How realistic is it to try to divide our time between London and the Far East?

[wonderingwondering]

Really grateful for any thoughts. DH has been asked if he'd relocate for 2-3 years to the Far East (HK or Singapore). My children are 5 and 3. I'd be willing to do it, but on the basis that I could keep my house in the UK and return every school holiday, with DH coming back, say for two weeks, while I come back for four, and returning without DH for a week at half term, etc.

I'd like to keep contact with my current life - friends, family, the older child's school friends, even friends in my sports club. So if we were back every six weeks, I feel as though I'd maintain my UK life.

I was even thinking I could work remotely and keep my job if I could call into the office every six weeks. I'm quite nervous about becoming a FT SAHM - I work PT at the moment but I love the mix between home and work life.

But would trying to have a foot in both camps mean I wouldn't settle in our 'new' life? And is the idea completely unrealistic?

To be totally honest, I think you need to let go. I know it seems daunting to live so far away for so long (but realistically, it isnt that long), but you will be putting a lot of pressure on yourself, doing a lot of long haul, planning and travelling.

Rather than trying hard to keep up your UK life, it might be more worthwile to embrace expat life for a while. Look upon it as an adventure, a new experience, get to know new people, enjoy half term exploring your region.

When you come back, you will be full of interesting tales, rather than just being the woman with the worlds longest commute.

There is plenty you can do to keep in touch on email, facebook, have a blog, etc.

agree with 2010a. what a great opportunity! with skype and all other internet stuff to keep in touch with people it's not that far away or for very long. plus have you considered the potential cost of flying back and forth all the time?

Also, if you didnt go back and forth all the time, you could perhaps let your house?

I lived in London for 15 years, keeping in touch with friends and family in Norway, coming home once or twice a year, for a 1 or 2 week period.

To be honest, even travelling between London and my home town in the faaar north, changing flights ONCE with 2 young children was pretty stressful.

We now live in Norway, have done for two years, it was pretty simple to hook up with my old friends (that I had kept in touch with). I now keep in touch with my London friends via email, and go over twice a year to visit. (with or without kids).

Having lived abroad I can honestly say that you will not settle if you think that you are coming back every six weeks.

It sounds like a fantastic opportunity for your family and you should go and do it and embrace it.

The holidays out there will not coincide with holidays here and you will end up being resentful.

Having your house empty here is a logistical nightmare (insurance for a start, they hate empty houses that are furnished) and you should consider letting it.

Keeping in touch with friends over here is so much easier now than it was when I was in Saudi (20 years ago). Email / Skype / MSN etc. If they are good friends you wont lose them.

Go. Go and enjoy it for 2 - 3 years, come back in the summer and at Christmas!.

Thanks for all the answers already!

I suppose that it is the letting go that's hard. My real, close friends will of course still be here when I get back. It's more the acquaintances - I feel part of the community here. And I'd lose touch with that. But a few nods on the high street and knowing the shopkeeper isn't really a reason to give up a potentially great opportunity!

I'm nervous about giving up work. I have a great job, a couple of days a week. And that is not easy to replicate overseas. So the idea of being at home while DH works quite long hours is daunting.

If you let your house, where do you stay when you do come home?

Lots of questions, but comments so far are enormously helpful (end encouraging) - thank you.

The ex-pat community abroad is huge so I don't think you will be bored as a SAHM!

When you come back you will have lots of offers of staying with people desperate to see you and find out how your time abroad is.

We stayed with ILs / my parents / friends.

Hired a cottage one year and really felt as though we were on holiday then!

my friends moved to HK in Jan09, i can honestly say with facebook/email i am more in touch with them and their lives than with some of my other good friends here.

the jet lag is very hard, esp for the 3 year old so even on that basis i don't think your original plan is a good one!

my friend worked FT and is now a SAHM, but an expat life out there is very different to a SAHM mum here, she has a live in helper and a driver for a start . she does say she can get a bit bored, but is looking at business opps over there - to bring back here in a couple of years. The east is where it's at you know.

when she came home at christmas this year they had had such an interesting year, we had done, errrrr, not much really. no one over here changes, you will slot right back on your return.

Go - and embrace it! could your work give you some project/freelance stuff to do from HK? however i think you might find it is a bit of a full time job settling the family in, at least at the start. I know getting into a school was a full on campaign for my friend's DD (age 4).

Thanks again.

I could do some project work for my employer, although part of what I enjoy is the office environment and colleagues, so maybe a career break would be better. I was thinking about voluntary work in wherever we end up, as a way of using my brain.

I think you are right, if we are going to do it, I need to throw myself into it. It's just hard to throw our whole life in the air! But the children are young, so it's an easier time to do than when they are are very young babies or older and so more committed to school and friends. And I do feel excited about the opportunity.

I do have friends who have lived abroad - one found it difficult to pick up again, socially and professionally, as he went to Australia for a few years, but came back and all his friends had got married and had children, while he was still single, so their lives were different and had moved on. But I don't think that's such a worry for us - we're a family unit so pretty self-sufficient, anyway.

I have a school friend living abroad now, and we are still great friends even though I only see her once a year or so. I really encouraged her to go for it, it's more difficult to uproot myself!

I was overseas for 12 years, coming back once a year for extended summer holidays, and still managed to keep in touch with good friends - and that was even before the days when everyone had email/facebook. It would be much easier now. Obviously a few acquaintances fell by the wayside, but when you have young children you easily make new friends amongst their friends' parents. And Hong Kong is a very sociable place. You would soon get seriously fed up with flying to and from the UK with kids every few weeks.

Also, I think there are tax implications to keeping a house available for your use when you are resident abroad - one of the most attractive things about a stint in HK for most people is the low tax rate, which is a good opportunity to salt away some money for the future - but that only works if you are not resident in the UK for tax purposes. Disclaimer: I'm not a tax expert, but I have a feeling that if you still have a home in the UK which you regularly use and is not rented out, you remain UK tax resident and so have to pay tax on overseas earnings.

Thank you. I'll look in to the tax situation.

The house is the thing that bothers me most - not having a base in the UK to return to. So if we came home for Christmas, where would we stay? I don't think I could cope at my parents or in-laws for any length of time! We live just outside of London so serviced appts aren't really an option as they would be if we were more central.

I'll look into the tax situation. But having to let my house might be a deal-breaker. It is our family home, and I don't like the idea of not being able to come to it for a few days, even if that is only 2 or 3 times a year.

We could afford to keep our house - we'd have our overseas rent paid. But if we end up still being UK tax residents because of the house, that might tip the balance against going - we're not going for financial reasons, but it would be nice to have a chance to build up our reserves a bit as a result.

Actually, I just had a look through a couple of tax websites, and couldn't see any reference to the 'available home' rule. It was something that I think was an issue when I left the UK 15 years ago, and we had to fill in lots of forms to prove non-residency, but the rules may well have changed since then.

One thing that does seem to be an issue is the length of visits back to the UK - not more than 183 days a year, which is half the year so probably wouldn't be a problem or (more crucially) not more than an average of 91 days over several years, which could be a problem if you came back for a couple of extended visits a year. But if your DH stayed overseas and the income was all/mainly his, then that could still be OK. In any case, I would recommend taking some legal/tax advice before you make any major decisions!

Thanks very much! I do love mumsnet for things like this . Could post a link to the tax websites, please, if you get a chance? Don't really know where to start looking.

Nice thought but I doubt it would work. I moved to the Middle East just over 5 years ago. Two eldest DC stayed in the UK first 8 months and full boarded at their school as DC1 was due to finish there that year so made sense to keep them on til then. They then came out for 2 and 3 years before returning last year and year before to settle back into UK boarding schools for A levels and GCSEs.

During the time I've been here, I've kept my UK house and have gone home every summer for at least 2 months and some christmases/easter. I tried very hard to keep in touch with all my good friends in the UK but after 5 years those friendships are now down to occasional emails and maybe one meet up a year

I worked full time in the UK and really found it very hard at first being a SAHM, particularly as DC1 and 2 weren't with me at first. Have since had DC3 and resigned to the fact that I am now and for the forseeable future, a SAHM.

Exexpet, a bit confused about the available home thing and will have to look at that. Numerous people we know here keep homes in the UK so the wives and kids can go home for long periods and the DHs still don't pay tax?

OP, ref keeping your house, if you can you should try to do it. I know a few people who sold up or rented their houses and now when they go home for 2 months in the summer they have to stay with their family or even oworse, their in-laws. worth bearing in mind. Also, if you sell your car, the cost of hiring really adds up.
Good luck

The "available home" rule is becoming an issue again unfortunately (Treasury takings are down; barrel scraping has commenced)and this is exactly what they are looking for; non-residents who are back all the time and have kept "a life" in the UK. Keeping a house unrented is something they consider to be an indication that you are not genuinely non-resident.

What the IR have said is that the rules (eg 90 day rule etc) for non-residency are "guidance only" and that they will look at borderline cases on a case by case basis.

Re the Op's question, I agree with the other posters. Expat life only works if you commit to it. Two years is nothing- you'll barely have unpacked and it'll be time to start packing again.

Also, if you get a choice of HK or Singapore, do your research before deciding- they are quite different propositions.

Thank you (again).

I think the deal-breaker for me will be whether we can keep our house in the UK. I'd want it to stay in when I came home (agree on the staying with rellies point!), and 2 years (possibly 3, but I'm less keen on that) isn't really long enough to justify storing or shipping all our furniture, and giving up our home.

I wonder whether I could be a UK tax resident, but DH (who'd be in the UK less) could be resident outside the UK? He'd obviously be the one earning. ArcticFox, is the guidance on the HMRC website? That could be a deciding factor.

I think we'd rent a furnished apartment or house overseas, so it is much more a question of taking suitcases of clothes and the toys for the children.

We're deliberating about the car - we have quite a nice car, so we might consider shipping that out, not sure how practical or expensive that is!? And keep a smaller car here or rent or borrow a relative's car when we come home.

I think coming back as frequently as I'd envisaged is probably not workable. Perhaps 3 times a year (summer, Xmas, Easter).

Is looking more like Singapore if it is going to happen (we don't get a choice on location).

Not sure about Singapore but you probably won't be renting furnished in HK unless you want to be in a serviced apartment for 3 years, because furnished apartments/houses dont really exist. Also, dont ship the car- the humidity in both Sing and HK is not great for cars and the import tax is major. Just buy one off a departing expat when you arrive.

The guidance re houses isnt on the HMRC website although they do say they weigh it up on an "individual basis"and warn that that complying with the guidance such as the 90 day rule may not cast your status in stone - we were told about this by our tax advisors (DH's company pay big 4 firm to advise expats) and by a friend who is both an expat and an independent financial advisor. The issue would be that if you spend considerable amount of time in the Uk with the rest of the family, then the IR may consider your Dh not to be UK non-resident since he still has "substantial and permanent ties to the UK". I'd suggest if you make the move then your H ask his compay to pay for some independent tax advice for you.

This probably sounds harsh, but it sounds to me like you are anything but up for this move. Expat life can be fun, exciting and invigorating. It can also be very challenging, frustrating and sometimes lonely. I've seen enough miserable trailing spouses in Dubai literally counting down the days to know that if you are not prepared to commit to this, it's unlikely to be good for you or your family. It sounds like you're really attached to your home, your job and your friends and this can make it harder since you will probably end up compromising on housing (Sing and HK are both astronomically expensive), employment (PT is hard to find) and possibly friendships. From what you've said here, I would probably advise you against it.

I am really torn. I can see it is a great opportunity to live abroad, and would be good for DH (in terms of progression and job satisfaction - he'd probably benefit from having lived in the Far East and made contacts etc for the rest of his career).

What's holding me back is that we've worked really hard through our twenties to make our life a bit easier now we've got young children.

DH is pretty secure in his job so there's no pressure to go from that, I now work p/t in a job I absolutely love (and can't be recreated overseas), my children are settled at school and nursery, I have links in my local community, I have a local running group and I'm considering marathon training.

So I have a very full and happy life, and I feel DH and I have worked hard for that. But then I think, it boils down to not wanting to move because of a few mates that I go jogging with, and the friends my 5 year old has at school! Both of which are potentially pretty transient, and not really good reasons to give up what could be a real adventure and wonderful opportunity for us all.

I did find some new guidance published in the HMRC website (Feb 2010) that suggests it would be very hard for us to be non-resident if I do as I am suggesting. So for that reason, as well as the need to commit to it, I think it is much more all-or-nothing. So I'll make some more enquiries and think it over.

I suspect we'll end up going if the deal is right, I just need a bit of time to get my head around it. You are right, ArcticFox, I do need to be much more committed to it than I am at the moment. If I were to go with the mindset I currently have, I agree it is quite likely to be a disaster!

I second everything arcticfox said. There is no point in going with your current feelings as you are likely to be miserable. There is nothing worse (or more unhappy) than expats who can think and talk about nothing but their lives back home.

But maybe if you think about the benefits the balance might shift a little - if you are in Singapore, you will have summer all year round, the children can spend free time in swimming pools etc. Singapore is a major hub which makes it very easy to get away and explore other places - all of south-east Asia, Australia and so on. You will make friends from all over the world, which in future will give you people and places to visit for years to come.

Maybe you should start another thread asking MNers in Singapore what life is like there?

We're expats in the Middle East.

I think if you do decide to move abroad, you need to be fully committed to the idea. It is hard setting up a new life elsewhere, but the bonus is that you get to do it with a load of other expats who are also missing home and not planning to stay more than 5 years. This often means that it is easier to make good friends and build a busy life and social life, but you'll be at a disadvantage if you're only half there.

The transient nature of expat life means that I meet new people every week, and the ones who are always popping back to do 'back home' things, or spend the summer away, tend to drop off the radar and have to start over every time they come back. A woman I know has just come back after 4 months away and I am about the only person she still knows. Meanwhile my good friends and I have an 'all in this together' sort of camaraderie and have become very close in the relatively short time we've been here.

I disagree that you need to be "fully committed" especially when your husband is only taking a relatively short contract. In the future you will be coming home and it is important that you keep your ties.

We are expats in the Middle East and the vast majority of people I meet have one foot in their home country to a some extent. No one has made a permanant move.

I have a 3 & 5 year old and they (ordinarily) go to school in the ME (at the moment we are back in the UK for 8mths and I am very grateful that we didn't relinquish our life here so that I have been able to do this when the need required).

Summers are generally spent in the UK and our part of the ME totally empties during the months June - Aug so I can't imagine feeling like I was missing out if we didn't stay for the summer.

We didn't tend to go back at Easter/Christmas although kept a property so that we could as we wished.

I feel incredibly settled in the ME and don't see my tooing and froing as a hinderance. IME life is very different overseas and lives are more varied: some people split themselves straight down the middle; some have children in the UK at boarding school; sick parents that need to be visited regularly; work themselves mostly remotely but have to return periodically for courses/exams/meeting; some have relocated lock stock and barrel. The different permeatations and wide and so everyone fits in regardless of individual circumstance.

Would second what exexpat and arctic said and re-evaluate where you stand in regards to tax because you could be taxed on UK rules if you maintain such a large presence in the UK with lots of stays, etc. There has recently been a change in the law and I think night stays now count as well. Not sure, but get some independant advice before you go.

SIN and HK aren't places where you would ever feel bored, esp. not HK though you could get cabin fever in Singers and the lack of seasons can be annoying. HK much better IMO, but also more £££.

I live in the ME, too and returning to Europe is but a quick hop so that's okay, but I won't be doing that from Singers (we'll move there next year).

Had to laugh and agree with 2010aQ: 'being the woman with the worlds longest commute'. Yes, very true!

Embrace it, I'm happy to give you pointers where to go and what to do for hols. I've lived in Singapore 3 times and spent all my teenage summers in HK.

I see quite a few of us are in the ME Where is everyone else?

Thank you. You are quite right, exexpat, that we need to consider the positives: instinctively, my reaction was wow, what a great opportunity. But then I started thinking about the reality of leaving our home, friends, my work and our extended family. I suppose that is natural. But now is the right (or perhaps easiest) time - the children are young and adaptable and their education can be given anywhere. And it would be great for all of us to mix with people from all over the world - especially for the children over the next few years. I've always brought them up to be open to new ideas and experiences, and I'm actually a bit surprised at my reservations about moving overseas. The idea is always easier than the reality!

Nancydrew - that is interesting, I've friends in Dubai and I always wondered about being able to pop back from there quite frequently. And the fact it might only be for 2 years is a factor: that's not a very long time to completely up-sticks and sever ties in the UK. But Kitty is right that Singapore/HK are a bit further away. Perhaps I need to change my mind-set, accept we are leaving the UK for a period, and just go for it with a view to staying longer.

Kittyonabeam - DH is having discussions this week, but I'll take you up on your offer, thanks, if it ends up looking like Singapore is a runner. I think a bit of focus on either HK or Singapore would help, so I can start thinking about life there more clearly - where to live, schools, costs etc. Too many variables at the moment to really feel I can make a proper decision.

Both DH and I did laugh out loud at the 'world's longest commute' woman image too!