Is London really that bad for children?

[RancidOldHag]

Because the Evening Standard has been reporting in a survey which rates it at the worst place in the UK

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-named-worst-city-in-the-uk-to-raise-children-a3539611.html

Main reasons are house prices and crime rates. The other factors they considered were access to green spaces, school rankings and average salaries. Not sure if they included other things, or how they weighted them.

Somewhat to my surprise, it said the best part of London to live in is Peckham. (or am I just hopelessly out of date?)

London children have far more access to parks and gardens, fields and woods than countryside children

Errr, what? don't be daft and I say that as someone who lived in London for 20+ years!

I really don't get the green space being as good in London. Yes you do get the odd park, and Richmond park is s one off. But when I leave my now countryside house and wander for miles of footpaths through beautiful farmland, I fail to see how I can do that in London. Wandsworth Common appeats absolutely tiny to me now, my Labs would hate it.

As for the museums etc, yes they're nice, but unless you are a real culture nut and want to go twice monthly, it is mainly easy to travel in to London for the odd exhibition. Ditto theatres.

I agree London children have much more access to green space that 'just outside/home counties' children.

I've lived very rurally - no pavements, no access to fields (all owned by farmers). Countryside was to drive through or park in a lay by to look at Had a decent garden though (not wealthy, poor area)

In the Home Counties - had to drive to green space or had shit town centre park. This was the worst I think. Raised children there.

In London - parks are either walking distance with pavements or £1.50 on the bus. The easiest to access green space has been London. It's really clear when and where you can access green space. I've been chased away with shotguns rurally as there's no signs and on a perfectly normal country walk

Only if you can't afford independent schooling or live in a very nice area. Controversial potentially but having worked in a few south east London schools I wouldn't send my kids there for love nor money

And even lovely Richmond park is a nightmare now it seems. I used to live in Kingston and could walk to it, before moving to Wandsworth. Last time I went it took me ages to find a parking space, then couldnt move for the amount of people there.!

We really are happier out 😀

Ha yes your rural experience sounds just like mine Laurie! Plus walking anywhere involved navigating very narrow twisty roads and frequently having to jump into a ditch to avoid being run over by speeding cars. Delightful.

Obviously living proper rurally in your own land is likely the best - but very few can afford that and people don't often move out of London to go to that

They instead move to the Home Counties expecting a better quality of life and actually you have to choose very carefully to get that

it is mainly easy to travel in to London for the odd exhibition. Ditto theatres.

I guess this depends where you are! Home Counties, shouldn't be a problem. Northumberland more so! Where we are, about 3 hrs car/train to King's Cross. Upward of £40/head train fares (booked well in advance). A once a year trip at most, not something you can fit in on a Sunday afternoon around swimming, cricket, Cub camp, parties, band practice etc that seem to fill my DC's weekends.

I made a mistake not moving to London years ago. I've only been here a few months but I have a dog I walk in parks 3/4 miles a day.

I wish I'd raised children here.

There are some fantastic cities in the UK which offer culture, multiculturalism, brilliant restaurants, interesting architecture plus the advantage of reasonably priced housing. You'd never know these cities existed if you only read mumsnet! It's either London (which I love by the way) or the sticks. Let's hear it for Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield and all the other brilliant UK cities!

I do wonder though if services are generally much better in London. Busses here are approximately every 10 minutes, much further out they're every hour. I know that's not a reason to live here, but maybe all other services are better too because it's 'London' ?

I think London can be a bloody great place to raise children. Although this is having benefited significantly from gentrification on our starter home in Zone 2 pre-kids. We now have a lovely house with garden in a villagey community-oriented area of Zone 4. Great schools, lots of parks, lots of resources, fabulous public transport soon to be even better with the opening of Crossrail. And I can walk to lots of places. I could not cope with living in the country and having to drive to get a pint of milk. Plus our jobs are London based for the foreseeable. I love the diversity, the richness of people. I couldn't be having with a small place where people are all up in your business.
My husband spent a miserable teenagehood in the Home Counties where he felt isolated from friends and unable to easily travel to do things. He would have much preferred to be in London.

Yes, I really miss London buses!

Green space in our part of home counties far more/better than London, but don't have cafes!

Cities are always going to have better transport than rural areas because they're more densely populated which makes it cost effective. If you ran the twenty buses an hour that my local bus stop has at a busstop in, say, Richmond N Yorks, then the majority of them would be empty. You'd expand the user base somewhat if you improved the service but you'd soon come up against hard limits.

Also TfL is a special case because its raison d'etre is to move as many people as possible as fast as possible rather than to maximise profit in return for providing the minimum service required.

Growing up in the countryside I vowed never to do that to my kids. My brother and I were very isolated - one bus a day to the local town, which was a bit too far to cycle to, completely reliant on parents for going anywhere. It felt very claustrophobic as a child and teenager. Even now I return and my steps per day go down dramatically despite taking the dog for a couple of walks a day.

London though. Single parent with one dd. We walk, bus, tube everywhere. Within my little patch we know tons of people in walking distance, she will be going to a brilliant school, her friends her very cosmopolitan, brilliant sporting facilities, green spaces, art/theatre stuff. As she gets older I worry about her getting lost in a big secondary school, but I had a terrible experience in a small secondary school and I want a different experience for her.

Its also for me - I have a better career here, a strong social network with brilliant friends who are more open minded.

Its generally a much more diverse place (in all sorts of ways) which is why its so fab.

As well as Richmond there is Hampstead and Heath and Trent Park which are both very large and diverse. I love going to places in these parks where you can't see any buildings - it's just like being in the countryside.
I absolutely loved growing up in London, but we were fortunate to have a nice house, and now I've been really lucky and have a decent house of my own in London - this is not the norm, and for many it's a really cramped, overpriced existence.
One thing I think is great about raising children here is the opportunities and contacts they'll make - most children I went to primary and secondary school stayed in London due to great job prospects, so now I feel I have quite a wide web of friends doing really interesting jobs, due to it being the capital city. I really enjoy living somewhere that many people from around the country aim to move to.
But of course if you don't like busy cities it would be a bit much, and there are areas of high crime / pollution etc. Personally I think the pros outweigh the cons massively though.

I live in a village in the Surrey Hills. I laughed hard at 'London kids have more access to green spaces'. Ludicrous statement.

London definitely has a lot going for it for children, not denying that. But a park is not the same as real genuine countryside.

Yes I guess if you live in the country it's not 'access', you're just in it all the time.

I'm not going to answer for
User, but I think I know what they mean about the green space...
I grew up in the rural midlands, we never went out into the countryside partly because a lot of it was farmland and mostly because my parents weren't interested.

Where I live now in London I'm a ten minute walk from Europe's largest wetlands and a short bus ride from a forest, but I live in zone 3, so I feel well placed to access nature more than I did as a child-although that's down to my parents obviously.

I'm really pleased to be able to bring my children up in London. I did not enjoy where I lived as a child and feel the diversity and opportunities here are amazing. I also agree with PP that there are lots of other amazing cities in the uk. I'd also be happy in Leeds, Newcastle and Bristol to mention a few.

The only things that bother me about raising DC in London are

a) the current pollution levels - why has it worsened so much of late, when we're (allegedly) less congested? Or is that just 'less congested than we might otherwise have been'?

b) levels of mugging and the increase in knife crime that has been going on for a few months now. I'm not at all sure that the 'London is low crime' rhetoric is going to be borne out on this year's stats. Just when you stop worrying about whether DC can cross over safely in all kinds of traffic, you start worrying about how safe they are, even in daylight.

I too had a miserable teen experience having been moved from town to a pretty coastal village.
I just did not fit and left at 18 could be i was just a horrible child but when i returned to have ds (family support) i still didnt fit, i was so grateful to move back to london and raise my dcs here that i hummed the great escape all the way up the m25 and felt overwhelming relief at seeing glaxo! My dm now feels the same everytine she visits but she sort of forgot home was here while mired in village life.

We have several outstanding schools on our doorstep (zone 1), several parks, some with adventure playgrounds with playworkers, so kids over 7 can be left without hovering parent, it is diverse, we have lots of cheap restaurants around, travel is free for London children. You are never in a situation where the only childminder or cleaner in town has no vacancy. It is possible to walk or cycle to most places. Lots of baby and toddler groups, church-run, council-run, private, take your pick.

Kid's hobbies are well covered, several music schools and every imaginable sport in walking or 5-minute bus distance. 2 brownie and a scout pack close by. For teens, everything you could possibly want. Many of the hobbies very cheap and available for free if you are poor (inner city areas have all manner of funding for stuff like this). Kids who sing/ dance/ play an istrument get to perform at Shakespeare's Globe, the O2 and the Barbican not just the school hall. Routine school trips to Greenwich, the Tower and St Paul's Cathedral.

Drawbacks? Housing is eye-wateringly expensive of course and the kids will probably share a bedroom much longer than in the 'burbs. I imagine very few small-town doctor's or lawyer's kids share a room, in London, this is quite normal. But then the kids see it at their friends' houses and don't seem to be precious about it. Bunk beds are near-universal in zone 1 flats with children.

Would I live elsewhere? New York perhaps.

Id love a little weekend place in paris

I live in a west London zone 3-4 area. I was talking with a group of parents about the things our DC (5y) can do over the summer holidays. We had such a long list covering physical activities, cultural, educational, sightseeing, special events... and pretty much all of it for free. With the buses and tubes they hopefully won't need to go in a car to access any it.

I grew up in London (parents were at the vanguard of gentrifying a now highly desirable central area) and I'm so pleased that DD will do the same. If she decides to go to uni, she will be able to live at home to avoid racking up huge debt, and yet have a fantastic choice of universities, colleges and courses.