Richmond Borough Schools Chat 7

[muminlondon2]

Lots and lots of discussions on local schools and education issues preceded this thread, including Richmond Borough Schools Chat 6.

Anyone who wants to carry on that discussion, and offer information and opinions (without being moderated by any particular individual or interest group, bearing in mind all the usual mumsnet guidelines about respect and not getting personal, etc.) - feel free.

I was incorrect about the 2003 budget cuts at Coulsdon High School being the result of falling rolls. It was a national crisis caused by rises in national insurance (as this year is related to pension costs) (TES August 2003). The Labour education secretary Charles Clarke apologised as the government had previously blamed local authorities. It affected several schools in Croydon but it did get resolved that year for Cousldon High School. It led to national changes in funding.

Numbers taking GCSEs at the school were stable between 2002 and 2006 at 150+ pupils until it went into special measures. I don't think the admissions policy change made a big difference either because partial selection hadn't actually been introduced. No special circumstances for the school then, though being headteacher is still a difficult job.

Richmond Adult Community College has been inspected by Ofsted and received a 'good' rating. Contextual information says:

'Most learners are adults taking part-time courses. Approximately half of the learners are from minority ethnic backgrounds. The percentage of pupils who leave school with five or more GCSE qualifications at A to C, including English and mathematics, in Richmond is above the national rate. Richmond is an affluent travel-to-work borough and unemployment levels are low. A significantly higher percentage of the population has higher-level qualifications than in most parts of England.* The main employment in the immediate locality is in the service industries.'

NorthSheenisNice, all school news relevant to this thread - the RPA bulge class was reported in the RTT a couple of weeks ago, but we still don't know how many people listed RPA as a higher preference in applications rather than just assuming they would get allocated a place, as you point out.

Notes on a recent meeting with the AET chief executive on forming a multi-academy trust with local primary schools:

'As the authority of RPA’s governing body is delegated to it from AET, any request on the school’s part to form a MAT would need to be ratified by the AET board. In forming a multi-academy trust RPA would have to leave AET.

Ian Comfort told parents he "personally would take some convincing" that a MAT could deliver positive change for RPA that could not be achieved from within AET, but that he would listen carefully to any proposals from the local governing board.'

I know someone at one of those "local primary schools" - I think the primaries are equally unconvinced about what it would add.

I would be fascinated to know the details who were turned down by RPA and where else they applied to (and also turned down) but I guess we don't get those details.

I suspect that we will be in catchment for RPA, Chiswick and Christs even without a bulge class so its only a theoretical discussion for me (in a couple of years)

But it fascinates me how in a borough with an (relatively) affluent and educated population the council seem to struggle with providing adequate secondary schools in the areas people need them. Perhaps it does come down to the expectation that people will move into the private sector and a reluctance to forego profits from selling land for private development. I'm sure others are better informed than I am!

If I was a parent with a child at Barnes or at East Sheen I'd be worried about leaving the local authority because it really has been good for primary schools. How far the LA is pushing them to leave, I can't tell. But even if I was a parent with a child at RPA I don't see how primary school heads can add anything either, or tell RPA how to run GCSE courses. I'd rather see RPA in a federation with other good secondaries.

The idea of an 'all through' school just doesn't work in this borough - so many in Barnes, Kew and Richmond are happy with state primaries but want private secondaries - particularly selective ones. That probably answers your second point, too - at least historically, when secondaries used to be LA maintained, if as many secondary places as primary were provided it would lead to a 15-20% surplus of places (more without a Catholic secondary). And so because five out of nine secondaries are very close to borough boundaries, places would also go to out of borough pupils. So more pupils from Granard primary Wandsworth were (and might still be) likely to get into RPA on distance than from Lowther. The link system was a way round that (Greenwich ruling - you can't reserve places just for borough pupils), but in the end it only worked if schools were oversubscribed - and that just meant two schools that would have had a Richmond catchment on distance anyway (Orleans Park and Teddington).

Northsheenisnice mum many of those parents in Barnes, Sheen, Mortlake who have been very happy with state primary education have ended up getting dragged into the ratrace that is the entry process for selective schools (and subjected to the anxiety and pressure they do not want for their children) because they felt they did not have a good state option at secondary that was equivalent in quality to the primary education they received. Either that or they ended up playing the state choices and ended up in state schools miles away. I know many many families like that. And it is manifest in an annual "Help with entry to the South West London selective schools" thread on here filled with posters who typically feel bewildered and worried and just wish they had a state option they could have confidence in.

Had everyone in the borough had access to schools like Orleans and Teddington then there would not have been the 15- 20% excess places mum quotes. Indeed those schools could be filled several times over. The fact is that under LEA control (with Lord True on the governing body) RPA with a catchment of excellent primaries just like Teddington and Orleans was allowed to decline to the point where parents no longer had the confidence to send their children there. You could actually chart it's decline from the fact that in the road I lived in 17 years ago all the 16+ children had gone there, and some had gone on to achieve academically, one to Oxford. But as parents with younger children we were aware it was no longer that good option and would need to plan accordingly. So many of us appreciated we were going to end up going private or moving, what we didn't know was that the road would go out of catchment for all the local primaries the year we applied and those limited choices came sooner than expected.

If the number of Year 6s in state education going into state secondaries was just the average of the ten most affluent boroughs in London (and Richmond is not in the five most affluent) then it would take two new 150 pupil secondaries to accommodate them.

The parents in this borough take the education of their children very seriously, the fact is that as shown at primary level, build good state schools (or improve poor ones) and they will come.

Hence I understand that part of the reason the Lowther parents were so upset to get no option but Twickenham Academy was that they felt that they had been encouraged as part of RPA's strategy to become the community school to feel that the school was a feeder and their children could stay in the community for secondary education, not to have to disperse off to whichever school in Wandsworth or Hammersmith came up with waiting places that reached their address. It genuinely was their first preference.

And I have yet to see any evidence of anyone in the Primaries, and on their governing bodies liking the idea of a MAT. Counsellor Hodgins had a poor reception when he tried to raise the issue with the Lowther parents and governors. I wonder if this is one of Lord True's "grand ideas" about what is good for the community without actually asking the community first which because of the way this Council operates the staff and Councillors have to go through the motions of progressing. We have quite a bit of experience of those over in Twickenham

There certainly were some Barnes parents who wanted the HT of BP take over as HT of RPA, given that the RPA HT was appointed at the same time as the Grey Court HT and has made nowhere near as much progress as Grey Court, despite massive resource being put into the school.

As background NorthSheen it is the Councils prime strategic objective in the management of it's schools to minimise the budgetary risk by having no spare capacity in schools. They can do this without too much risk of not meeting their statutory obligation (though there have been times with Reception children where they have failed to provide places before the Spring Term) because they can rely on parents faced with no state school place to be deterred into finding other options. The Head of Education, Nick Whitfield, regards it as "unfortunate" that this strategy leaves parents with the uncertainty of sitting on waiting lists sometimes until term starts. The National Audit Office expect that LEAs should run at around 4% spare capacity to minimise that sort of parental anxiety and even allow for some small element of the "choice" that the politicians -con-- boast they have introduced to the system. It does actually suit them to have less popular schools so that the deterrent effect comes into play, both in terms of reducing the numbers attracted to the borough by good schools and forcing parents into the difficult decisions that ease the pressure on school places.

MrsSalvo Barnes and North Sheen parents can't access any of the outstanding comprehensives. They can compare all they like but in the end they have to decide whether they have confidence in the local school and what is available to them. The parents I know have gone there, talked to other parents, looked at the statistics and decided they can and that is why applications to RPA went up 46% last year, and more children are going there from eg East Sheen and even SheenMount. I know you seem to be on a campaign to undermine that confidence for some reason. I am not cheerleading for RPA, I am only cheerleading that the Sheen parents now feel that it is a choice.

Interesting to look back at the results of 1998, 17 years ago.... Shene School was average, with GCSE results similar to Orleans Park, but not as good as Waldegrave, Grey Court or Teddington (English and Maths not specified then). But it was fully subscribed. Probably because Christ's was really not an option then, so there was absolutely no other choice.

Fast forward to 2006 and more below average. Christ's was suddenly overtaking, and Grey Court - though it had suffered a blip - was still getting better results than both of them.

Of course, results can't be compared year on year - courses varied, English & Maths weren't always included, vocational courses were 'in' and then they were 'out'.

Ah, the days before the obsessions with Ofsted, and results, and now the brain-numbingly awful the Tories' 'coasting school' definition, which is going to break up communities yet do absolutely nothing for schools that are already academies. I feel sorry for all teachers.

Chicken or egg? During the 2000s, Shene School got squeezed by a resurgent Christ's (with a bit of help when Richard Burke took over) and the new Harrodian. Sponsored academy status - and the waiting - created uncertainty. Watch numbers switch for GCSE entrants in state schools, with Harrodian creaming off bright local children increasing its intake:

2000 Harrodian 15, Shene 197, Christ's 38
2003 Harrodian 34, Shene 183, Christ's 51
2006 Harrodian 55, Shene 169, Christ's 96
2009 Harrodian 81, Shene 139, Christ's 115

know you seem to be on a campaign to undermine that confidence for some reason

I would love RPA to be an outstanding school, but wishing it were so and ignoring the underlying issues (like putting your fingers in your ears and singing la-la-la) does not make it so.
What is wrong with asking school hard questions about the finances and about what is being done about the undeniable fact that progress is lower than in similar schools, and constructively try to improve it? Rather than just hoping a 'naicer' intake will mask the underlying structural weaknesses?

I won't argue with you on the impact of government policies mum. Many experienced, committed and inspiring teachers of my generation have finally turned their back on teaching after decades long careers. I can't think of a single of my fellow university alumnae that went into teaching that hasn't now left the profession, or the country, mainly in the last couple of years. Some of them had poured so much energy and commitment into their careers and endured previous political interference but the recent changes and the undervaluing of their professionalism have just been the last straw. Of course you need a mix of youth and enthusiasm and experience in schools but .....

For the record the turn around at Christ's was bought about by Richard Burke's predecessor. Both Shene School and Christ's were subscribed by pupils travelling along the South Circular, refugees from inner city areas and even worse performing schools. Parents did not lose confidence in the schools because of the results, it was the knives in the playground and some pretty appalling behaviour on a daily basis in the vicinity of the schools and the bus stops on Richmond Road. Both at Shene and Christ's the school leadership teams seemed impotent in the face of it. And no Heads or teachers in the Sheen Primary Schools were advocating sending your children there. The diocese put in a Consultant Head who was by all accounts dynamic and convinced parents with a mix of change of brand the current smart uniform, educational strategies, stricter discipline and acknowledging that there had been serious problems that he was addressing, convinced parents that they were starting anew from a Ground Zero. I know several who felt convinced to put their trust in the school instead of going private or further afield. The change in behaviour was dramatic. Shene School took longer to get it's rebrand, investment and better leadership. In contrast parents do not feel Richard Burke was inspiring or did any more than maintain the status quo, and were disappointed that they felt there was an ongoing complacency / poverty of aspiration from the exciting beginnings. Several were frustrated by the St RR OFSTED feeling they did not get such effective leadership. But there he inherited a team and he has done well at St RR with the young enthusiastic team he has there, perhaps his quiet experience are what they need to ground them in good practise.

I wouldn't say Harrodian was ever attracting pupils away from Shene School. Even by private school standards it is expensive and glossy and it's market back in 2000 was the offspring of wealthy parents and expats who could not get in anywhere else. You had to be prepared to kit your child out with all the designer accessories. It had some early teething problems when it had the team who went off to Hampton Court House after various romantic scandals and it took a long time to develop a more attractive proposition and build it's reputation up with local parents. It has also benefitted from the marmite Head at Ibstock embarking on a project to take the school up the tables. The parents at primaries like East Sheen who opted private were focused on the traditional selective options LEH / Hampton, the Hammersmith Schools, KGS with Emmanuel, Surbiton and St Catherine's at the less selective end of the scale .

MrsSalvo mum has pointed out that there may be some issues with those figures, and frankly your tone is more bitter especially when you mention the Head than the issues justify Parents will go to the school and decide for themselves, won't they?

I see nothing wrong with a school reaching out to it's community and making efforts to win their confidence. Whether they are "naice", frankly as offensive a stereotype when applied to young people as any other, is irrelevant because as we have all discussed it is not the intake that makes a school outstanding. It was completely crazy to have a school at the heart of a community that only served half of it...........

Richmond is not in the five most affluent [boroughs]

Rightmove data states that average house price in London is £532,455, and while SW London was cheaper than Westminster and the City, Richmond (£749,492) was most expensive area in SW London. Barnes (£1,334,325) was more expensive than nearby Mortlake (£895,395) and East Sheen (£860,462).

Richmond Park constituency has the highest household income in the country.

I wouldn't say Harrodian was ever attracting pupils away from Shene School. Even by private school standards it is expensive and glossy and it's market back in 2000 was the offspring of wealthy parents and expats who could not get in anywhere else. You had to be prepared to kit your child out with all the designer accessories.

Absolutely - my sisters children were the early Harrodian era and they lived in Barnes (as it happened they went to more academic privates) and she would laugh at the idea that anyone who had Harrodian on their list would have considered Shene School in a month of Sundays!

I really don't know enough about the problems at RPA of which you speak MrsSalvo (are there questions about the legitimacy of their finances?), I know it is not as highly rated as GreyCourt but I do know that most of my local friends are not particularly worried about whether the school is rated as "outstanding" like Greycourt just that the school is good enough to provide a competent education for our children. It seems that many many more people believe it can do this now than have believed it for a long long time. And so it is now seen as a credible alternative.

It might not have achieved outstanding school status, it may still have work to do (I could say the same of our primary school!) but it has done better than some other schools in the same boat a few years ago and worse than others. All in all a reasonable result I think.

I wouldn't take seriously any proposal to put any of the local primary heads in charge of a massive secondary personally.

I wouldn't take seriously any proposal to put any of the local primary heads in charge of a massive secondary personally.

Agree!

Improvement does have to be nurtured and sustained and Richard Burke did do that at Christ's, even if he didn't kickstart the process.

MrsSalvo has backed up her points with evidence - looking at progress - and RPA still has a way to go. Good that parents are willing to cheer it along, however.

Education DataLab has reported that 405 secondary schools and 774 primary schools could be defined as 'coasting' from the last three years of data, under the latest definition given by Nicky Morgan. Schoolsweek reports this, suggesting four Outstanding schools would fall into this category.

Presumably 1,200 new superheads are all waiting in a locked room somewhere, in addition to those about to head up 500 new free schools.

The 'superheads' are likely to be those who have a demonstrable track record of improving progress in schools - there are plenty of those.
And there are also plenty of enthusiastic and able deputy and assistant heads who can take over the reins in the 'superheads' schools - because one of the attributes of a an effective head is they build up their staff skills and responsibilities. one of the very effective things the Grey Court head has done is to have a marzipan layer of very talented and hardworking deputies.
And it doesn't matter what type of school they have previously led - leadership is transferable - a primary head can effectively manage a secondary and vice versa.

The thing is, all those effective leaders are already in jobs. And there's a recruitment crisis. And changes in immigration rules mean that any non-EU teacher earning less than £35,000 may get kicked out after a qualifying period, so that pool is shrinking further.

The Education DataLab stats states that these 'coasting' definitions disproportionately include schools with higher numbers of poorer children. You bet most are by now already academies. But nothing in the bill about changing sponsor.

The distribution of primaries that will be hit is less likely to be weighted towards deprived areas so more in leafy boroughs like ours could be picked off for the academy sausage machine. As this Bill is going to strip away rights to appeal or question the sponsor, parents will be told to get stuffed. Not so much which 'super heads' will be ready and willing, but which superchains? Nicky Morgan may go down as the dimmest and most uninspiring education minister, although her bill could equally be torn to shreds in committee or the HL.

New immigration rules will hit schools, heads warn

a primary head can effectively manage a secondary and vice versa I'm sure this is possible but I'm not sure its advisable in any other than exceptional circumstances.

I became the finance director of a large company without much experience of running a company that big many years ago - there were good reasons why I was the best choice that that time but truly it was probably one of the most difficult things professionally I have ever done and I only got through with a great deal of support from colleagues and my boss and made quite a few mistakes. And I would like to consider myself to have been an extremely competent person.

I'm not sure that's the vision for superheads - people who need massive amounts of support and a huge learning curve in order to manage a school 5X bigger than they're used to.

I'm sure it's possible I'm just not so convinced that its a clearly better option to the person already in place - and if the primary head had aspirations to be a secondary head why wouldn't they already be aiming for that anyway?

No 2016 6th form brochure from Richmond upon Thames yet so I can't see what subjects the schools are offering (on 2015 brochure, none of the schools were offering Classical Civilisation). Dd went to Esher College open day today which of course she loved but we are at the mercy of the ballot! ARGH

Spoke to a teacher at Collis the other day - she was telling me how long it took to get a new head teacher after their old one retired. She said it's really hard to attract heads these days - not many in the market and no-one particularly keen to do it!