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Is London really that bad for children?

80 replies

RancidOldHag · 12/07/2017 22:34

Because the Evening Standard has been reporting in a survey which rates it at the worst place in the UK

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-named-worst-city-in-the-uk-to-raise-children-a3539611.html

Main reasons are house prices and crime rates. The other factors they considered were access to green spaces, school rankings and average salaries. Not sure if they included other things, or how they weighted them.

Somewhat to my surprise, it said the best part of London to live in is Peckham. (or am I just hopelessly out of date?)

OP posts:
aeropro · 13/07/2017 09:40

It's definitely a mixed bag. My ds is 18 now and there are lots of advantages to being in London compared to his cousins who fled the city in their childhood. He goes to a top 5 university but is able to live at home cheaply, he's had plentiful employment opportunities on his doorstep and internships without extra living costs. Also he's been able to take part in lots of opportunities for sports/the arts with world-class facilities, that people travel to from across the UK and even from abroad. We've had access to lots of cheap or free leisure and arts facilities nearby. There's a good mix of cultures so no need to feel like a misfit if you have unconventional views or hobbies.

Having said that, we were a bit envious of our cousins in the suburbs in the past, who had access to top grammar schools and a more idyllic housing situation (we've always lived in flats without gardens, and DS went to tough inner city schools). And our GP and dentists are very snowed under in comparison.So it's quite satisfying to hear them grumbling now about the cost and hassle of ferrying their dc about and how much they'll have to pay for sending them to uni and internships in London - though in a way we've endured lower standards of living in the past in order to provide those opportunities so it all evens out.

GiGiraffe · 13/07/2017 09:46

Like all things it's horses for courses. Not sure how rigorous the methodology used by The Standard was considering this article today:

Schools in Derby a serious concern, says Ofsted http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40583528

As a life long Londoner, it's all very well saying that London isn't a good place to raise a family, but if your support network, friends, jobs etc are based in London, it would be a bloody big leap to go and live in Newcastle for example - sounds like a recipe for PND.

As many others have said London has great points and not so great points but it's a personal decision as to what tips the balance for or against.

It does make me really cross when I hear people pontificating about why it is child cruelty to raise kids in London - your kids, your choice - my kids, my choice (my choice is the right choice Wink)

welshgirlwannabe · 13/07/2017 09:46

I am so surprised at all of you rural living folk who can't access the countryside! How is that possible??

I live in a national park. There is no way i can avoid green spaces. I walk through them to get to the shop for a start. Our ordinary days out usually involve walking from the doorstep up a mountain or to the river or lake. Other days out include driving the short distance to a beach or a different mountain/ waterfall/whatever. Walking through a park is not the same! Both are fun though Grin

GraceGrape · 13/07/2017 09:46

I think children in London have great access to so many different things and are able to become independent earlier. However, I don't think any of the benefits of living in London make up for the dangers of the appalling air quality, which affect children more than adults. London is not set to reach legal levels of air pollution until at least 2025 ( and who knows if there will even be any compulsion to adhere to these levels after Brexit). Studies have shown that these levels of air pollution can stunt children's lung development. I know there is air pollution everywhere, but I just wouldn't want to bring up my children somewhere where the levels are so high.

BlueIsYou · 13/07/2017 09:47

I grew up in London, I couldn't stand it. I'm a real country girl at heart.

I wept every time I left rural Ireland when visiting cousins.

As a child, I felt as if I belonged in the country, not the city.

Driving to a local shop is fine by me!

Fiachra · 13/07/2017 09:55

Circumstances meant that we moved out of London to the countryside (midlands) when DS was small, but I loved living there, and to this day miss the culture, and vibrancy, the energy, the public transport, and the astonishing richness of the things, often free, that you can do with children. And I do agree about the access to nature cycling is impossible around here, because of speeding cars on twisty roads who simply don't expect to see cyclists unless it's thirty MAMILs at the weekend, and though I take DS out on walks because being in nature is important to me, his classmates might as well be living in the middle of a concrete jungle rather than in a village surrounded by rolling countryside for all the time they spend out in it. Whereas in our grubby bit of zone 2, we had no outdoor space of our own, but a wonderful park directly across the street where we more or less lived, nearby nature trails and conservation areas and reservoirs where you could swim/sail, and were a short direct train ride from Hampstead Heath. And when the weather was poor, the museums alone were a fabulous resource and we were in them all the time. DS took his first step in the Great Court of the BM.

I think the only thing that would concern me about moving back to London is that we would have to choose a far more bourgeois area than our old grubby, vibrant neck of the woods, because I know there was a sgnificant gang problem with older kids and the schools were poor.

But yes, I think it can be a wonderful place to raise children.

Gowgirl · 13/07/2017 09:56

Air quality is not something i can control so i dont worry about it i have watched my eldest blossom i didnt realise that his mind was so stunted from the school he was in.
He was coming home with a casually rascist attitude and thought no further than hanging round the fishing beach theres a career aspiration for you now he has a nice group of friends both from school and cubs and spends his time either at our lovley local park with mates or at each others houses
The differance between him and his cousin the same age on the coast is very noticable. They spend their lives being ferried about or at home and already have a village mindset despite holidays etc. Yes they have more living space but they spend far more time in it

Wilhelminaaa · 13/07/2017 10:01

Living in London has been a God send in regards to baby and toddler groups! So much on for parents and children to do, we could be out all day every day at different children centres and play-clubs.

I want to move out of London before my LO starts primary school though. For cleaner air, more greenery, and peace of mind that my kids can go and play outside in the garden or nearby field and not be right beside a main road and swathes of strangers constantly. Need a quieter environment.

MyCalmX · 13/07/2017 10:03

I grew up in the country (in Australia) and I couldn't wait to leave! I'm now living and raising my dd's in London and I love it. I just wish my family lived closer than a 24 hour flight.

DH and I have talked about leaving London to buy a bigger house but I honestly have no desire to be in the UK (away from both our families) if we're not in London. So we'll stick with our 2 bed house in London in favour of our imaginary 6 bed mansion in the home counties Smile

CroakingCrocus · 13/07/2017 10:15

I'm enjoying raising DC in London but a large part of that is linked to owning a house that's large enough for us. I think if we were still renting I'd be less optimistic about the future.

School is diverse with a lovely mix of kids. We live in a green part of the city so there's easy access to parks, woodland and playgrounds.

I grew up in the suburbs of a city in another country. We live in Z3 so pretty suburban but the contrast couldn't be greater to my home city. So many more things are walkable here and public transport is way better. I don't drive and would never be able to get away with that if I lived elsewhere.

Diamondlife · 13/07/2017 10:34

It's all very well moving out to pretty little villages when your child is 4, but what happens when he gets to 18? what does he do for entertainment & job opportunities?
He'll end up coming to London anyway most probably?

bruffin · 13/07/2017 10:43

You dont have to live in a village. I dont live in london, but have easy access to the city and west end and still on oyster. My dd spends half her life at theatre

VeuveLilies · 13/07/2017 10:52

That's all about house prices.
London has everything.
It's what you make of it.
This is my school run

Is London really that bad for children?
Believeitornot · 13/07/2017 11:28

We live in Sussex with access to the countryside a cycle ride away. Or a short drive takes us to the ashdown forest.

Where I used to live in London, I had many parks to take the dcs too but they and I referred messing about in the woodlands as opposed to the open green spaces (which we also have in our town).

But it really is the pollution for me. It's damaging to the health of young children and isn't being taken seriously at all by politicians and won't until it's too late.

Slimthistime · 13/07/2017 11:56

this is an interesting thread
friends with kids have opted to stay in London
friends without have moved out

I would move out - well I will the minute my mum is gone.

I'm mystified by people saying access to green space can be better - are you thinking of green space as a local park? Because yes I can walk to three postage stamp green spaces from here but they don't count.

"And even lovely Richmond park is a nightmare now it seems"

Is it? Someone recommended I visit - I'm outer North London - I couldn't be arsed with the journey because I no longer believe those spaces aren't heaving - if it's also heaving I will avoid it.

I have asthma which I am sure will improve when I leave!

Slimthistime · 13/07/2017 11:59

Diamond "It's all very well moving out to pretty little villages when your child is 4, but what happens when he gets to 18? what does he do for entertainment & job opportunities?
He'll end up coming to London anyway most probably?"

I wish my life had been that way round though. I grew up in London. So my friends and family are all here, I have nowhere to go "back" to and no one with whom I can stay if I want to escape. I can go alone to a cheap hotel in a nice place sure, but i often really really wish my parents had wanted to go and live in a nice village place so I could go and stay. In fact, at this point, I'd go back and be mum's carer. But they never wanted to live anywhere but London.

Mum is finally starting to realise it's a bit too crowded to be tolerable but of course millions disagree or they wouldn't be here! Though there's no way of knowing how many of us are just stuck here.

Slimthistime · 13/07/2017 12:02

Veuve, that school run picture is amazing!

bakingaddict · 13/07/2017 12:22

Bringing up kids in London is definitely easy with so many free and interesting things to do of a weekend, museums, great parks, exhibitions etc etc and ease of getting around the city as public transport is cheap compared to other parts of the country.

However, i'm reticent to say it's great for bringing up teenagers with the current levels of knife violence in the capital. I live in East London, and my eldest is a very gentle, shy boy and quite young for his age. Although he is about to turn 10 soon I worry about further down the line when he wants some independence to go out with friends and in a climate where young boys are getting stabbed just for just looking at some-one the wrong way, I beginning to feel that London is losing it's appeal for me.

bakingaddict · 13/07/2017 12:23

i'm beginning

ACubed · 13/07/2017 13:49

Slim - if you're outer North London check out Trent Park - fields, lakes, an animals sanctuary, loads of natural wildlife. I've only just discovered it.

hiveofactivity · 13/07/2017 14:06

In an ideal world obviously we'd all bring up our children in an idyllic village, surrounded by greenery yet close to a deserted beach.

They'd skip to school themselves through traffic free lanes and play outside late in the Summer, in our safe, crime free area.

The neighbours and school parents would dress, speak and look just like us and our children would play together.

Lack of job opportunities, child care or public transport wouldn't be a problem as one parent would be at home with a car all the time or extended family would be on tap to help.

Those of us not in that 'idyll' will have to make do with smelly, busy London with all its flaws.

As an aside, dp grew up smoking weed and getting up to various kinds of illegal activities - in a small rural town near the sea. It was largely due to boredom and needing a car to get anywhere.

Slimthistime · 13/07/2017 14:37

Cubed, thanks, I do go there but a friend thought Richmond park might make a change. I'll probably stick with Trent Grin

LiveLifeWithPassion · 13/07/2017 14:58

I live in zone 4 and I love bringing up children here. We have so much green space within walking distance or a short drive away. We have city farms, green cycling areas, woods, lakes etc
The kids can do pretty much any activity they're interested in including horse riding and sailing.
The holidays are never boring as there's so much to do. Lots of free stuff as well as expensive stuff.
All that central London has to offer is just a short tube journey away.
I'm never bored either.
I've made loads of friends from so many backgrounds.

I once heard a radio programme where someone was saying that you can tell the London kids at universities straight away as they have an air about them. They tend to take things more in their stride, can talk to anyone and just seem more worldly.
(I'm sure that probably applies to most city kids but I think it's a positive)

ACubed · 13/07/2017 15:37

Ah sorry! I've only just found it and am now an evangelist ha.

Slimthistime · 13/07/2017 15:40

Cubed - dont be sorry.

just don't tell anyone else about it Grin

joking aside, it's a bit fiddly to get to for me as well but I have been thinking lately that in order to get to more green space, without battling millions of people on the bus, I should probably open the wallet for once and take some cabs. I'm normally tighter than a gnat's arse but I don't go on holiday and def don't get enough time in a green space, so one way to make it more pleasant might be a cab home. At least then I won't lose all the benefits of peace listening to people yelling on the public transport home).

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