My school dilemma

[mmsmum]

Hi,
I've started a thread in Education, Secondary Education about my school dilemma. I would really really appreciate advice from local Mums who might have personal knowledge of the schools I'm talking about. I posted in Education to get a wider opinion but would love Glasgow Mums to help please.
Thank you :)

PS> Should I link to it? How do I do that?

What do you want help with?

no idea on how to link but what do you need help with? x

This is the op on the other thread - hope you get some advice, op!

Hi Everyone,

I'm new here so please be gentle! I'm looking for advice and opinions on my daughters schooling options. I don't have any friends or family I can speak to so turning to all of you

She sat the entrance tests for Glasgow private schools and today we got the results. Sadly, we didn't get in to the one she wanted (Glasgow Academy) but did get an offer for another one, Kelvinside Academy, one she is less keen on. So I have a dilemma.

We are, for financial reasons, in the process of selling our house. This means I will have a smallish lump sum which I could either use to pay for a private education or for renting a house in the catchment for a good state school in a nice area. I'm thinking about Mearns Castle in East Renfrewshire.

My problem is is not just about the school my daughter goes to but where we end up living for the next 6 or so years. If she had got into the school of choice, there would be no question, she would go to the school and we would live where ever, but now I don't know what to do.

Does anyone have experience, gossip or opinions of either of these schools? Or had anyone been in a similar situation?

I've asked for tours of both but think I'll have to make a decision about Kelvinside before we get to visit Mearns Castle and hear if they will keep a place for her to start at the beginning of August, in case we haven't moved in time.

Please be honest with what you think, I'm open and will not be offended (well, I'll try lol) What would you do? Thank you

i dont have any opinions for either, but douglas academy is a very good school. might be worth you looking at, i would suggest you getting a house in a nice area than spend all that money on private education, as i know douglas is as good as if not better than some private schools, good luck x

oops should say douglas academy is in milngavie x

Thank you normantebbit :)

I have looked (briefly) at Douglas Academy as I'd heard it was very good but the house prices and rents there seem to be quite high. I don't know the area well though and would appreciate it if someone could tell me if there are cheaper areas within the catchment. DD would love to live in the middle of nowhere and I think she would like Milngavie, we don't mind being in a little house, as long as it has a garden.

most houses in milngavie have gardens, you can live in most areas around there and still go to douglas acdemy but there are a few areas of beardsen i wouldnt recommend, il have a look later at houses for you if youd like, let me know your price and what you need, ie bedrooms x

If you want your DD to attned means castle you need to rent a house there now. The council are now considering placement requets and I expect that the school will be full by the end of march. AFAIK no council will keep a place for you in an over subscribed school in case you happen to move there before august

I just read your other thread and see that your DD didn't get into the High school and Glasgow academy. In that case I think you would be better to send her to a state school, where there will be a wider range of abilities. As others have said, there are several excellent schools in east dunbartonshire and east refnfewshire. Why don't you look to rent or buy in one of their catchment areas. But you will need to be very quick to get a place in an over subscribed school.

Good luck

Williamwood is a very good school too, and St Ninians, Eastwood. I'd recommend most High schools in the area.

Thanks everyone for you replies :)

I phoned Mearns Castle yesterday and they said they would call back to arrange a tour, they didn't call back yet but they also said to put in a placing request asap so that dd could start in august even if we haven't moved in time (to avoid starting at one school and moving a few weeks into it).

Dd didn't get into her school of choice because of her maths scores. The High School said to get her some tutoring and try again next year as she just hasn't had what they call 'a solid primary education'.

I think I'm going to just have to do the tours at Kelvinside and Mearns Castle and let dd decide, because I never will! tbh I like the idea of living in an area where dd goes to the local school and her friends are around. But she is a keen learner and big on art, drama, music etc and I would want to give her access to all that if I can. She is quiet, shy and such a good kid I want to make sure I do whats right for her, she deserves it!

Mummy03 thank you for the offer of help. I'd been looking at 2 beds min. (3 if rooms are small so we can set up a desk and keep our books out), parking for one and outdoor space with direct access to it. Re. price, I haven't got a clue yet but as little as possible really

I would recommend that you have a back up plan, in case your placement request to means castle is not successful. If you move to newton means and means castle is full, then you woud probably get offered a place at Eastwood

You said that you had a lump sum put aside to spend on a private education for your DD. Since that must be e around £60k, why don't you put that towards a house in an area with good schools?

Hi Kristina, is Eastwood good/bad/indifferent? I'm not sure I even know where it is.

My choice was always house v school and if she had got into the school she wanted to then we would have gone for it and life would be simple, but it wasn't to be. So, now I need to decide whether to accept the place at Kelvinside or move to, probably, Newton Mearns. But, from the sounds of it she might not even get a place in a good local school. I'm staring to worry we'll end up with no school at all.

Eastwood is good, just a more diverse catchemnt area than means castle or williamwood

You will not end up with no school at all, wherever you live your local authority will find your DD a place. It just might not be at the school you want

If you have £60k in cash then you are in a betterpostion than many!

douglas is a lovely school and milngavie is a great area. my son will be going to douglas if we're still here in 5 years (eek! so soon!). can also help with looking for houses (what i'm doing just now... yawn!). there are a couple of 2beds for under £100k just now which is v v v unusual and very much "do-er up-er" houses... but one is really close to douglas. x

We're about to go and have a look at Shawlands Acedemy. Even though it is (relatively) inner city Glasgow, it seems to have a good reputation, a well respected head teacher (very important) and enthusiastic staff. It is not our catchment but we are close and the depute head at ds' primary school has recommended it as somewhere that would suit ds (rather than the secondary that the primary school feeds into formally).

After all, Newlands, Langside and Shawlands Primary Schools all feed into Shawlands Acdemey - and they are all reasonable primary schools.

Ds is only in P6, so we are preparing in advance.

prettybird- Shawlands has a bad reputation for gangs because of friction between some of the areas in its catchment. A fair number of kids in the feeder schools move away, put in placing requests elsewhere or go private.

mmsmum- I went to the open days for both Glasgow Academy and Kelvinside. I liked both but prefered GA and thought it suited my DS more. It did have some bad press for a senoir teacher interrogating a 10 year old about drugs.

Also bear in mind that Kelvinside was a boys school until 10ish years ago and does still have some remnants of that.

The classes were smaller then GA but it didn't have smartboards in the classrooms. I also wasn't keen on the rigid subject choices for S Grade (computing compulsory).

I got the impression that it is the school that aspiring west-enders send the kids who dont get into the high school/hutchie.

If you go with state, Williamwood is the best and there are cheap houses in Stamperland in Clarkston which is the catchment.

I used to live in the catchment for Shawlands (we're now only just outside it). I lived there when the stabbings took place - I know there were issues.

Shalwands had a bad reputation for gangs. The not so new headteacher has done a lot to address it. Unfortunately, it takes a lot for such reputations to change - hence continued placing requests.

I know a lot of parents whose kids are currently there through the rugby club that ds goes to. They are extremely happy with the education their kids are getting.

A number of the kids from ds' school put in placing requests for Shawlands. I have a lot of respect for the depute at ds' school - so I will listen to her suggestion.

As I have said to my dh - I am not going to judge a school before I have actually gone to see it myself - hence us checking it out while ds is only in P6.

Otherwsie, I would be guilty of the same thing that pissed of my parents when I was at school: colleagues of my dad's who were horrified that my parents were "damaging" their children's education by sending them to state schools

For the record, the schools in question were Bearsden Primary and Bearsden Adademy and I got 8 As at O grade and 6 As at Higher the fllowing year - along with at least 6 of my friends . So much for damaging my education . Education is equally about home input and aspiration as the school environment. Ironcuially, I would argue that Bearsden Academy (at the time) was not a good school, as it only catered for the "clever" kids (like me) and bascially put the not-so-clever kids on the scpar head. Whereas the school my mum taught at was a much better school, becasue it sought to get the best out of all of the kids who went there.

Fair point that it takes a while for bad reputations to disappear. It maybe isn't as bad as it used to be but that doesn't suddenly make it a great school. I see the pupils coming and going from it and I dont like the way they dress or behave. They would be better getting rid of the uniform altogether than have girls walking around in micro-minis (no tights) and boys who look like they've been dragged through a hedge backwards. It doesn't say much for what the discipline must be like within the walls.

I wish there were still state schools like what Bearsden Academy used to be like. Now the state provides no environments for bright kids to excell.

It depends what you are looking for in a school and what your child is like. IIRC Shawlands's Higher pass rate was something like 44%. I know that's better then most other Glasgow state schools but it is nothing compared to the privates.

Of course the Higher pass rate is nothing like the Private schools - the private schools are able to select their intake

That was why I made the point about Clydebank being better than Bearsden Academy, because it added value to all its kids, rather than just putting its resources into the cleverest: all should get a chance to excel/be stretched to the best of their abilities (unlike Bearsde, which, when I was there, gave the lowest streams the most inexpereinced teachers and left them to flounder).

Ds is (already!) planning on going to going to Glasgow Uni to study Astronomy, so that is one of the things that we will be talking to them about, ie how well they support kids with high aspirations. However, the HMI report says "The school has been very successful in helping high
numbers of young people go onto university, college, training and
employment" - so that is encouraging.

Shawlands Academy is a great school.Now.
The new Headteacher has been a breath of fresh air and the school is very active in it's local community and is well regarded.

The uniforms are no different to most other state schools and in any case are not something that I judge a school on.

If I lived in Shawlands/Pollokshield I would choose it before Hutchesons.

I have actually found that the children in some private schools have a great deal less direction upon leaving school than their peers in state.

This is why I have chosen Williamwood. Nurture the entire person not just a pass rate.

prettybird- you see this is where we differ- we define 'high aspirations' very differently. I'm aware that my view is skewed by my going to a v academic private school where it was assumed that everyone would go to uni. tbh when I was a teenager I didnt know there was a choice not to go . So maybe that experience has given me ridiculously high expectations of schools and my Dc's attainment.

For me 'high aspiration' is 6 or 7 As in fifth year followed by an unconditional offer by Oxbridge. Shawlands, and every other state school in Scotland, does not provide this opportunity. If they think 'high aspiration' is a course that only requires 4 B's to get in then they are not on the same page as me. I'd be devestated if that's all my DC's got in their Highers.

All state schools have dropped their standards to the lowest common denominator and yes, this has benefitted the average/below average child it has abandoned the children at the top of the academic tree who should be aiming for lots of A's and Oxbridge/medicine etc.

Also, having visited all the privates around the city, not all of them are academically selective. But they still do much better in the tables.

bethel- why do you say that about Hutchie? I heard that it went downhill a few years ago and was getting very lax with discipline and I wasnt particularly impressed when I visited it but I still wonder why you'd say it was worse than Shawlands?

If for whatever reason, you cannot access the privates then I agree that Williamwood is the best state chioce. However I still dont know if they let their top pupils do more than 5 highers in 5th year or do specific prep for Oxbridge.

Actually I beg to differ: my aspirations (and those for my son) are (or in my case were) to go to Uni (a real Uni to do real subjects, not one of the pretendy Unis and degrees that have been created in recent years - so I too am an academic snob) and to get excellent results. I left school after 5th year with 6 x "A" at Higher (real subjects: Maths, Physics, Chemistry, English, French, Latin - the Latin I only started 6 months before the O grades 'cos I had been in NZ for 2 years). I had got 8 As for O grades, despite only getting back 6 months beforehand.

I went to St Andrews - didn't want to do an extra year to try for Oxbrdge (after having had to work extra hard to catch up after 2 years away, I was ready to move on - althgh St Nadrews did ask the school if I was ready to do so before accpeting me as it was unusual to go there from 5th year). I chose not to apply to do medicine 'cos I wasn't interested in it (altohugh my dad was a doctorand I briefly considered it just 'cos everyone around me was - but I knew that was the wrong reason) although every one of my friends at school stayed on and did a 6th year and then went to Glasgow or Cambridge to do medecine (one did Veterninary Science). I too was on the "conveyor belt" to Higher Education (not "Further") - we commented on it but didn't really fight it.

My complaint against certain schools (like Bearsden when I was there) is that it didn't have those aspirations for everyone. They didn't "add" the same value to everyone. If you weren't in the top streams by S2 (hey didn't stream in S1), you were dumped, so they could put the extra resources into the "clever" kids. That's wrong.

The reason we are visiting Shawlands is that I want to confirm that they to will have high aspirations for the kids in their care. From what I have read and those that I have talked to who have kids there, they do - but I am not going to assume.

Dh wants to confirm that they do rugby from S1, 'cos in his opinion it illustrates a school that develops the correct ethos (Interestingly, the head teacher has been trying to develop rugby as they have been losing "good" potential-but-rugby-playing pupils to Holyrood and Hutchie)

As it happens, our aspiration is for ds to go to the Sorbonne or MIT (dh likes Boston and Paris ) but at the moment ds (who is after all only 10) is insisent that he wants to go to Glasgow to study Astronomy (and possibly Physics) and play for Glasgow Warriors at the same time (in preparation for playing for Scotland). No lack of aspiration there!

... although I am still trying to work out how to adapt my parents expectations of me, which on the face of it were a simple "as long as you do your best" to something less pressurised for ds .

The problem in my case was that I knew that "my best" was very very good - so I put a tremendous amount of pressure on myself. I don't think my parents ever intended to put that amount of pressure on to me.

But that is point Shawlands now isn't what Bearsden was. AFAIK your DS would not be allowed to do all those subjects at Shawlands, thereby capping his potential. You only have to look at some of the threads on here to see how much more competitive uni entrance is now. Scottish pupils will need 6 highers to compete with all the pupils from down south doing 4 a levels.

There are schools here which only allow a max of 4 highers in 5th year, therefore completly excluding even the most able from applying for medicine/vet/dentistry/ accountancy/law/good english unis.