child maintenance-lack of-prat of an H

[SpiritualKnot]

Just wanting to vent!

My H, who I'm divorcing for his adultry, has decided he is giving me £0 child maintenance after 19 years of marriage. He says I can afford it all on my own and unfortunately as I've paid everything on my own for our marriage, I can't disprove it, even though I'm buying him out by increasing the mortgage, which will cost an extra £150 a month. He just refuses to believe me, even though it's all written down in black and white.

Showed him today that the £250 he was meant to give me actually came off what I would have spent on the kids and he just said "Tough". Now I'm giving my son £100 a month for college instead of the £325 I was going to give him and spending £25 a month less on my daughter.

Would rather have nothing as he'd be like yours and expect me to account for it, but my kids will suffer because of it. Can't stop paying for anything else as it's all essential stuff, mortgage, bills etc. He says he will put £100 a month in a savings account for my dd, when she's 18 (she's now 11). Hard for me to believe as he hasn't saved any money in the past, whilst I have made regular savings for both dc.

I know I could go to CSA, but not whilst I live in the same area as him as he'd freak out.

I'm very worried that the judge will say that I should be giving him more as he may presume that H will be paying me child maintenance?

Some men are total prats.

"Would rather have nothing as he'd be like yours"

Whoops! Error. Sorry I was originally posting this in another thread and then realised I was hijacking it, so started a new one instead.

whatever the relative incomes he will be expected to pay maintenance for his children. csa would be 20% of his net income (assuming two children with you 100% of the time). Whether you can afford to bring them up or not is not relevant: the money represents his responsibility to his children.

If he won't play fair why should you pussy foot around over this? Sounds like it's unplesant enough, what would him 'freaking out' make worse? It's your and your children's long term financial health at stake here and frankly the cards are in your hands.

The judge won't assume anything. It sounds like you are releasing equity from the house to pay him off. Talk to your solicitor about a financial deal based on him paying no maintenance at all - a clean break. He would get less equity now but not have to pay maintenance.

Hi oldenough.

That's what I'm planning and if it goes through I'll be happy with that. Just that someone told me the judge had no interest in the management of child maintenance, just in how the assets are divided?

If it's all in a financial agreement as a clean break then, the judge might be ok with that and it might work out.

Would hate for him to be given more equity and be asked to pay maintenance as a result. He'd be stopping it as soon as I spent money on anything he thought wasn't appropriate.(ie if I bought something for the house or for me.)

If he freaks out, he does it just with me, I get upset and this has a knock on effect with the kids, even though I try not to show it.

what would "he'd freak out" actually consist of?
TWAT (him not you)

Shouting and hissing things like:

"Look at how much you earn, you're just greedy, you're greedy"
"Serves you right for taking out a loan for a conservatory"
"You should have given me that money you used on that conservatory"
"You're going to sell this house as soon as the divorce is through anyway"
"You're take take take, just like in the marriage"

Has a really loud voice and just sounds so scary. He used to tell me to do things and then forget and so blames for wiping things off the computer, buying the wrong things etc and so I get all that shouted at me as well.

I think he is very unbalanced and unhinged at the moment and I have to be careful as I'm not dealing wih someone rational, so I can't be rational with him. He won't have it.

(By the way, it never bothered him when we were married that I earned more than him and I'm not selling the house after the divorce.)

and do you have to involve yourself in this? I mean can you get CSA involved and just totally distance yourself from any contact with him?
Hope you are ok.

How to distance myself? Quite hard as he pops round to see dd. I work full time, he works shifts so can come round to house to be with her so she's not alone for ages before I get home. Needs to work like that as other days I have to leave work early for her, so work later other days to make up for it.

Dd doesn't like going to his flat. She likes to come home after school and gets on with her homework.

Initially when we split, I'd go upstairs when he was there and keep out of his way, but we're trying to be amicable about it. Basically, as long as I don't mention money we are amicable, he won't see a solicitor as he says he can't afford it etc. I'm trying to be fair about everything, he's practically living with OW and I'm sure they'll get a place together.

I just have to be amicable until the divorce and financial settlement is sorted. Once I know it's all done and dusted I'll be so relieved.

you might be trying to be fair - but he isn't. He is legally (and morally) obliged to pay child support for his children.
Must be hard having him coming into your home to care for dd, I appreciate that it is a childcare need, but still hard for you.

CSA payment is calculated based on the lifestyle the children could of expected had you styed together. What you both actually earn is 'irrelevant', it's a percentage of the NRP.

He may scare and intimidate you, but this money isn't for you, it's for the dc. He has no right to know what you spend it on and you should be fighting for their rights to this money.

If he plans on putting some money aside for savings then fine, but that should be in addition to the money he pays (which you are equally capable of putting into savings for dd if your lifestle allows it).

You are separated now and he needs to be out of your house for your own sanity. If this was amicable you wouldn't feel threatened or intimidated and you wouldn't 'need' him to have dd for you.

Why can't your dd go to his flat on the days he looks after her after school? Or could she not stay at the school library and do homework there if you have to work later? Could she not stay over at his place one night in the week, to do her homework, spend time with dad? If his flat isn't appropriate for the dc to visit then he needs to be sorting that out. And maybe his flat will be more 'appealing' when the dc visit him there.

You have to separate him out of your life now, and more importantly you have to contact the CSA to get the maintenance paid, or agree in court to a clean break. Either way you have to stand up to him and get on with it I'm afraid.

Yes, I'm starting to see that it's not so amicable! Thank you for your replies.

He feels that if he has a payoff and then pays child maintenance he is paying me it back. He resents this so much and I know it's pathetic.

Currently the plan is that he gets 20K with no maintenance. I would consider 30K with maintenance but exactly the same thing would happen, ie he would go on and on about how he's paying me back.

With the £20K he says if he pays maintenance at £250 a month for 7 years, he'll be paying me back £21K. IfI give him £30K with maintenance. he'll just bang on about he's only getting £9K (ie 30K minus 21K).

He initially agreed to pay maintenance with the 20K payoff and then went round telling everybody about he was walking away with nothing, she had the house he had nothing, he was a victim etc etc.

There's a strong risk that he would stop the payments anyway.I do not want to go through CSA. If I get really stuck I will go back to where my friends, my parents and other family are, 200 miles away. Got a lot of support there and it's an option.Parents are elderly and I would probably have done that anway in a few years time, whether married or not.

Both my solicitor and I are saying he should see a solicitor but he just refuses. I'm speaking to my solicitor today.

Is he not expecting a payrise ever from now until the dc are grown and left home? Basing the 'difference' on what he earns now takes no account of future earnings, inflation etc.

Just ignore his moanings. Or if you can't simply say 'I can't believe you begrudge your children the money they are entitled too from you'.

If he's earning via PAYE the CSA can get the money deducted directly from his salary if he doesn't pay. But tbh it may be simpler all round to get it agreed in court and then you don't have to worry about it.

Be prepared for him to say that he'd have the children more (overnight) and therefore pay you less maintenance as a result. And then be prepared for him not to do it.

Yes, he already said he would have dd overnight but the last time was in May! But she doesn't like his flat anyway as it's not home..her words.

I would hate him to move in with OW and then try and make dd stay there after the divorce, along with her 3 year old son that H hasn't told our dd about yet. He would, like you say, probably say that to reduce maintenance and then not do it anyway.

Spoke to the solicitor today, she's going to ask her senior supervisor what to do about this savings plan he has. It won't count as maintenance and I don't think he'll do it.

Think I'm going to go for the clean break, pay off, no maintenance. My sister had 2 dds (both now at uni) and her ex never paid her a penny from the ages of 4years and 2 years, gave up his job etc so he didn't have to pay. Doesn't seem uncommon, but is pretty pathetic.

Ds will get less from me for uni, but has been very resourceful and has just confirmed that he has got a scholarship for £1500 and is applying for another £1000 from his school, so should be ok for the first year anyway.If he keeps his grades up this will be repeated in further years. He's a wonderful son.

Just found out a few minutes ago he's moved in with the OW.

Makes my case easier now, looks like she's putting a roof over his head now instead of me. I can see things repeating themselves, she'll be on the receiving end of his tight ways now instead of me.

How nice for them both. Looks like the best woman won....the other got the booby prize....him!

I'll go for the clean break and then when the dust settles...maybe I'll contact the CSA, will see how it goes.

the two figures are not connected, what you pay as a settlement is NOTHING to do with his child maintenance payments and how he makes them, and what income he uses to make them.

you may well give him 20k or 30k, and he may well pay 21k until children are 18 - but putting the two figures together to say he is 'paying you back' is just nonsense. It's manipulative and irrational. Where he gets the money from to pay child maintenance is nothing to do with the figure of your settlement.

just do what you think is best, and don't fall for the whole 'let's be amicable', because IME, that means he'll be amicable until you bring something up he doesn't want to talk about or do, at which point he will freak out.

Emotions are running high obviously.
However I think if your positions were reversed
i.e. you were the lower earner and didn't have the children but were still expected to help out you might feel very hard done by having to pay your husbands "demands"- and could expect lots of support on MN.

Who came up with the figure of £250? To be honest I think your son is old enough to ask his dad for money when he needs it if he is at college. I don't think £25 a month less will make your daughter actually "suffer".You need to accept some change in circumstance because you are divorcing.

I think you have worked hard for your money and lifestyle so don't wreck it by being a bitch. Your children are the most important thing in this. They will appreciate two amicable parents more than a bit more spending money.

Lets see. He takes home £1800 a month. CSA rates this at £269 a month for 1 child, £399 for 2 children. (CSA pays until the September of the school leaving year, so should have paid this much until then.)£250 is not unreasonable.

He's moved in with another person in same job and money. So they've got £3600 for the two of them and a child, she does get child maintenance for that child from it's father. She's probably already paying the mortgage and bills on her own place and he will continue to have £450 a week in his pocket. He will definitely be buying a new car when he gets the £20K..I can guarantee it!

£20K extra on the mortgage to give him, costs me an extra £150 a month, as I need to stay on current interest rate or buy myself out of current mortgage at £50000.

Law states he has to pay child maintenance. And he knows the law as that's his job. If things were reversed I would certainly pay him child maintenance as I know what it costs to bring up kids.

I'm not asking him for child maintenance, not because the kids don't need it, but because I can't bear his taunts about it. I am certainly not a bitch. I'd rather be less well off and be sane. Just have a very hard time understanding why a father who loved his kids should not want to contribute to their upbringing?

(Sorry, not £50,000 to buy out of mortgage, I meant £5,000)

As Chattymitchy pointed out, being amicable is not really working. He's only amicable as long as I'm passive and let him have it his way.

I would not encourage my son to ask him for money for college, if he started being as horrible to ds as he is to me about it all, that would be the end of their relationship. Though friends have also said that ds should be asking him, so it's a fair comment.

Dd won't suffer for £25 a month less, but she's only 11 and I'm pretty sure her needs will increase as she gets older.

However, despite all that, it'll be ok. I feel a fool for being intimidated by him, but then it was like that during the last few years of our marriage anyway. The kids seem much happier without him around...I can hear them laughing together downstairs as I type this!

What the OW earns is irelevant. However if your ex has moved in with her then the CSA calculation takes into account the other children (her dc) he now supports.

secureonline.dwp.gov.uk/csa/v2/en/calculate-maintenance.asp

I don't get it. Whats with the intimidation thing? You have the money, the children and the house. He was the one who wanted to leave but still comes back to do childcare and he intimidates you?
Can I say from the quotes you gave us that his shouting all sounds quite sad and factual rather than scary and mean.

I hope I don't sound like I'm having a go because breaking up is horrible. Just perhaps don't lose your cool too much because five years down the line with a new happy life you'll feel a complete prat for all the ranting now.

Married 19 years and then he leaves me for a woman 20 years younger than me. Supported him through his training and beyond. He's 10 years younger than me and will be earning far more than I do in another 5 years time. I haven't got all the money, I am a very careful budgeter. If anything major needs doing I'm in trouble.

He is in a very good job and used to say that he would never have managed to achieve all he has without me to give him the confidence and motivation to do it all. It saddens me that it didn't work out.

Believe you me, he is scary. I'm the one going through this and I know. It upsets me that his hatred for me is greater than his love for his children and that he loves his new family more than this one. Childcare comprises him arguing with me about whether my dd can't stay on her own and then reluctantly coming round.

I hope to get the house, but I don't know if that'll be the case yet, but I'm giving him a lump sum by increasing the mortgage and he's already moved in with his OW who owns her own house anyway.

His rantings may sound factual but when he left he said he was going to be coming back, didn't mention the OW, said he needed some space. I decided to make the house nice in his absence, we had an old conservatory which couldn't be used as doors were broken and lots of leaks, so had it replaced. This has resulted in his shouting about that at me.

That was my first loan ever, he has had constant loans for very expensive cars and other vehicles throughout our marriage, whilst I've had he same car for over 10 years and which was bought second hand in the first place.

I have never been greedy, I have supported him and sought advancement in my job to do so. I would much rather have worked part time and had an easy life. I was not "take take take" that was him.

I'm up and down and all over the place, haven't been able to work properly since he left, left work today 2 hours early coz I was in bits. I'm very worried about the whole job thing as finding it very difficult.My job desription is based on my completing a PhD, meant to be finished at the end of this year and I've had to postpone it a year coz of the break up and I really don't think I will be able to complete it if I don't pull myself together.

I walkaround feeling a complete prat already, I don't have to wait until 5 years time. A lot of the time I cope well and I know that the divorce is the right thing. He's not a pleasant person, maybe I'm not either. I try and keep cool about the whole thing, but I never wanted all these changes to happen and I never know what he's going to spring on me next.

He spent 5 months saying he was happy with the pay off and giving maintenance, I paid the solicitors fees and got it all drawn up with his agreement and then he changes his mind, so I don't know if he's going to do that again with this new arrangement ie pay off with no maintenance, it's extremely unsettling and means I can't plan anything for the future.

hi there, I'm sorry to hear what you're going through all this, divorces tend to be messy. I actually know several people in unhappy marriages trying to avoid dealing with this procedure. Not worth it IMO.

Now, while I understand you're hurt that he's with someone much younger than you, and that in five-years' time he might be in a better earning position than you because he's younger etc.... well... try to leave all this out of the financial situation atm. If you're so hurt you feel you can't cope just with chatting to friends etc. get some help, you have a life to enjoy and the sooner you feel well the better.

Concerning CSA, you say his income is 1800, is this NET income though? If your son is doing A levels then XH is only obliged to pay for him until he's 19 or finishes his A levels, whichever comes first. CSA will also make the calculations after taking 15% out of his NET income due the child living with him. Whether than child is receiving support or not is irrelevant to them. He might also try to claim variations... not that he'll definitely get somewhere, just warning you of the wearing process.

All the best with it all, let us know how it goes.

Yes, it's net income. He earns £32,000 gross a year.

Ds is 18, would not get anything for him now anyway as he was only entitled to child maintaince until start September. Too late now.

Just found out OW isn't 29, she's 24..and so it goes on.

Will be going for clean break, £20K pay off and no maintenance.. Sick to death of all this divorce stuff. Solicitor says I shouldn't let him not pay child maintenance, but can't do this anymore.

Sorry, there's also dd, who's 11 and is with me.