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My school dilemma

63 replies

mmsmum · 11/02/2011 19:26

Hi,
I've started a thread in Education, Secondary Education about my school dilemma. I would really really appreciate advice from local Mums who might have personal knowledge of the schools I'm talking about. I posted in Education to get a wider opinion but would love Glasgow Mums to help please.
Thank you :)

PS> Should I link to it? How do I do that?

OP posts:
prettybird · 17/02/2011 19:04

As I have said before, don't assume.

I had actually thought that the only subject that ds wouldn't be able to benefit from as I did was Latin - but I have just checked the Shawlands S5/S6 choices exemplar - and it includes Latin (probably because it is the Languages centre of excellence/Internation School for Glasgow.

It was unusual even back "when I were a lass" Blush to be allowed to do 6 Highers in a single year - but nowadays to do so over 2 years (S5 and S6), more than possible (although personally, I think if you are going to do a 6th year, you should be looking at Advanced Highers or more advanced study - espcially if you are planning on going to England)

Last year, 20 Fifth Year Shawlands students gained 5 Higher passes and of those, 6 achieved 5 ?A? band passes (according to the school newsletter) - so your assertion that kids wouldn't be allowed to do more than 4 is codswallop misinformed.

An article in the Evening Times from a couple of years ago, after a good HMI Inspection, makes the following points:

"Around 76% of pupils progressed to fifth and sixth year, compared with the Scottish average of 65%.

From 2007-2008 13% of pupils achieved five Highers, compared with a 6% Glasgow average and 10% across Scotland.

The number of pupils going on to university is also higher than the national average and two pupils this year have conditional offers for Cambridge."

So yes, it is highly compettive getting into any (proper) university - but not impossible, even from awful Glasgow City Council state schools like Shawlands Hmm

prettybird · 17/02/2011 20:25

This guy did 6 Highers in 5th year at Shawlands and went on to Oxford. No date, but given he was doing Advanced Highers, must have been within the last 10 years.

prettybird · 17/02/2011 22:08

Sorry darleneconnor.... it was a bad day to argue with me without facts to back you up: it was my FIL's funeral today :(

On the plus-side - I have done loads more research on Shawlands (even discovered that if ds goes there, he'll be able to go on a school ski trip in March 2013, which means that at least that year, we won't have to take him out of school to go skiing, as we have had to do until now, this year excepted), so I am now well prepared for our visit next week Grin

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 17/02/2011 23:03

A neighbour's ds and dd go to Kelvinside, and they seem very happy with the school and the education their dc are getting.

Otherwise, have you considered looking a bit further out - like Gryffe High School in Houston? Apparently it is 7th in Scotland (state schools), based on the results. Houston and the surrounding areas are nice, and you can get into Glasgow quickly too.

I've also heard good things about Bearsden Academy, though house prices are high there, I believe.

bethelbeth · 18/02/2011 02:57

It's true that a great number of the state schools do not prepare pupils for the likes of Oxbridge, nor educate them of the fact that it even exists or could be an option.

However, the thing that I like about both Shawlands and Williamwood,is that they evaluate each child independently.

There's no point in pushing every child towards an 'aspirational' education at Oxbridge. Instead they take on board what the child wants to do and their ability to deal with the pressures of academia.

In my opinion, Hutchie was worse than the top state schools because the children were wild.
They couldn't communicate on a normal level and were hysterical, given that there was so much pressure on them from the parents to perform and then again from the school itself. It is not unknown, at Hutchie, during exams for one child to burst into tears due to stress- but then because of the heightened atmosphere it would trigger a chain reaction and within 10 minutes there is 30+ teenagers crying like babies because they can't cope with the pressure.
An entirely unhealthy atmosphere.

I'd much rather risk going state and carrying on offering some educational value at home.

darleneconnor · 18/02/2011 10:40

prettybird- sorry for your loss

I've now read the shawlands website and handbook and I'll hold my hand up- it is better then I had assumed. There are some of the hallmarks of the old grammar schools which I didnt expect: swimming pool, Latin, DofE, competitive sport inc Rugby.

However, they do say that pupils are only allowed to do 5 highers. Maybe that boy had extra lessons out of school or something?

There are a few who do get 5 As each year but the year group is 200-250 (much bigger then I thought!) so that is a very small %. I wouldnt want my child to go to a school where they were the designated 'geek' and possibly a source of ridicule/bullying.

Also I'm not keen on the subject choices. There are subjects like Geography which cannot be taken to advanced Higher. French is compulsory in 1st year with an extra chioce from German, Latin or Urdu. A lot of the resources seem to go on the 600 pupils it says are bilingual. noow before you accuse me of being racist i'm going to say that I specifically chose my DS's primary and one of the reasons was its 1/3 BME pupil intake. I like living in a multicultural area. But, I dont want my DCs to miss out on resources because they are being ringfenced for facilities they cannot access.

My comment on a max of 4 highers, I said, was at other schools in the city. Yes Shawlands' pupils have had conditional offers for Cambridge but they still might not get in. If DS does end up going to Oxbridge I think he'd be better placed if he was one of several from his school and not totally alone. The way into a lot of top jobs now is networking and I just dont think shawlands offers this to the smae extent as some private schools.

bethel- that sounds horrid! It reminds me of my school (not crying, but the expectation of A's). Are there any good academic schools in Glasgow, state or private? The High School seemed full of robotic children. Should we just move to Edinburgh?

crapbarry · 18/02/2011 10:50

can I just echo the recommendations of Douglas Academy?

I went there, and haven't done too badly academically - certainly better than the 2 primary school friends who went to Glasgow Academy and the High School. (I have a Masters degree and a PhD, and am now working in academia in a job I love).

Of my 1st year of ~160 pupils, around 80 stayed on to 6th year, with about 90% of them going on to uni. We had folk off to medical school, vet school, to study law, PPE, biological sciences (I was one of them :o), physics, maths, english, languages, music, nursing - quite a variety. I'm still in touch with a lot of people from school, and we are mainly doing ok for ourselves - certainly better than the private school chums, who are still (at nearly 30) living off their parents.

This may be just 1 year from 1 state school, but you could certainly do an awful lot worse than Dougie. (Bearsden and Bolcair are also good, but I can't speak from personal experience about them).

There is also an awful lot of extra curricular activity - music, sport, debate, young enterprise, year book committee, drama groups, there was a chess club getting going whilst I was there too, and an environmental art group, which may not be around any more. The attached music school gives pupils the opportunity to learn some really interesting instruments, and have incredible experiences (I was in a recorder quintet for a while, and there were wind bands, chamber orchestra, 2 different orchestras, string quartets, choirs, etc etc)

good luck finding a school :)

bethelbeth · 18/02/2011 15:13

Darlene, it is entirely horrid and I am glad of my rubbish old high school education as at least I can look back on that time and see it as time well spent.

I would still advocate Williamwood, it's the school my Great Grandmother in law went to as well as each generation after that and all have been very successful. For a school to have a reputation spanning so many years is no mean feat.

mmsmum · 18/02/2011 18:35

Hi all, I have looked at Stamperland and really liked it, especially as it's so leafy and green and close to Williamwood, but I've just found out I have a problem getting a mortgage :( I'm seeing an independent adviser next week so fingers crossed, but if I can't get a mortgage I'll be really stuck for moving into good school catchment areas as rents are astronomical (if they exist, which they don't in Stamperland).

I love the chat about aspirations. I desperately want to give my dd a good education so she has options to do what she wants, whether that's vet school, Oxbridge or just plain old Glasgow Uni!

I remember all the trouble at Shawlands Academy but while I haven't heard anything bad about it recently, I haven't heard anything good either. I think Rosshall might be near Shawlands, that's a scary school with recents stabbings, not nice at all if your forced to go there and want to do well.

I wouldn't send dd to Hutchie either, it's far too serious and academically focused. I also don't like the attitude of the kids I've met from there.

I think I've learned lots from mumsnet! I should be looking at Williamwood, Douglas Academy, Bearsden Academy, and Mearns Castle? Is that right?

Thanks :)

OP posts:
bethelbeth · 18/02/2011 20:18

Stamperland is a lovely street, very good for the train station as well!

Fingers crossed for you, I hope it all goes well. It's not ideal, but consider looking at some of the newbuilds in the area as well, I believe some of them they had trouble selling (due to everyone looking for a house with character) but some are lovely and going for less than what was originally asked.

If it suits the budget- even better!

candlebythewindow · 19/02/2011 00:28

prettybird - i also went to bearsden academy and thought it was a great school :)

crapbarry - i spent some of 6th year at douglas doing advanced higher music so can definitely say that it is fantastic for music!

prettybird · 19/02/2011 11:23

If you did Advance Higher, you were there a loooooooong time after me Blush

It certainly served me well - just don't think it served the not-so-bright kids very well when I was there, for example, giving the ROSLA kids("Raising of the School Leaving Age" - the year that they were forced to stay on to 16 instead of leaving at 15) to the probationer teacher Hmm.... As it happens, that probationer teacher was extremely good although they wouldn't have known that and even got them to buy their own copies of "To Kill a Mocking Bird" or "Kes" later in the year. I know 'cos she was my mum Grin

mmsmum · 19/02/2011 17:33

I don't think I read page 2 last time I posted!

I know someone who lives out by Gryffe School and says the marks aren't down to the school but due to the fact that nearly all the children have private tutoring at home.

I did a course at Langside College a few (ok 10 lol) years ago and there were a few school kids doing highers there on top of their school work, maybe that's what that boy did and the school is claiming credit?

carlenconner I would recommend Glasgow Academy, sounds like it would suit you and dc. It was perfect for us because dd loves drama, music and art and they big on that as well as the academics. dd wanted to join the chemistry club and flute ensemble, I'm really sad for her because I don't think she will ever get those opportunities at a state school :(

OP posts:
mmsmum · 19/02/2011 17:35

darleneconnor, not what I typed, sorry! I was trying to remember darlene connor, was she the brunette sister in Roseanne? I liked her.

OP posts:
bethelbeth · 19/02/2011 19:44

Hi mmsmum, not a celebrated school as yet but the new Calderglen Academy in East Kilbride has fantastic drama facilities and its own recording studios, jazz band and orchestra. Very musical.

It is only a few years old, I went to one of it's rubbishy predecessors- but the school gets very good press and is led very well.

colette · 21/02/2011 22:40

prettybird - would be really interested to hear what you think after your visit. I have heard mixed reviews but it sounds as if Shawlands has made significant improvements.

Goodluck mmsmum - hope you get a mortgage offer soon.

mmsmum · 22/02/2011 14:47

Hi all, thought I would come back to update you all. We had another tour at Kelvinside and dd still doesn't like it so we have decided to kindly decline their offer of a place.

On top of that I have just heard from an adviser than I might be able to get a mortgage, but not enough to make it worth my while. Savings + tiny mortgage would still leave me short for a house £110,000 :(

So now I need to find somewhere to rent, with a dog! I am really upset that I am going to be wasting a hell of a lot of money on rent, I want to keep my money and have a home of my own and not give it to someone else!

I have never been this stressed out, I have constant knots in my stomach, my back is tense and my shoulders are permanently glued to my ears. I really want a little house of our own, with our own space, where dd can go to a lovely local school and be happy. But no, I'm going to be paying through the nose to live in someone elses house where I can't even paint dd's room how she would like it.

I was about to type that I am going to cry, but the tears are coming now :(

OP posts:
mmsmum · 22/02/2011 14:48

Sorry I don't think I was clear about what I meant by £110,000. £110,000 was the lowest priced house I had found in the areas I was looking at, and I can't afford it.

OP posts:
darleneconnor · 22/02/2011 14:55

What year is she in now, p7?
If she applies outwith the normal entrabce points she may be able to get into an out of catchment or private school. If she still wants to go to ga, could you get a tutor and reapply next year?

mmsmum · 22/02/2011 15:17

Hi Darlene, yeah, dd said she would like to try again for GA despite rector advising against it as he doesn't usually allow someone in second time round. HSOG did ask that she re-apply next year but it's GA she wants. I could apply for Williamwood or Mearns, or even Bearsden, as a placing request but I don't think she would get a place, there must be loads of kids trying to get in to those schools, but it would take the pressure off trying to find an affordable home in the area. I suppose it won't hurt to put requests in. Thanks for that.

Still feel like I'm homeless though, I just spoke to my solicitor who understands how stressed I must be, it's nice to feel someone cares, even if I pay him too lol

OP posts:
prettybird · 22/02/2011 15:35

Have to say I was extremely impressed. The aspirations that they have for their kids were just as I would hope. They are keen to ensure that kids gets good Higher results first time because that is what the Universities are really looking for. If kids stay on for 6th Year (as many do), then it is to widen their knowledge (or apply for Oxbridge) - and allows them to get unconditional offers (as one kid has just done for Medicine at St Andrews).

(BTW: the two kids who got conditional acceptances for Cambridge a couple of years ago, did go there - for whoever it was who doubted that their conditional acceptances meant that they succeeded in doing so).

The pastoral care seemd really good and they work hard to ensure a smooth transition from primary to secondary. The head of maths talked about how they work closely with the primary schools and then in the first few weeks of term to establish what level the kids have got to to ensure that they continue to be stretched and enthused (the example he gave was if a child is said to have "passed level x" - have they only just passed it and maybe still need consolidation on some elements or did they pass it a while ago and are ready for much more advanced stuff). They want to ensure that kids coninue to maintain the momentum from primary school.

The head teacher talked of importance of sport in instilling discipline and focus in the kids - that partly why she has introduced rugby to the school.

We saw an S1 drama class in action: the teacher talked about how drama is really good to help S1s get to know each other and develop their confidence.

There is a Movie Club, they have links with the Shed (they had just been making/planning a music video across there), one of the drama teachers is involved with the Glasgow (Scottish?) Youth Teatre, so they have an active drama club (they have a stage and proper lights), the new sports hall is bigger and nicer than the one at Hutchie (enormous, with a well sprung floor). They still have the original gym hall in the main school building, as well as a well stocked gym with 3 or 4 treadmills as well as cross trainers etc (donated by a business that was closing down). Plus of course, they have a swimming pool on campus.

They have a good Art Department - there were "proper" Wink life drawings up in the corridor (beautifully done, I have to say) - with a description saying that Life Drawing is a requirement for the entrance portfolio for Glasgow School of Art (a number of kids have been successful in going there).

We were also told about the Wind Ensemble (or was it Concert Band? all students get given the opportunity to learn an intrument), Astronomy Club, ski trips (S1s and S2s going next month), trip to South Africa (S3s - going in May) which is part of its twinning with a school out there. Lots of extra-curricular activities.

The other thing I was impressed by was the respect with which the teachers seemed to be held - and the attention to detail but caring attitude of the teachers who were showing us around (commenting on/complaining about a kid who was wearing a blue jacker rather than the black that they are supposed to wear). Dh commented on a clean and tidy the place was - and noticed the "natural" way that the teacher who was showing us around just picked up a piece of paper if she noticed it on the ground.

One of the teachers mentioned that a close relative of hers who is currently in 1st or 2nd year at one of the Scottish real "old" universities was pissed off that his parents had sent him/her to Mearns Castle rather than to Shawlands (for various complicated reasons not to do with education), 'cos at Uni he/she has got to know a number of Shawlands former pupils and he/she felt that Shawlands offered much more than Mearns Castle. An interesting perspective from a recent pupil! :)

They were delighted that we were looking around early and gave us plenty of time to ask questions. It was also useful because they start transition process in November, running after school "clubs" for the P7s (eg Maths, Engineering, Drama) and then have a couple of mornings at the "big" school in January - all of which is before the time that you submit the placing request forms. So if they know that your child is planning on coming to the school, they can make arrangements for them to join in these activities.

The only :( is they will probably be dropping Latin by the time ds is there as the only teacher is planning on retiring and probably won't be replaced :( But German, Spanish and Urdu is taught as well as French - all the Higher and beyond (I think they have to take a 2nd language on top of French in S1)

If a kid want to do a subject that they don't offer, they will facilitate it at one of the local colleges or another school (more applicable in the later years).

The kids all seemed really polite - and concentration and discipline in classes seemed good. We couldn't really see the upper school in operation (although we walked past classrooms of S4s and S5s) as they didn't want to disturb them 'cos they are in the depths of exam revision/consolidation but the younger kids all seemed keen and focussed.

prettybird · 22/02/2011 15:39

That was in repsonse to Collette who asked about our impressions of Shawlands Academy following our visit. It took me so long to write I didn't see the subsequent postings Blush

Sorry you're having such a stressful time mmsmum. Hope you manage to get sorted soon.

mmsmum · 22/02/2011 16:23

Hi Prettybird, you made Shawlands sound brilliant. It's a shame they are dropping Latin, Kelvinside dropped it about 5 years ago, dd would like to learn it but there isn't anywhere to learn. I like all the clubs, trips, music and drama Shawlands are doing. I'm glad your dc will be going to a school you like :)

OP posts:
prettybird · 22/02/2011 17:32

The other thing I liked was that they are re-introducing blazers becasuse I am a snob Grin

colette · 22/02/2011 17:39

thanks prettybird for all the details glad it went well.
Really sorry mmsmumSad. Last year we were in a similarish situation and now have a larger mortgage than what I would have liked but I am amazed that it all happened ok in the end. It was a long and stressful journey
Have you been to a broker ? Obviously you know your own limits re.payments etc. but it can be worth shopping around. Or renting may not be throwing money away ( I know there are not many propeties in the areas you have mentioned ) for a while if prices are likely to fall .

Hope your shoulders have dropped a bit ! think Wine and a hot bath may be needed.

Will watch this thread - should be working !