How many nights can a partner stay over if you are on benefits? I'm worried my friend is going to get into trouble.

[LucyLouLou]

I'm not asking for me, I don't have a partner and I'm not on benefits (pregnant, so things might change a bit when I've had my DD, but that's neither here nor there lol).

Let me preface this by saying that I have absolutely no intention of reporting my friend for benefit fraud here, so this is not a fishing expedition for that purpose. However, I am a little bit worried that she is accidentally committing fraud because she is not aware (as such) of the rules surrounding her partner staying in the house.

She has a baby DS with her DP. They have been sort of on and off a bit since during the pregnancy (DS is now 10m old) and he has never officially lived with her and DS AFAIK. Lately though, DP has been staying with my friend most nights of the week. None of his mail is registered at the address and if you looked him up on the electoral register (if he's on it) you would find him living at his mum's house. To an outside observer though, you would think he was living with my friend.

The problem is, she does not work (does intend to get a job though, two days a week so she can still claim benefits) so she claims housing benefit, council tax benefit and the like, and does this as a single person. I haven't said as much to her, but I think she's in danger of getting caught out with her DP being there as much as he is. She thinks that because he is still registered as living at his parent's house, she isn't breaking the rules. I think she's wrong, but I don't know enough about the laws to tell her this definitively. I think I heard somewhere that she was allowed to have him stay over 3 nights a week, but I'm not sure how current or correct this might be.

I'm worried if she is in the wrong and was to get caught, she would have no way of defending herself. He is the father of the child, his name is on the birth certificate, and while I don't know what tactics investigators use to find out whether people are living the way they say they are, I'm pretty sure him leaving for work daily from her house would incriminate her.

Please someone tell me the rules. Like I said, I don't want to report her, but I do want to be able to tell her she's creating trouble for herself. I really get the impression she doesn't know she's making a mistake.

Thanks for any help and sorry for how long this is :)!

LucyLouLou if she lives anywhere like I live someone will dob her in.
Lots of people pay tax and really struggle to get by. And they resent seeing people who are 'bending' the rules, claiming what they shouldn't.

I was shocked when I heard that a lady I work with was dobbed in by her neighbours saying they'd seen her going out to work more hours than she should of. Nothing came of it because she hadn't, but she was investigated all the same. I was thinking people should mind their own business. But on some level it is all our business.

I also know someone who is doing a very similar thing to your friend. She has her house, which is paid for by HB, CTB and she gets IS. But she spends the majority of time at her partners house. He is the father of her younger two dc. She justifies it to herself saying that of course their dad wants to see them and it's closer for their school etc. I have told her to be very careful who she tells and what she says and that really she should move in with him officially. I know her reasons for not doing this (won't explain why here), but in reality she is living with him in all but name. I think she'd have a really hard time explaining the situation if she ever did get investigated.

It's so hard to know what to do. On one hand it isn't my business. On the other I feel morally obliged to tell her she is in the wrong here and could get herself in a serious mess. I don't want to see her and her dc end up in trouble over it, but in reality she could be dobbed in at any time by anyone. Especially knowing what people are like around here!

thing is thou DP comes here most nights a week (prob 5) I'd say but then again like end of the month he'll not be about for 4 weeks. At the minute I use his car as mine is off the road and I need to save to get a new one. some stuff of his is here (clotehs and such) but he pays a morgage and council tax else where. I can't afford to loose benfits as I can't we're afford to have him move in loose everything without him contributing, he can't contribute all the time he's paying for his DS's school/other household bills etc.

we're left with the only time we see each other is when he comes over here and the odd occassion I get to go to his on a weekend XH is with his dad. is he classed as living with me now - as if it's all about him coming over us cooking together/doing the chores etc (ie washing up) then we'd never see each other - at what point do they draw the line??

thesouthsbelle if he is staying there 5 nights a week you are living together and stealing, i don't care what justification you have for your behavior, morally you are not a single parent, single parents do not have access to their boyfriends cars, the pay for tax and insure their own if they can afford one
Many step parents pay for two households and DS's school ? I thought schools were free for 97% of children.
This is what starts the benefit bashing threads off.

I'd say that if he isn't contributing financially and your are not actually living together then you are entitled to claim as a single mum. He is running his own home and pays his own mortgage/council tax.

To the OP, even if your friend did get caught doing something wrong. I am no expert but I doubt she would be asked to pay back £000's, how could they prove when it started. They would reassess her benefits based on the fact they were now a couple, living together, if in fact they are.

I remember seeing a program on this a while back. As you can imagine, there's no single line. What they do is look at the whole picture.

So number of nights is one factor. Another is do you have kids together? Length of relationship?

And what about his own arrangements? For example, does your BF have his own home? Does he pay rent, mortgage and council tax there? Where does he keep his clothes, food etc.

In fact on one of the examples, they investigated a couple and cleared them because although he stayed over 4/5 nights a week, because he could show he paid rent and council tax at another place, they couldn't prove he "lived" together.

Personally I hope people like your friend get caught. People like them who "bend" the rules sponge off genuine taxpayers and make it harder for genuine people to get what they deserve.

mam - ref my car I am not paying for it at all I am saving for my own one. the whole reason I am using his one is as he doesn't need to use his one so has offered it - where is the difference between it being his or my parents one (which they need btw and is why I don't have his) fwiw I need the car to get to work as it's not on any bus routes other wise i'd bus it.

if he was to come over to my house cook tea etc and us play scrabble and him leave that's ok as he's not living there- even thou he's not living there now?

in the case of it being I am 'stealing' then things will stop and be brought into line as I do not want to be seen or accused of such. However also to that end am I not meant to ahve any friends to my house etc for tea either? (further more I do actually work, and also pay tax/NI - the top ups I recieve are minimal but I can't be without them)

oh and yes he does pay for the school as it's private & the child has SN therefore it will be paid for. you question that!

Lucyloulou, I was under the impression that it doesn't matter if your friend's partner is not giving her anything towards her bills, that's between the two of them. The point is that although he is earning money, he is benefiting from living in a free house which has been provided for a single mum with no income.

Staying most nights of the week will be counted as living together so his income has to be taken into account.

Otherwise I could claim my husband doesn't give me any of his money and as I don't earn any, my house and living expenses should be covered by benefits?

As I say, i'm not 100% certain but that's what I understood.

But Busymumm, would you husband have a house elsewhere where he is paying utility bills, council tax & mortgage? Would the house be furnished, eg a bed where he sleeps, TV in lounge etc. etc.?

Does he have space for clothes at "yours"? Is his name on any bills at "yours"?

Plus the fact you are married, have kids together and not legally separated/divorcing is a big red flag.

It's not about absolutes but building an overall picture.

Southbelle's situation is in the grey area.

Southsbelle The difference between your boyfriends car and your parents is that they have a moral obligation to help you but not a legal one of course, where as your boyfriend is helping you out because he's shagging you basically. So whilst he may not actually be giving you cash he is giving you benefits in kind that you would not have if you were as you claim to be a single parent.
If you get caught speeding in his car, there's then a paper trail, I also assume you are on his insurance, again paper trail connecting you financially to him, all of this is checkable.
You don't have to justify yourself on here but just be ready to pay everything back when you get a knock on the door, if you're struggling now it'll be worse when they demand it back won't it ?
Married couples who aren't claiming to be single parents spend weeks apart, women with husbands in the army away for 6 months at a time are counted as a couple, so why shouldn't you be

I thought army personell had to be married to get living quarters so therefore a woman at home whilst her forces husband is away in the army would be financially dependent on him and therefore not a single parent as Southbelle is so not comparable at all.

Mama, I think you are taking a lot of this out of context, some single mums have boyfriends, they are allowed. It could be that said boyfriend ends up living in the household and they stop claiming benefits but certainly in the early days of a relationship that doesn't happen just because he comes round for dinner and ends up staying a night or two, or he drives your car and vice versa.

Your friend is comitting fraud.

Even if it is fraud, lets face it he's "living with his parents" so is really not in a position to provide her with very much anyway.He's probably on crap money so the money the state "save" will be a pittance.

I have a boyfriend who is on/off but does do lovely holidays, meals out and nice presents.We don't actually like each other enough to get married or live together so he has his own house and we pay all our own bills etc.Could he support me? Of course.,but he is a boyfriend and that is a very different relationship to living together whether married or not.Should the State should be forcing people into live in relationships just to make admin easier/keep costs down.

No the state shouldn't be forcing relationships but equally should the state be supporting people indefinitely either ? At some point you have to decide if you're in it together or not, if you are financially independent then it's a non issue.

I think you'll find that most people aren't supported by the state "indefinitely".

And if there are children from a previous relationship involved then moving in together "just" so that the DWP doesn't get tetchy is a big risk.

It's a difficult balancing act having a Boyfriend and being a single parent

So Mama how long should the State give people to decide if they are in it together or not.
Financially independent is difficult to quantify...as I said he pays for all the nice stuff, that's my lifestyle so does that count or not?

Can I say too I think single parents should get a dating grant... meet a new bloke and you can get a bit extra for a new top, pay for a drink and a taxi home. It's in their interest to get us paired up.
After 3 months of the same guy you don't get the grant (see if he's serious). After 18 months you get a months run on of benefits if he proposes.Maybe a discount on council run marriage venues.

"as I said he pays for all the nice stuff, that's my lifestyle so does that count or not?"

Hmm I don't know, it's almost bordering on kept woman/prostitution so difficult to answer.
The law says could you manage your current financial position without him, so in the case of the other lady she needs his car to get to work therefore she is dependent on him, therefore they are a couple and she is stealing.
Could you manage without the "nice stuff" ?

Well actually when I worked full time I needed a car too. Mine needed £500 of work so I used his for 6 months because I couldn't afford the repairs on my wage.
I eventually gave up work 3 months ago because it wasn't viable...no car (MOT up as well as repairs) vs borrow one indefinately (sorry spelling).So essentially the state is now worse off because I claim IS and don't use his car even though now I am not "stealing"

Not having a go Mama it's just that there is so much grey I don't think it's worth the paperwork half the time. Especially when the government leaks money in house in so so many ways..

It's a tough one isn't it, have decided I'm just jealous because we're on our arses and the computer says no.
I sit trying to do the maths over and over to work out whether or not we should bother trying to work our way out of our current situations, redundancy etc or give up and chill out for a couple of years but at what price (and I don't mean to the state).

I'm also in a position where my boyfriend lives separately. He does stay over sometimes but we're certainly not living as man and wife and I would object to anyone trying to pressure us into doing so. It's not in the best interests of my children or us to rush into anything like that. He does pay for meals out, takeouts, gifts and days out, but those are extras and we can live without them. But why should I turn them down if he wants to treat us?

I'm very careful about who I tell about my financial situation, in fact with the mums at school I've denied being on benefits because I don't want tongues wagging and risk being reported. My partner does keep some toiletries and clothes here but then so does my sister, who comes over to babysit and stay the night every few weeks. I'll make sure I keep stuff like that tucked away in future if there's a risk that people will interpret it wrongly.

It's hard enough as a single parent to get out and meet people, let alone find someone who is willing to cope with the extra burden and inconvenience of someone else's children. It doesn't help at all if the men think they'll have to start paying for all the living costs of a single mum and her children as well.

Back to the op- my sister was investigated for benefit fraud (false accusation) and they told her that she wasn't allowed to have a partner stay over at all, ever, while on income support as a single parent.

She asked about friends- and they said no to that too.

That is exactly what I was told Supercherry.

When i went to the job centre to be interviewed(bitch spreading lies about me) the interviewer said it doesn't matter how many night's a partner stay's over you still have to inform them

SuperCherry. Ask them to put that in writing.....bet they don't.

I'm a bit at some of the scenarios and justifications here.

There are plenty of single parents who work very hard to ensure they aren't on benefits and probably see their dcs less as a result. The thought that I am paying taxes to support people who are fraudently claiming benefit makes me see . I have absolutely no problem with my tax money being used to support those genuinely in need but from what I have read on this thread there are quite a few who seem to be taking the p*ss.