Letter proposing overnight contact

[Lurpak]

Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but hoping for some advice about my response to a letter received from my XH solicitor last week requesting regular overnight visits

I'm hoping if I copy and paste my response there is enough info on there for you to get a good enough idea of the back story.

Here it is:

"I have received your letter regarding contact arrangements for [child]. As explained on many previous occasions, I do not think overnight contact is appropriate until regular day contact has be established and sustained over a period of time. I feel this is in [child?s] best interests. As there has been very minimal and sporadic contact this entire year I don?t think it is appropriate to begin overnight stays yet.

I am willing to make [child] available for contact at the following dates and times:

Saturday 6th November 9am ? 6pm
Saturday 20th November 9am - 6pm
Thursday 25th November 3pm ? 6pm
Saturday 4th December 9am ? 6pm
Thursday 16th December 3pm ? 6pm
Saturday 18th December 9am ? 6pm
Thursday 23rd December 9am ? 6pm

If these arrangements are kept to, and no cancellations made then I am willing to discuss an increase in contact and contact over Christmas.
As yet you have not proved to be reliable, contact has been re-arranged and cancelled at short notice, and the recent let down in promised monies only further proves your unreliability. I also requested that [child] not be introduced to your girlfriend too soon. I feel it is crucial that [chil] has a chance to rebuild his relationship with you before encountering new ones, and was disappointed that you ignored my request.

For these reasons, and the lack of recent contact, I am not willing to agree to any more contact than what is stated above. I hope you can understand my reasoning, and I hope regular contact can finally be established after 5 years of trying.

I will leave you to decide what you think the best course of action is regarding maintenance. I trust you will do the right thing."

I just need to know if this response is fair?

TIA

Well I would say so but I have no legal training. Hopefully someone with some sounds advice will come along, if not then the Legal topic people are helpful. Good luck.

Thank you Sue...will hold out here for a bit and then pehaps repost in legal.

I wouldn't bring money into it, just keep it about contact.

I'm not sure the court would say no new partner allowed either.

He mentioned maintence in the letter. Said basically if I go to CSA then I will get less, or he could pay me what he can afford each month. He's self employed and hides alot of his income.

Ds came home after meeting her saying it was his Mum Which is why I've made the point.

Sorry I know it seems like I'm drip feeding, but just so much I could've have written in my OP and I wanted to keep it as short as poss!

That's useful to know though cargirl (the girlfriend point)

Lurpak - if cafcass are involved they will probably mention that it's not good especially the calling her "mum" bit but you need to be seen as being looking out for your dc best interests.

I would still focus on the rebuilding a relationship thingy - perhaps you need to timetable in when you see overnights happening - December?

Have you asked your dc what they think/want would they like to stay overnight?

Take out any and all references to maintenance. Deal with that in a separate letter.

I would also make an offer to a bit more flexibility over the actual days for contact even if you stay firm on the amount of contact and the limitations on overnights.

As it stands you have set out a schedule of contact on a "take it or leave it" basis. That could be seen as a bit dictatorial. It may be better to present it as a "Here is my proposal for contact over the coming months. If these dates are not acceptable please let me know your alternative proposals." If this letter ends up being shown in court it might help if you can show yourself to been flexible and willing to compromise.

Thank you moros.. I thought it might come across like that, although I meant the amount of contact, not the specific times. I will re-word. Should I also take out this reference to maintenence- "and the recent let down in promised monies only further proves your unreliability" ?

Sorry CarGirl - I should've been clearer. He thought she was his mum. Although she's half his age . He says he would like to stay over, but I just can't see him being comfortable. He never stays anywhere without me. I'm not sure he's old enough to properly understand.

YOu could actually be very clever and state how fantastic it will be for him to start having ds overnight and that he needs to increase in contact so that ds will be happy to stay

It will be in your ds long term best interests, you will get a break and your ex will look more of an arse if he won't work with you to achieve what he has said he wants.

CarGirl - It is want I eventually want. It will be fantastic for DS to have a proper place in his Dad's life, and I'll get a layin Honestly, I really hope it works out like that.

Well I would retone your letter agreeing with him that it is fantastic that he wants your ds overnight but you feel that you need to increase daytime contact for a few weeks first prior to the firt overnight.

Let your ex think it was all his idea

Thank you for all your advice - I have tweaked the letter and will send today!

Firstly how old is your child? And Also ist he/she is wanting contact and there are no other issues to consider...?

You need to word your letter with much fewer 'I's' and be more child focused and positive. Be matter of fact and less emotional ( I know you want to point out what a sh1t he has been, but it achieves nothing for your child). So perhaps something more like this....

I am writing with regard to your letter regarding contact with [child].

Both [Child] and myself are keen for contact to resume and for a regular pattern to be established.

As contact up till now has been sporadic and subject to short notice changes I propose we start with establishing regular and consistant contact first.
Once this is working well we can then look at increasing contact to include overnights.
I am sure you can appreciate that [child] will be more comfortable and reassured about staying overnight once a regular and consistant pattern for contact has been established.

To this end I propose the following contact on Saturdays from 9am to 6pm:

Saturday 6th November 9am - 6pm
Saturday 20th November 9am - 6pm
Saturday 4th December 9am - 6pm
Saturday 18th December 9am - 6pm

Once the fortnightly Saturday contacts are established, and [child] feels more confident that agreed contact will occur without last minute changes or cancellations, then we can look at moving to overnight contact.

In addition to the above Saturdays, I would suggest a midweek contact may be helpful to [child] in re-establishing and maintaining [his/her] relationship with you. This will have the added benefit of reducing the length of time between contact weekends for you both.

To this end I also propose the following Thursdays from 3am to 6pm. Please remember that you will need to make arrangements to collect [child] from school on these dates:

Thursday 25th November 2010
Thursday 16th December 2010

I can appreciate that Thursday may be less convienient for you due to work comitments. However, as a parent, school hours are something we both need to accomodate and so I hope you are able to accept this additional contact.

If you are able to establish this Thursday contact perhaps we could then move forward to a weekly midweek contact every Thursday after school once the new term starts in January 2011.

If Thursday is not convienient for you please advise if Wednesday is more suitable instead.

Regarding overnight contact I would suggest that the Christmas holidays would be a good time for this to happen should we all be happy with how contact is progessing prior to this.

As Thursday 23rd falls during school holidays we could continue the Thursday contact to include Thursday 23rd to be from 9am to 6pm. If this is convienient to you then we could potentially include an overnight on this contact visit should the previous contact go ahead as planned and [child] is happy with everything.

Assuming everything progress well we can then look at including overnights on the regular Saturday contact weekends from January 2011 onwards.

I also hope this will give you enough time to prepare a room for [child] in anticipation of overnights starting, should you require it.

Please let me have your response to this Saturday and Thursday contact proposal.

On a separate issue, I feel I must mention the introduction of your new partner to [child]. He appears confused about this situation and is not entirely sure who she is.
I still feel, as per our previous discussions, that it is essential for you rebuild your relationship with [child] before introducing any new situation to him.
I would therefore ask you to bear this in mind while we re-establishing your contact and build on [child's] relationship with you. Perhaps we could agree that you delay introducing your new partner for a few more weeks and then make it clear to [child] who she is while reassuring him of his relationship with you.

I appreciate this is a matter that you must decide upon yourself, but hope you can see things from [child's] point of view. Right now [he/she] needs consistency and reliablity in order to feel secure in [his/her] relationship with you and for contact to be built upon with the aim of moving to overnights.

You have also mentioned maintenance money in your letter. As this is an entirely separate issue I will be addressing that by separate cover.

I look forward to hearing from you confirming your agreement to the proposed Saturday and Thursday contact as detailed above.

Obviously I meant starting from 3pm for Thursday's, not 3am!

Wow gillybean2, thank you! Do you mind if I copy and paste that whole letter?!

Well as long as you fix the couple of typos first! And if it's helpful to you then please use whatever you like from it :)

Thank you... it's so difficult to get it right when your so emotionally involved!

Also, I didn't answer your questions! DS is nearly 5. He wants contact (although I'm not sure if that's because each time he sees him he gets a present ). However, when returning from contact his behaviour is diabolical for at least a day (maybe longer) after. I don't know if this is normal? Also, although he has been going to the toliet for a few years and never has accidents anymore, whilst with his Dad he does.

Also he's asked to have him for a full day on boxing day - do I have to oblige?

Bumping for the xmas question.

You don't have to oblige, but given that you are having xmas eve, xmas day and likely NY eve and day it might be nice for your ds to see his dad.

Remember that in years to come you will likely alternate whatever arrangement you come up with on alternate years. If you set a precident now of two whole days with you then you may end up not having xmas day or boxing day in the future.

I would let him have Boxing Day, you can state in your letter that providing he sticks to whatever arrangements you agree upon between now and Boxing Day (without good reason such as severe sickness etc) you will be willing to give him Boxing Day. But you need to see he is reliable so ds is not disappointed at Christmas.
Would be nice for ds and he gets TWO Christmases, yippee! (Thats the way I play it anyway so they then like the idea and don't start asking if Daddy can come over on Christmas Day and spoil the atmosphere)

Lurpak the behaviour thing is normal, my dsd aged 9 is like this. My dcs aren't tho, I think it depends on the child and what the nrp is feeding into their heads. DSDs mother is very insecure and says things like 'you only have one mother'

I suppose I begrudge it because I feel like he just wants to be there for the 'nice' days. For example is was crucial that he saw him a couple of weekends ago because his family were down and had organised a big day out. Then he doesn't stick to the 'regular' contact.

Also, it's likely that he will be with his family on Boxing Day, who DS has seen once this year (mentioned above) and I don't like the thought of him spending the day with a bunch of 'strangers' when he could be at home with his brother, and seeing family he does have a relationship with.