Richmond Borough Schools Chat 7

[muminlondon2]

Lots and lots of discussions on local schools and education issues preceded this thread, including Richmond Borough Schools Chat 6.

Anyone who wants to carry on that discussion, and offer information and opinions (without being moderated by any particular individual or interest group, bearing in mind all the usual mumsnet guidelines about respect and not getting personal, etc.) - feel free.

Today’s print RTT has (p 5): Council plans school for Stag Brewery site:

. . (the report says) it is the only site (in the borough) capable of accommodating a 6-form entry school . . a school will be needed from 2019 onwards . .

There is an artist’s impression of the plans for the site.

This is the report:

School Place Planning Strategy - Update 15/10/15:

1.1 This report gives an update to the School Place Planning Strategy adopted in January 2015, with specific reference to the forecast need for an additional
secondary school in the eastern half of the borough.

2.1 Cabinet is asked to approve the update to the School Place Planning Strategy (as set out in Appendix 1) and note the change in educational need and consequent priority for a secondary school on the Stag Brewery site . .

LalaLeona, there is a link (as given by bluestars) here, page 6, which shows the first preference applications to each school this year. As Waldegrave got the highest number of first preference applications (378) despite it only being for girls, even if every single Turing House pupil turned a duplicate Waldegrave offer down, it will still have been oversubscribed on first preferences. I suspect it's just not available yet!

MrsSalvoMontalbano, ooh, how interesting, thanks for that! RPA with 51% GCSE pass rate is not brilliant but 30% Ebacc is an improvement on last year. And it beat Ark Putney on Ebacc score, finally.

The fact that Grey Court got 52% on its Ebacc score makes me wonder whether if you just looked at girls, it may actually be doing as well as Waldegrave (60%) at least on the pass rate. That kind of breakdown is available in January. And when you compare those results to only 88% of Tiffin Girls getting that range of subjects, it's quite a fantastic achievement for both schools.

A supplementary cabinet paper, School Place Planning Strategy 2015-2024 – revised October 2015 , provides this useful reminder of the relentless population growth that is the root cause of our perennial lack of school places (p 2):

. . 7. The Mayor’s London Infrastructure Plan estimates that, as London’s population rises to 11 million and beyond, 600 new schools and colleges will be needed in the Capital by 2050. London Councils’ ‘Do the Maths 2014’ report . . predicts that between 2012/2013 and 2017/2018 there will have been a 23% increase in the state-funded school population within the borough, the fifth highest in London as a whole, 15-17% in the primary phase and 25%+ in the secondary phase.

The Office of National Statistics is predicting that the overall population within the borough will by 2024 increase by 15%, from the current 189,000 to 218,000, with the school age population increasing from 46,000 to 55,000 during that period . .

It will be interesting to see the value added at rpa for higher achievers as they don't have as many as the other local schools.

I don't think the boycott of the sats will affect things that much as I think the schools just did teacher assessment instead which is probably just as accurate

Waldegrave have asked a number of their students to change their AS Maths to another subject a few weeks into their first year, as they don't think these students will get an A. Not sure what entry requirement was, and whether policy is in interest of student or school league tables, but it has caused a headache for those affected as timetabling problems left them with very limited alternative options.

Twix45: this seems very odd to me: the school has a duty of care to its pupils to act in their best interests, not its own. So it seems to me they can only ‘advise’ or ‘recommend’ the pupils to switch to some - anything - easier so they’ll get a better grade; they can take the advice or disregard it.

Surely it’s not the case that only an A in AS Maths is likely to be of value to the pupil? I ask out of ignorance so any guidance on this would be helpful. I don’t even know what AS Maths covers.

As someone of the older generation,what I notice is that neither the young nor their parents can do elementary mental arithmetic beyond the 12 times table - where does that come in the maths syllabus?

I suspect this may be a way of masking a staff shortage. There is a MASSIVE shortage of Maths teachers in schools, particularly those capable of teaching A level, and it may be away of avoiding having to tell parents that actually they can't staff the subject.

RichmondHill, it would definitely be worth your while contacting SOS SEN, not least because they're locally based. I think they have a drop-in session at their office at Hampton Court fairly imminently.

There were 50 sitting AS Maths at Waldegrave and 58% got A/B (e.g. 29). Maybe they had only scheduled one class at A-level. Maths must require more teaching hours/ teachers than any other subject throughout the school.

Lots of gloomy headlines about teacher shortages at the moment: 11% shortfall of trainee Maths teachers, restrictions on visas/eligibility for overseas teachers, at the same time as a rise in pupil numbers and new schools (not to mention new sixth forms in this borough).

A very interesting paper Chris - thanks for posting that. Really shows the massive scale of the challenge in relation to nursery places where the Council is failing utterly at present and can't hope to provide 30 hours a week free any time soon unless it puts up council tax . Quite laughable to hear the bright young Tories from the Bright Blue think tank on radio talking about withdrawing child benefit from parents who don't take up the offer of a free nursery place against this background.

The teacher shortage must be a nightmare for secondary schools. My daughter has a new Korean biology teacher who seems to be a recent graduate of Imperial College - I think there must be some sort of scheme to get foreign postgrads to stay on for a bit to teach? Do schools in the private sector face these shortages too? - what is the pay difference between the state and private sector?

Does anyone know the distance that waiting list offers for Orleans Park reached? We're by Twickenham Green and the new maps only give 1st round offers...

Don't know the answer Jodah but if you're applying for 2016, contact the Admissions team and ask them.

There are a couple more allocation maps up now - for Teddington and RPA.

Hi Jodah - about two weeks ago the waiting list offers for Orleans had gone as far as 5th Cross Road. By the end of the summer holidays before term had started it was roughly around 3rd Cross. The first preference offers will more than likely for 2016, go further out than this years as the figures shown do not include the 17 (?) additional places the school made available and offered after the initial allocation. These extra places will be offered in the first round for 2016/2017. So the initial allocation should be wider, but the waiting lists will probably move more slowly.

Waldegrave has been added to the allocation maps - can't see Christ's. Compared to last year only one Waldegrave offer past the A316 in initial allocations, but Teddington's catchment went further, and Grey Court also overlapped the Turing House potential catchment centred on Somerset Gardens. Fewer Ham pupils crossing over to Teddington this year - they also have Kingston Academy now.

Thanks for the info..sounds like we're right on the border for Orleans Park based on that waiting list info (which would make for a nervous summer holiday!). Our son is not due to go to secondary until 2017, but we're trying to get an understanding now of the options open to us/him.

Thank you all for the info on this thread, it's been helpful many times, I am a long time lurker!

Jodah the REEC academy at Richmond College (don't know if the name has been decided yet) will open that year. It may ease demand for Orleans Park - hopefully - and you'd know immediately as it will be one of the six preferences as opposed to a separate application. By next September you'll also be able to see how Turing House fits in as part of the common application form this year. That's not reflected in the maps, though it would be reflected in the waiting list movement going down to Fifth Cross Road.

As you may have gathered, I've always been somewhat sceptical about Turing House fitting in without adversely affecting Twickenham Academy and Hampton Academy. HA had fewer applications but TA may have had more rejections once parents decided between the schools and in the long run it wouldn't be economically viable to have two small undersubscribed schools run by the same sponsor. I can imagine them combining on one site leaving a school building vacant for a new sponsor - whether that's Turing House itself or another. But in the short run, there will still be new options by 2017 and changes in admissions patterns.

My definition of a small school is one that is smaller than 150 pupils, i.e. smaller than the surrounding primary schools (many of them 90-120 pupils per year in Twickenham x 7). RPA has obviously survived a long period of being only half full, yet now come out the other side.

Thanks muminlondon2. I know a lot could change before it's time for us to choose..
I guess we'll see if the REEC is still on track for opening in 2017 during the course of next year...from what I can see a planning decision is due at the end of November.
As for Turing House, we've been following that story on and off over the last couple of years, and are keen to see how it develops over the next year. I have to say though that their current permanent site location seems far from ideal for a number of reasons (I know there has been lots of chat on that previously so not suggesting opening that one up again!).

Those maps are done differently this year as they include distance offers for all preferences not just first preference which will be why it looks like Grey Court has grown. I know 3 of those dots and they went to Turing instead. It's not a nice route over the river to GC on dark winter evenings. I've also met some fellow Turing parents that have been offered other schools since start of term and turned them down as their DCs are happily settled so that might mean waiting lists have moved further.

I've been observing the little Turings as I go past the site and doing PE in Bushy Park. About 80% of them seem to be boys which suggests to me that they are from the Waldegrave catchment area on the whole? They seem to enjoy their al fresco ping pong very much - they were still at it at 5.30pm the other night!

Jellytoto it's interesting that the maps are done differently but it doesn't follow that second preference offers - where a school is oversubscribed on first preference - would be any further away from the school. That applies to all those schools with maps except for StRR (still close to being oversubscribed on first pref). Their map was important to include in order to demonstrate how pupils in North Sheen and Kew may get shut out of RPA. No wonder Stag Brewery site has been identified as a secondary school. Few pupils there get into Waldegrave, and not all would get Christ's either. Otherwise, offers as second preferences may have been offered to those who didn't meet non-distance criteria elsewhere, e.g. religion + lottery (StRR) or academic (Tiffin). Anyway, Grey Court's cut-off was 2881m for 2014 and 3243m for 2015 so the catchment was indisputably wider and Kingston Academy may yet take off with North Kingston families and offer more opportunity.

It might not be a nice route to GC on winter evenings, but pupils returning to Teddington from GC will finish the school day 20 minutes earlier than they would have done at Teddington School, so better than the equivalent journey for Ham pupils going back from Broom Road.

The map change would make a difference for Grey Court because not many families this side of the river put it as first choice. Last year there was only one or two dots so it didn't look like much of an option. The new layout works better.

LProsser my DD is at Turing and there are 8 girls in her class of 25. There were lots who transferred with her from HHJS.

LProsser - the Turing map is here. The catchment is far and wide as you would expect for the first year of a new school.