Council vs Private Rent Unfair

[UnfairSociety]

Hello

I have a few friends I met in London living in a council/housing association in zone 1/2 and paying lower than the market rate. They had the apartment many years ago but now earning way above average workers' salaries, yet the rent doesn't increase at a similar rate to the private sector.

For example, there is one bedroom apartment that only pays £600 a month. Another 2-bed rooms apartment only pays roughly £700 a month. Do taxpayers have to subsidise the remaining cost of their rent? One of the couples earns a combined salary of £90k per annum and pays this much rent? Note quality of the apartments is pretty good. I hear you they would put the home as a single tenant to earn extra income from their partner and also pay council tax at a 25% discount.

I feel sorry for those in the private sector living in s*tty quality homes and dealing with rogue landlords. Housing crises are a mess in London, and those rich council tenants should pay in line with the private sector or move elsewhere to allow those in need to live there.

Also, they get a massive discount if they buy their council house.

Why don't the people who disagree with OP post some proper explanations, rather than patronising little digs at anyone questioning them?

And to the person who said our council tax should cover everything - why are libraries closing if councils are awash with cash?

If you're so clever, tell me what's wrong with my analogy.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear. So I will try again for you. It's not irrelevant that circumstances change people who "earn well" may split from their partner and then they would then only have one income to live on. The trouble with mortgages is scraping the deposit together. I don't see how raising SH in line with private rents makes sense. How would that solve the root issue? 🤔

Yes let's just add and extra £300/£400 on top of my rent (which the gov would end up paying in housing benefit most likely).

@Sarahcoggles If your comment - And to the person who said our council tax should cover everything - why are libraries closing if councils are awash with cash - was aimed at me, i didn't say that. I was responding to your quote - "The cheaper the council house rent, the less money councils will have for other public services.

Right - so council house rents do NOT pay for public services. They pay for maintenance, repairs and upkeep of said housing stock. That's not public services. Money from council tax pays for public services like libraries. Some libraries are under used and do not justify wages, electricity, etc. That's part of the reason some are being closed down.

Now your little side hustle at selling things for £2 instead of £20. A buyer paying £2 is NOT subsidising your new carpet at all. Subsidise means to pay part of the cost of producing something to keep the price low. You've set the £2 rate. That's the full price charged. You're sacrificing yourself by setting a low rate as it takes you longer to purchase your carpet. It's nothing to do with the seller.

"Right - so council house rents do NOT pay for public services. They pay for maintenance, repairs and upkeep of said housing stock. That's not public services. Money from council tax pays for public services like libraries."

Isn't that her point? If councils charged market rents then the profit could be used for public services instead of people having to pay for them through taxes. Given that the tax payer pays for SH construction that seems fair. profits could also just be given as a rebate to tax payers.

I've only skimmed the convo so apologies if I've missed something.

Most social housing is run by housing associations, not the council since about the late 90's. Their income doesn't impact council budgets.

@Lilgamesh2 If Council / Housing Associations charged market rents, how do you think lower paid workers / disabled / vulnerable could pay those rents? Increase uptake of housing benefit - right hand taking from left hand?

Those houses have paid for themselves time and time over. How on earth do you think the vulnerable / disabled / lower income families would afford them. Primarily, this is the sector they're aimed at.

Well I would assume that at least some of them would leave London and I would think that's a reasonable assumption because we see this all the time in the private rental market. When people lose their jobs or want to start a family they often move out of the city because it's not affordable. Happens all around the world.

Then, if large numbers of people who were previously on sub-market rents leave the city the demand for housing will decline which would in turn reduce the burden on our infrastructure, including but not limited to housing, and reduce rents across the whole city - thus making them more affordable in private market too. Potentially the inflows of people to other parts of the country would boost local economies too depending on the skills they bring with them.

What do you think would happen?

So effectively forced out of London - in other words gentrification. Lovely! Children should not be forced to move schools, leave friends. Adults should not be forced to find employment elsewhere just so HAs can charge market rents. That's obscene. It's happening all round London and really isn't right.

When you ask what do I think would happen? I'm quite happy with the status quo, thanks. I don't have a council house or housing association property, but I'm not jealous of anyone who does and neither am I jealous of their rent - which seems to be the purpose of the title of the original thread. I hate to see the low paid, vulnerable, disabled, etc picked on - and moved elsewhere like pawns in a chess game, so someone else can profit.

@happyinherts absolutely agree. Its disgusting of OP and others are dim to follow that lead. A lot of people (students) can't afford to live in the likes of Oxford despite it being their home town. I used to work with a nurse who decided to stay in the North. People leaving their home towns for someone else's home town is creating an even bigger issue.

Rent are subsidised as council borrow millions for upkeep.

Rent are subsidised as council borrow millions for upkeep.

Why do people keep making such idiot statements!

kittenkerfuffle

Most social housing is run by housing associations, not the council since about the late 90's

That's not actually true.

Leeds City Council have over 55,000 Council homes run and maintained by the council and the HA has around 5,000. Maybe in smaller cities your statement is true.

Ours was privatised out 20 years ago. It's a not for profit company. They buy and build new properties as the pot grows. They're doing much better than the council ever did

What the actual eff is this now?

Seriously. Where on earth do some people get their ideas?

@CrossStichQueen I live near two major UK cities. All Housing Associations. Council properties are in the minority.

So if we take out all of the "LA/SH rents are subsidised" opinions and thoughts there a few things you can factor in to these properties being charged at less then market rates.

1. These are empty shells when a new tenant moves in. No carpet, no white goods, basic cheap bulk bought (chipboard) kitchen and bathroom suites. You as the tenant are soley responsible for all of this. If the property had damp damage previously, for example, the LA/SA would fix it but any staining or cosmetic damage is on you as the new tenant. Your tenancy agreement states you agree to take the property as is.
2. You are also, as the tenant, soley responsible for all non serious repairs. So holes in walls/ceilings, broken internal doors/fixtures, minor leaks, window sealings repair, damaged kitchen units, minor cases of damp etc. Including outdoor repairs. Broken fences, putting up fences originally. Also pest services are at the cost of the tenant regardless of fault.
3. You are subject to anti-social behaviour clauses within your tenancy agreement that can result in fines/eviction orders.

You can look up on LA/HA websites just what their responsibility to the upkeep property as a whole is. www.middevon.gov.uk/media/353843/tenant-mddc-responsibilities.pdf Here is ours.

This does vary, though.

I rent from the council and all the repairs you mention are covered, unless maliciously caused by the tenant, in which case the council will still carry them out but you may be recharged. Also pest control is covered, and flats are refurbed before every new tenant moves in - repainted, new kitchen/bathroom if required, etc. They'd certainly not let a flat out with staining from a previous leak in evidence. Our kitchen and bathroom was replaced not long ago and both are good quality - tenants got to choose the colour schemes for kitchen units, walls and flooring, and we were able to help design our new kitchens. For about £20 a week more flats can be let fully furnished with white goods, sofa, carpets, beds, wardrobes, even pots and pans for the kitchen. These are then replaced when they wear out, or after a set time - for example a cooker is replaced after five years automatically, sooner if it breaks irreparably. If your rented appliance breaks down, an engineer will come out to fix it within 48 hours.

The HA that DH works for however is far more inline with your tenancy agreement. They don't offer furniture packages and their rents are slightly higher.

We know we're fortunate to have such good LLs. If our boiler goes off, it's regarded as an emergency ticket and someone is out to repair it within an hour. Our homes are properly insulated so the flats are warm and less expensive to heat. We're happy here and have no plans to move.

If our LA can do it, bearing in mind I'm in one of the most deprived areas of the UK, there's absolutely no reason why more can't.

SO... For those who still believe social housing is subsidised or that private renters are getting such a bad deal they ought to be jealous...

This is a ONE bedroomed flat - it's social housing. Rent is £1140 per month www.myclarionhousing.com/find-a-home/rent-a-home/available-homes-property-search/2020/09/16/flat-16-84-kings-avenue

@VampiresWife I also rent from the council and am speaking from my own experiences with the linked LA. So I agree that can massively differ between LAs. Ours do not offer the furninishing/white goods option yours does unfortunately. The flooring in our downstairs hall is currently a higgledy piggledy if different colour same brand laminate that my husband got from work (they were throwing it away) about 4 years ago. Before that we had bare concrete (with a couple cheap door mats) for 18 months.

Although I do know the local HA will put up things like fencing if you request it and up your weekly rent to regain the costs.

We know we are very fortunate to have a LA house and also have no plans to move.

@ForTheLoveOfSleep we get no white goods either fully unfurnished and only rooms that have flooring are bathroom and kitchen , non slip vynl
Rest if rooms we have to carpet , decorate
Fencing and garden work we have to pay for , although some housing associations do fencings ours only does under specific circumstances, our fences need replacing and its up to ask to ask permission and then get them done and paid for

@VampiresWife your HA sounds great and very much not the norm of what is offered

@CrossStichQueen in some places it is our HA has all properties no council ones at all , now covers several areas
London still has a mix of bith but it does difFer and many councils sold of to housing associations
As a HA tenant you also don't have RTB unless transfered over from la , YOu have poss right to aqquire which is just a small discount and not all properties are eligible
I would get £10000 off which although nice isn't counted towards a deposit by mortgage companies etc and still puts is needing around a £20000 deposit

It really is. We have the option to buy for £17k but we never would. It's a good, fair system - we pay our rent, which goes back into the pot, to pay for maintenance and more homes (which our council are building at a rate of knots). Also RTB is shit and should never have been a thing in the first place!

Right - so council house rents do NOT pay for public services. They pay for maintenance, repairs and upkeep of said housing stock. That's not public services. Money from council tax pays for public services like libraries.

My HA rent goes towards local services. My HA provides bulk waste disposal, litter picking services, social groups for vulberable people, educational and financial support to local people whether in HA housing or not.

In fact, anything the HA have left over after maintaining housing stock is ploughed back into the local area, so in effect, my rent subsidizes the local council.

issuu.com/thirteengroup/docs/m0118771_social_value_report