"Glasgow schools 'lousy'" according to councillor

[foreverastudent]

The front page headline of my local paper 'the Extra' has quoted East Renfrewshire councillor McCaskill as describing Glasgow schools as above in a meeting about the St Ninians catchment dispute.

Any thoughts?

I think he's probably been taken out of context.

The truth is that the schools in East Renfrewshire do consistently better than ones in Glasgow City catchment. Thus a lot of parents who lived in the Glasgow catchment that were previously able to have their children at St Ninians are right to be concerned about the changes made.

It's the children who 'make' a school though. So I'd be interested to see what changes will be made to bring the 'lousy' schools up to standard.

I think it's all wrong to send your child to a school that is not local just because of league tables, if people stuck to their local schools then each class would have a more balanced mix of children.

the full quote is "it seems to me the real solution is to deliberately sabotage our education system so we are just as mediocre as everyone else. We would have absolutely no hassle if our education system was as lousy as Glasgow's"

I dont think 'sticking to local schools' would create a 'more balanced mix of children' when some schools only serve large peripheral estates. There isn't much diversity in those communities or the schools.

Fair point.

That is a hell of a quote as well but I daresay, quite true.

I'm utterly biased as I'm in the process of moving from Glasgow to Clarkston to get the Williamwood catchment.

I don't think the schools themselves in Glasgow are that bad, it's just that some of the kids are downright scary and there's no way of controlling them.

Well they pulld down one of the best schools I have ever worked in...

Which school was that?

deathjaff- We're intending on moving to Clarkston at some point too

I agree entirely with your last para.

Giraffes- go on which one??

Ooh whereabouts are you planning on?
I was supposed to move in last year but the builders went into administration so I am trapped in Glasgow city until it's done!

The first thought in my head when I found out I was pregnant was to move to East Ren for the schools... Is that bad!!?

I almost bought a house in tamperland Stamperland a few years ago but missed it by a day because my house sale wasn't finalised . We've looked at houses all over; Clarkston, Newton Mearns, Giffnock, Busby. For primary Netherlee's supposed to be the best. The new Mearns primary looks fab but is HUGE and had that story a few months ago about the 'helicopter' parents.

I wouldn't worry too much until secondary. Glasgow has some ok/good primaries, it's just the secondaries that are dire challenged.

Yeah I'd totally agree, it's secondary that makes the difference.
Thats a shame I like stamperland- it's so handy for everything! My friend lives there and her house is lovely- it has so much character and there's so much you can do with them.
I was a bit gutted to go for a newbuild in the end but we had one on fenwick rd fall through and one in penilee that was a last minute bidding war.
I had to rack my brains about the helicopter parents but ohmygod that was insane.
Are you going to the Xmas do in Edinburgh?
Seeing as we are future neighbours I think you should ;) lol

Well, if he literally means "lousy" then he's right [scratches head in memory of repeated infestations]

...but then, most primary schools have to deal with infestations......

We are having the debate about secondary schools at the moment (ds is in P6). DH is determined that dh should go to a school that has rugby from S1 as he believes that that demonstrates an ethos of respect and discipline -which may mean going private.

As it happens, Shawlands (which is not quite our catchment but is close and a common choice from ds' primary school) is just in the porcess of starting rugby from S1 because the headmistress is pissed off at losing "good" pupils to Holyrood.

I have an ideological problem with private schooling. He says I have an unrealistic perception of state schooling becasue I wnet to a "good" state school in a snobbish "nice" area over 30 years ago (bearsden Academy) and that things are worse different now.

What I have said to dh is that we should at least visit the schools (Bella and Shawlands) before making any assumptions decisions and find out what the school "adds" to the kids.

lol sorry but this thread made me chuckle, does the school your child goes to make such a difference? surely if you want the perfect school then go private?

also people moving to areas to get into schools, i have to disagree with, as certain families that have lived in the area for generations may not get into the school because you moved there to get into that school iykwim

in saying that we were very lucky as we were just on the catchment for castlemilk primary which i was not going to send my son to, but he was ment to start st vincents in thornliebank which was a new build joining with arden primary and i was nervous as i was not brought up in glasgow and didnt want my son becoming a "ned" iykwim

but having to move into a bigger house we moved to castlemilk just before my son started school and we wanted him in a catholic school so he got into st mirrins which was voted one of the best schools about technically its in simmshill but right beside castlemilk but i wouldnt have thought an area determinded a school,

as its more the morals etc the children are brought up with, my son has been brought up politly not swearing taught not to hit etc and is a very nice little boy, isnt allowed to talk slang either, its yes and no not aye n naw and god help him if he ever calls me maw lol

but you may find a pupil going to "an amazing school" is dragged up and not very nice iykwim

god i ramble way too much

one last point...

"these amazing schools"
do people ever wonder why they are "amazing" ??? i know i certainly have with my sons school....bullying doesnt happen in his school ;)
disruptive pupils are made to sit at the head teachers office for hours upon hours even in p1

i think these amazing schools are so good because they "hide" things iykwim

i have had to fight so much with my sons school to get them to take action, to which point i done it myself, and approached the childrens parents that my son stated were bullying him, and made an effort to get them to play nicely etc

but maybe if the school were less worried about their statistics then they wouldnt have children serverly upset about going to school due to fear of bullying iykwim
ill shut up now

nikita x

Shawlands Academy is good Imho. We know the head quite well and there's plenty of extra curriculars, we have a business in shawlands and the kids are quite polite when out and about during lunch and they do a lot for the community etc.
If I could have had a house in shawlands with enough space I wouldve went there but I couldn't find anything in my budget :(

prettybird its hollyrood my son will go to unless we are in ireland by then lol

and with i went to douglas academy so snobbish too lmao

x

and girls really sorry about the overly long ranting post lol

I forgot to add that my mum always felt that the school that she taught in (Cydebank High) was a far better SCHOOL than my school Bearsden Academy, as it catered for - and "added value to" - all the kids and not just the clever ones.

Bearsden Academy only really cared about the clever kids, which was fine for me (I left 5th year with 6 Highers) but not so good if you needed extra support or were not academic :(

Does Castlemilk not have that fab headmaster that made the entire school high acheivers? ( that sounds silly but it's basically true if I'm thinking of the right place )

I don't think it's bad to move to an area because of the schools - we HAVE to move. I live slap bang in the city centre and it is completely horrific with a baby in tow.
We bought our house before dd was born but due to circumstance won't be able to move in till next year- as far as I'm concerned this is our forever house. I can't see that as being unfair to others who live in the area?

And of course you have to teach your children morals just as my parents did for me. But I don't want to live in an area (as I do now) where the young girls are over sexualised and have barbie and pussycat dolls and whatever rammed down their throats and run wild. I want to live in an area with likeminded parents and likeminded children and so it's my choice to move away. Not a bad thing IMHO.

no no i dont mean that deathjaff i mean if your moving purely for the school iykwim,

and i get what you mean about kids outside the home kinda thing, my son gets out the back as its fully enclosed and i watch him and he is in bed at 7pm school nights and once a week he gets movie night and goes to bed about 8:30pm-9pm (on the weekend)

but yet i see children about 2 out "playing" til 11pm no-one watching them etc

also the schools state kids should be in bed early...just out of interest what do you think about having a halloween disco that ends at 7:45pm which means i wont get my son to settle til about 9pm on a thursday night???

as for the headmaster question i have no idea

nikita x

pretty bird that sounds like my sons primary school tbh

and im shocked to hear clydebank would be better, my best mate in school travelled everyday to douglas academy from clydebank, always thought it was a little crazy myself lol

x

I think the Halloween party should be ok as it's a one off. Chances are he'll be very tired on Friday but that's the price he has to pay for being a party animal!

I'm a great believer in free range kids. And that would be impossible here. I want my dd to have as much freedom as is reasonably possible.
Having kids out 'playing' till 11pm is heartbreaking. It really makes my stomach turn. Poor wee souls don't stand a chance if noone cares about them enough to give them a decent routine.

I will see f I can find the headmaster thing, I met him once and he was so charismatic I wasn't surprised he had worked wonders!

It's rare in Scotland for catchments to be altered (hence the hooha over St Ninians); we don't suffer, like they seem to do in England, from the variable catchments and uncertainty that they do in England - so I don't accept Mummy03's complaint that moving for the school means that people who have lived in a particular area all their life can't get in. I do accept the point that the desire to move into a catchment can push prices up so that they are too expensive for young people to stay/move back to.

I for one, am not (currently) prepared to pay over the odds for a house in Bearsden/Milngavie/Strathblane/Jordanhill just for the school. We searched North side for two years (and this was before ds ) before deciding to look on the Southside and finding our current house (in Pollokshields) the first night out, for a fraction of what we would have paid on the North Side. (This was 11 years ago but I don't think things have got any better)

We got badly stung by a house in Jordanhill that went to closing: it was for sale for O.O. £140k, it surveyed for £160k (and the roof needed re-ddoing, estimated cost £20k ), I had an argument with dh and put in an offer (iirc) of £166k (might have been as high as £180k) and we beleive that it actually sold for £218k!

I also agree that a child is more influenced by the home ethos and morals - that is exactly the argument discussion I am having with dh. The head teacher is also a massive influence (and I had already heard good reports about the Shawlands headmistress deathjeff :)); that was one of the reasons why ds' primary school had such a good reputation (although the bitch lovely lady decided to retire after a year and I had to help recruit a new teacher. I did of course do a fabulous job )

My DS's primary school disco doesn't end until 9pm!

I see the Shawlands kids out and about too, their slutty short skirts lack of appropriate uniform does put me off.

As for Bearsden Academy I heard that it used to be like a private school but that it has slipped considerably.

I thought it was the Drumchapel head who turned the school around? Maybe it was both?

I fell in love with a cottage in pollockshields prettybird and dh wouldn't let me have it. I am still bitter!!

You had to help recruit!!? That would have been a job made in heaven for me. You handpicked your DC's headteacher basically?

I agree the home ethos is so important, too many people are relying on schools to bring up their children for them and then wonder why it all goes wrong! Discipline should not be a teachers job. They should uphold it but it is a parents job.

That's terrifying news about the house in jordanhill. I didn't even look at houses there because I had suspicions that that would be the case.
We have just been lucky that we'd saved the money pre-recession so had a good buying position. Unfortunately the same recession has bitten us on the bum via our builders and we are marooned between two places.

if the recession has done anything good at all it has put paid to some of the ridiculous house prices that were completely unrealistic

It may have been foreverastudent, it was a couple of years ago and I can't find it on google!

9pm is quite late. But he'll love it I would imagine.

Lack of uniform drives me mad too. But I have seen more schools take a uniform policy in the last 5 years than previously so at least it's moving in the right direction

Bearsden Academy has been full of scandal the last few years. What with tachers and pupils having relationships...

Best school was Sighthill. People are always shocked when I say that. The attitude of the staff was wonderful, especially the head teacher. It was a pleasure to be there.

prettybird, happy to say the support for pupils with learning difficults has improved since your exerience there. I would love a nosey around the new building!

New building does look great.

I've no idea what learning support was like in my day (which was a looooong time ago ) but Bearsden Academy in my time didn't really want to cater for the less academically able. The top streams were fine and got the best teachers - the rest just got what was left over

A good example is when my mum started teaching there (her probationer year - we both started there at the same time), she, the least experienced English teacher in the school, was given the "ROSLAs" (the Raising of the School Age kids: it was around the time the leaving age was raised for 15 to 16, so these were 15 year old kids who really didn't want to be there) and told to get on with it

To give her her due, she succeeded in getting them enthused about English and even got them to contribute to getting on the books that she didn't have enough copies of. But the school wouldn't have known that when they allocated her that class.

Deathjeff: yes, I had to help recruit the new head teacher. The old school bard lapsed (I was the only one who had put in an application to join it) so dh (who was already, and ds was only in P1, chair of the PTA) asked the headie if she wanted a school board (given that we had a good PTA with a good relationship with the school) and she said yes, so we had to go about getting a petition and volunteers for the board to be reinstated. As soon as it was (and I ended up being its Chair) she handed her resignation in . To be fair, she'd been there for over 25 years as head mistress and she did deserve her retireiment. She waited until the new Board was in place, so that we could have a say in the recruitment process - otherwise it would just have been imposed by the Education Dept. We got to decide the Short Leet and then 3 of us were on the Interview Panel.

BTW - although we are technically in West Pollokshield, we are realtively close to East Pollokshields, which made the house better value :). We moved from a flat in Shawlands 11 years ago: our biggest mistake was selling the flat as we could have afforded to keep it on. Hope you get into your house soon.