yes for FULL days!?? Your case is no different.......and all you say about his best interests, using her, etc etc won't bother the courts! From experience, breastfeeding won't matter to the courts much either......and your child will probably be over a year by the time it gets to court, older babies go on contact slot

As for building the contact up. Yes, but it will be done quickly, not at YOUR pace.

Really, you need to forget about trying to impress judges about 'bonds with the mother' and hormones!!!! The most important thing in the courts eyes will be the father/daughter relationship. And the father WILL get it

You sound very hostile.... The courts will put you straight tho. They are used to mothers who block contact for no real reason and will see straight through you.

Librashavinganotherbiscuit · 11/11/2010 20:24

" I let him walk off on his own in the park to feel like he was having some time with her. After 10 minutes I saw him touching her in the pram. over and over. I walked over and she was screaming. I asked why he'd touched her and woken her up. He said "I couldn't help myself" and when I asked why he hadn't called me over, he said "I'm her Dad". Anyone in their right mind would call over the mum if a small baby is crying."

Actaully I would call this quite normal behaviour, sometimes I pick up my DC when they are sleeping just because I want to have a cuddle as they are so gorgeous and I would quite happily have their Dad look after them when they are crying I am not sure why you think only the mother is good enough...

Whilst I think he DOES have issues re:the gifts I also think you have issues over his having access and are a control freak.

Sassybeast · 11/11/2010 20:24

Your child is not a possession or a toy. And you need to grow up - the name that 'you' chose for her - why didn't you agree a name together ? Trust me - you will damage her if you carry on with this attitude and take that from someone who HAS experience of court proceedings involving a child of this age. NOTHING that you have said about his actions/attitudes and behaviour will convince Cafcass or the court that he is anything other than a man who wants to be a father - he touced her face Hmm I have asneaking suspicion that this man was nothing but a sperm donor for you and it's turned into a nighmare because he actually wants to be a lot more.

GypsyMoth · 11/11/2010 20:25

Try posting your op at www.wikivorce.com in the child residency forum

They are good over there

lollopyT · 11/11/2010 20:27

The most important thing in the 'courts eyes' is supossed to be the welfare of the child.

GypsyMoth · 11/11/2010 20:28

Sassy, I thought that about the name too.......

And yet you 'told' him to read a book? About how YOU wanted the baby brought up? And she cried and thought it bad he tried to sooth her and didn't call for you?? Dear lord......

He sounds a confident and very caring father........ Good for him

ChocHobNob · 11/11/2010 20:33

Your solicitor is not correct saying he will not get a full days contact until the child is over 2. The reason he is taking you to court, could well be because his solicitor/legal adviser is telling him he will get more contact than 1 hour a week.

It might just be the way it is coming across in type but you sound like you are being very obstructive to contact.

He is a stranger to you and you will not leave your child in a stranger's company ... you were a stranger to him, but he had no choice but to leave his child with you, a stranger, who had no parenting skills.

You need to stop thinking of him as a stranger and start thinking of him as an equal parent, because that is what he is.

Unfortunately, you appear to both be as bad as each other, neither of you willing to budge or compromise, so court is the only option, because in my opinion, he isn't displaying the traits of someone who is using a child to get at you. He appears to want to have a meaningful relationship with his child and you are putting obstacles in his way. He is fighting that, just like you would fight to see your child.

Jellykat · 11/11/2010 21:07

ellekay I have been in exactly the same situation as you, and can see exactly where you are coming from!

Contact at your DDs age has to revolve around her daily routine i.e what time she is fed, when she usually sleeps in the day etc. make sure these details are considered, when the times etc are negotiated, they are relevant and should be adhered to, to maintain stability for your DD.The contact times will start as small,and increase over time as your daughter becomes used to him. This is either written in the order,or may be through a review.

Keep communication in the future between you and the dad to a minimum,details like him not being allowed on your premises,an agreement for him to return all her belongings ,even a note handed over recording what she has eaten that day,can be included in the order.

To some,this may be considered extreme, but it all helps to avoid endless arguements and therefore a horrid situation for you and your DD.

I will also add-my XPs motives where not simply to see DS2 but to make my life hell too,he took me to court 4 times over 3 years,even though i completely adhered to each order,and he wrote letters to my solicitor every week, which had to be replied to!Just to prove his motives were dubious when being potty trained my DS2 told him he needed a wee while in the car,his dad refused to stop,and he'd just have to wee himself!my DS2 had to sit soaking in wee in his/my car seat for an hour,until he was returned.

After the last hearing,my solicitor said to me,i'll be very suprised if you see him again!because she knew what his real motives were. He went on holiday during the next supposed contact,with no notification,and 8 years on its a present at Christmas and Birthday...

Continue to be wary ellekay!!

Jellykat · 11/11/2010 21:31

N.B Do any of you actually know what it feels like to have your screaming child, who is clutching onto your jumper with both hands, pulled off you?? It is horrific!..

yes the man the OP refers to,is the dad,and has 'rights' but her DD doesn't know what that means at her age!.Her DD isn't saying to herself "Oh it's ok,it's only Dad".

The OP is worried,which is natural,and some of these postings are horrible.

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