New Secondary Schools for Richmond 3

[BayJay]

Hello and welcome to the Mumsnet thread about Richmond Borough Secondary Schools. The discussion started in February 2011 in two parallel locations here and here.

In November 2011 the most active of those two threads, in Mumsnet Local, reached 1000 messages (the maximum allowed) so we continued the conversation here.

Now its May 2012 and that thread has also filled up, so the conversation will continue here ......

What are you talking about JoTwick? Really - there is no problem at primary levlel. In the course of my work I have probably been to every single primary in the borough and I can assure you that you are very mistaken; schools work together, pupils mix for a variey of activities, from sports, to dance to art to socialising and fundraising.

There need not be a problem at secondary level either, but you seem determined to ensure that this is not the case.

Magic - As a person well travelled across our boroughs schools, I am surprised that you are not cognizant about the challenges at the primary level. Its hard to believe that you do not know of people who are forced to go private or move houses - some of them have posted on this thread. Could I please also request you to read the following thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/local_richmond_upon_thames/a1405058-Late-primary-admission-what-happens

JoTwick - I am chellenging you about community cohesion and working together - not primary places overall!

You were implying that community links were not there at primary school and Faith schools are dividing the community. It is this I am calling you on.

Magic -Community cohesion, working together and primary places they are all intertwined. From my personal experience, when children of all backgrounds go to their local schools, strong bond is formed between the school and community and there is lot of cohesion and working together. This can happen in both community and faith schools that are inclusive like the CoE. Bonds are disrupted, when someone is forced to go private or move away. If all faith schools were inclusive, there would be less friction as no one would feel they had unequal opportunities. There is a reason why the Govt is encouraging them through policies, practice and legislation.
Majority of our hectic lives centre around the school and yes there are some but limited opportunities for cross school integration - its an area for improvement where lot more can be done, but there are practical and time challenges.
I would suggest that next time you are doing the school rounds, please try and knock on the doors and speak to parents to get some grass root perspectives. There is more there what is seen in school meetings and heard from their cheerleaders

JoTwick - valid points. A good place to start would be to start talking to the community around Clifden Road, where the community cohesion will be most impacted. The current proposals will end up having Catholic kids from all over the borough coming to Clifden and the local community having no option but to send theirs to RPA. Surely RPA can be filled with kids from local primaries. So there are two scenarios here - either it will improve and get oversubscribed with local kids and hence Twickenam kids will not get in or it will not improve and continue to have spare capacity, due to rejection from local parents. If unfortunately it is the latter, then its unreasonable to expect people from Twickenham to send their kids there. Paul Hodgins should set a positive example by sending his kids and encouraging local parents to accept RPA, rather than turning to Twickenham parents.

"Paul Hodgins should set a positive example..."
Paul H is one of the good guys in this sorry tale. He's put a lot into RPA over the last few years. I don't know if he's chosen it for his own child or not, but if he hasn't been able to bring himself to do that then I imagine he will be as disappointed as everybody else.

Whether he's able to use his diplomacy skills to persuade Lord True of his folly is another matter entirely. And whether he votes with his party or his conscience on the final decision will presumably depend on how much he values his political career.

Its will be sad for democracy if genuine councillors feel that their political career rests more on following the party line, rather than the need for following their conscience and doing the right thing for the people.

The Maharashites have sent out an email: . . We had a great interview with the Department for Education team on Friday 4th May and we are feeling more confident than ever . . They ask their supporters to bombard the DfE with messages of support:

'Here are some points you can mention:

• Maharishi School Richmond is the school you want your child or children to go to
• Maharishi School Richmond is the best school for Richmond
• That the site on Oldfield Road is the best site for a school in all of Richmond
• And anything else you would like to tell them!'

These emails will I'm sure have no effect and may well be binned unread apart from their titles - one weakness of email communications. Is there any word how the Church school's interview went?

At the Scrutiny committee meeting, the Council argued that there was no need for additional schools, and it was meeting the wants of the Catholic community.
The committee voted 7:6, with 1 abstention in favor of the Catholic VA school proposals. The 5 Tories and RC and CoE Diocese representatives voted in favor and the 4 Lib Dems and 2 Parent Governors voted against. The Parent Governor from Vineyard abstained from voting. So they have now recommended to the Cabinet that they go ahead with the proposed Catholic schools.

Thank you for sharing gmsing. Do you know how the sixth-form discussion went?

Surely the RC representative should have abstained from the meeting like the the NLS4T representative, who left the meeting declaring prejudicial interest. However that now seems to have been a handing over of Clifden Road to the Catholics. Dissapointingly it now seems there will be no Clifden Free school.

There was only a short time left for the sixth form discussion, which raised some questions about whether it was possible to cover the subject properly. At 10.30 it went straight to a vote on whether to recommend to cabinet that the proposals be accepted. The motion was passed.

Jo, free school proposers aren't able to enter negotiations over sites. The government does that on their behalf once they are approved.

It was always the case, and remains the case, that if no VA school is approved for Clifden Rd, then it could become available to other providers. If it doesn't become available then another site would need to be secured.

Beverly Saunders has a personal and prejudicial/financial interest as she is a director of the Free School Bid.
As a co-opted member she would have had no vote anyway.

Andy Cole gave a statement at the beginning of the meeting highlighting why he was entitled to stay.

Most people at the meeting had a pre-determined position; they were conservatives, or lib dems, or had signed the Risc petition etc - if they all had to leave, then there would have been no body left to take part in the meeting!

I am curious as to why exactly Cllr Knight, who is not on the O&S committee was able to make a speech, ask questions etc. He is leader of the Lib Dems, but I thought that he could only be there as an observer?

I think that the NFS4T will go ahead, just on another site.

BayJay thanks for that. However the Free school proposers clearly set an expectation that Clifden Road was the preferred site. They even urged their supporters to respond to the consultation indicating preference for Free school. Is it too much to expect them to get the Council to wait for teh decision on their Free school application, before making a decision

Attention now shifts to the main event: The Cabinet meeting on Thursday, 24 May 2012 at 7:00 pm. The agenda will be published 5 clear working days before the meeting.

Hello, does this mean that some secondary schools will now get 6th forms? If so, which schools?

Thanks for all the info on the changes, there certainly is a lot to think about!

JoTwick I think NFS4T are right to stay relatively neutral in this matter, and not stir up any negativity. They need to have a positive relationship with the Council, other schools and the whole borough community. Most non catholic Schools have done the same, though the Stanley governors have been absolute heroes in standing up for the interests of their pupils.

However I hope that last night I did make the point passionately that the community of Twickenham needs a new school, that it is bad planning to rely on Twickenham parents to fill up capacity at the other end of the borough because most who can will find other options, the site should be used to meet the needs and wants of our community and since our community have made clear that it has a demand for the Free School that the Council should at least wait to see if it has funding and consider the case of both sets of parents who have demonstrated demand.

I have to say after last night I think that the only thing that will stop the Catholic School getting the site is if Lord True has some epiphany and changes his mind or a legal challenge is successful. As gmsing says it was about needs versus wants and their assessment of needs as has always happened in this borough implicitly assumes a fair proportion of non Catholic parents with needs will feel forced into paying or moving away. The wants of the Catholic community have more weight than the wants of the Twickenham community. As an instance Matthew Paul came out with the argument that if the Catholic church were to call the borough's bluff and sell all their school buildings it would be extremely costly to the Council. Perhaps all the parents who move or go private because of the schools situation should call the Council's bluff and actually insist on state school places here, it would require more than one new secondary school to satisfy demand if the number in state primary versus secondary were just the average of the top 10 most affluent boroughs (and that doesn't take account to those who feel forced away at 4)

Please all people who want the Free School at Clifden Road write to your Councillors, to Lord True, ahead of the 24 May meeting, don't make it easy for them to ignore your needs and wants.

Barry, belated welcome to the discussion.

The answers to your questions are:

1. Yes (assuming Cabinet accepts the scruinty committee's recommendation on May 24th).
2. All of them. This decision related to Waldegrave, Orleans, Grey Court and Christs. The Academies are also getting sixth forms, under a separate process. Twck Academy and Hampton Academy sixth forms are opening this September.

If you want to know the full history you'll have to read the whole thread .

I am surprised that one person did not vote . If you dont have courage to vote, why become a voting member?

Catholic school wins committee backing is the RTT report.

Jeev - I think that is a bit harsh. The O&S committee is about more than this one issue.

I actually think that the Governor that abstained was the only person who entered that room without a pre-determined position. She asked sensible questions and really seemed to be listening to what was being said, which is more than I can say for one of the other Governors.

I was dissapointed that the Committee did not accept my recommendation to conduct a Equalities Needs Impact Assessment in light of the Catholic school proposals that will create unequal opportunities for a number of minority groups. As per the Equalities Act 2010 the Council needs to advance equality and foster good relations in the community, yet it is only relying on an Equalities Needs and Impact Assessment done in 2007, updated in 2009. In the Use of Clifden Road paper - we see factually inaccurate data and misleading justifications to support the Councils need for Catholic VA schools. In Para 8.7, the BME % are wrong as they include White Irish and White other groups, which should is inconsistent with Richmond?s Equality Data Mapping Audit 2011 So using the correct definition and as per the School Census data published in June 2011, the avg BME in the 6 Richmond RC primaries is 14% compared to 23% in other borough primaries.This would be reflected in a Catholics-only secondary and would simply be a further contribution to ethnic segregation rather than diversity. Similarly Para 8.8 on FSM is highly misleading. Because of variations in affluence across the borough, the only valid comparisons are either at the level of the borough as a whole, or between neighbouring schools in the same area. Examples Stanley at 10% is in the same street as St.James? with only 1% (one of the lowest in the country). Nelson at 11.5% a few yards away from , St.Edmunds with only 3.6%. A Catholic VA secondary would only have 3% FSM if - as intended - it draws only from borough Catholic primaries, compared to the lowest in the existing secondaries of 9% (Waldegrave and Teddington) . This is extremely unfair in an challenging economic environment, in which I hope you will all agree that priority should be given to meet the needs of the underprivileged, who may not have the options of going private or moving homes.

Sorry I should have said did not respond and not did not accept, since I got no response

Magic - I understand your point but Clifden Road is perhaps one of the most significant and long debated issue. Irrespective of which way one votes, its important to show decisiveness. Hence I am not impressed with the abstention and I know parents from Vineyard feel let down.

I have admired the support that Catholic parents have recieved from their headteachers and governors and the efforts they have put in to protect the interest of their students.

Good to also see that the Twickenham (or wherever they go now) Free school people learning the art of political lobbying :)