Are you living overseas and pregnant? Anyone interested in starting an international Ante-natal club?

[RubiMama]

I thought it would be fun to have a thread for those of us who are pregnant and living outside UK. As people's experience of ante natal care and birth can be so different abroad I thought it would be nice to our own MN antenatalclub. Where I am (Greece) there are no ante antal goups as such where women get together and all birth preparation is mainly on a one to one basis which I find frustrating. But there are other aspects of the care I get that I really like and in a way glad to be here rather than UK. Also I know it can be daunting giving birth for the first time in a new country where the whole system turns out to be so different from how you expected, so we could support each other and share experiences and stories.
I'm 26 weeks pg with DC2. Due at beginning of May.

Is anybody else in?

Hi frakkinnuts thanks for your comments.

Let me preface this with: I am English and have strong ties still (meet the HMRC classification for UK domiciled) and it makes me sad at the thought of my children feeling less British I'm also probably making a mountain out of a molehill Blame it on the pg hormones.

Do any of the rest of you worry how to pass on the feeling of Britishness to your children, being so far from home? I'm doing my best by eating indecent quantities of marmite and drinking litres of (decaf) tea... but British nationality would somehow seem more concrete...

The rules changed since I was born which means that I can apply to have my child registered as a Citizen by descent unless we come back to live for 3 years in the UK before child is 18. Which I hope we'll do, but we only have 7 years to register if we want to register outside the UK so if we end up not coming back... I guess then it's naturalisation.

I tried to make my message a bit shorter and now it's unintelligible I'm already first generation born outside the UK and have only a limited right to pass on my British nationality. If I go that way, my children definitely won't be able to pass on British citizenship to their children.

Naturalisation in that case won't be relevant for my child (as for me) as (s)he would already be British (like me).

Argh, I think I'm over-thinking this

I think I get you but to check - you're British by descent so you will have to apply for your child (who could naturalise if they get it at any point, it's still naturalisation as a child) and it would probably be granted because you still have strong ties to Britain ?

If you didn't have them in the UK and they dont naturalise before thry have a child they can't pass it on.

Those are both very true. But there may be more ways round it.

If you come back before child is 18 you're sorted but you can still register before they're 7, then come back before they're 18 and naturalise.

I don't think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I worry for my grandchildren as I'm 1st gen British but there's almost no way I'll give birth there so my children will be BCD and able to pass it on but my grandchildren won't unless there's naturalisation involved. Is it terrible that I'm investigating whether boarding school counts for naturalisation purposes as a child? I know 3 years at uni would...

Is there any way you can naturalise your citizenship before your child is born so you aren't BCD any more? Not sure where you live/what your situation is but if you were still at least partly based in the UK it's worth investigating.

Thanks for your sympathy, seems like we're in a similar situation. It is strangely worrying isn't it? I don't feel remotely French and the thought of my child being more French than English fills me with total sadness - and a fair bit of horror (DH isn't French either BTW we're just here for work!) Where are you based these days?

LOL about boarding school - I was wondering if my parents fancy a little house guest for, ooh, 3 years or so You might want to check yourself, but my understanding is that the whole family must be resident, although you can all be absent for 270 days per year.

This link has quite a good description of the options. And be careful - nothing I've found says that once you are BCD you can subsequently be naturalised, it's either/or as for as I can understand it.

On a lighter note - if you do go for British citizen otherwise than by descent by moving back to the UK, it's only possible "if aged 10 or over, child is of "good character"." I'm not sure I know a single 10 year old who could be described as 'good character' Isn't that the whole point of being 10?!

BCD can naturalise whenever. As long as you have right of abode (as a BCD you do) and you stay for the required period of time you can 'upgrade'. Lots of antipodeans make use of that loophole but you have to be in the UK to do so obviously! The UKBA are very helpful - they have pages and pages on the process. I think your first hurdle is getting citizenship for your child granted.

Mine will be practically forced to naturalise as an adult if I can't swing it before then! My DH is French but very anglicised and I'm born British but am not very British in many ways so any child of ours is screwed in terms of cultural identity. We technically still have a residence in Britain - bank account and I retained my vote as we're posted to the Indian Ocean at the moment.

Bonsoir de l'Hexagone! Hope you're using our tax euros wisely down there! Yeah, I'm the same as you - bank accounts, vote, driving license, cried when we won the World Cup (rugby), etc... I don't think I'm one of those expats but I do have some very English habits. I could imagine keeping British habits in Reunion would be pretty difficult, so I hope your traditions are more translatable down there.

I'm pretty sure our child is going to be totally screwed up too though if we stay here. Crazy Mum trying to instil British customs like queuing in the midst of Southern French chaos, combined with German DH who has lived in Germany even less than I've lived in the UK! Add a dose of Super Nanny on M6 tonight and we've just convinced ourselves we're going to be the worst parents ever!

Interesting what you say about the ozzies, because everything I've read says you can't become BC otherwise than by D if you are a BCD and I can't find anything about naturalisation as a BC. Not convinced I'd pass their test anyway When is St. Georges' Day? But if I understand you right, a naturalised BC has more rights of passing on their BC than a BCD

Shame I didn't know I could naturalise before I left the UK. I wouldn't have had to do the test then either!

read this!

There's no reason why a BCD wouldn't be able to naturalise. Almost anyone with ILR can naturalise (and BCD gives you right of abode) and as presumably your DC would have another nationality anyway (French at the least) they'd be treated as any other European wishing to naturalise, but they would really want to naturalise and be British - it's not a case of just retaining the citizenship by filling in some forms like the French who pass it down indefinitely!

You personally may qualify for other than by descent see here which may be worth investigating.

We must be boring everyone to death with this!

Thanks for the links. I've spent a lot of time reading up on all of this (including all the guidance on the UKBA website and the excellent BN4 leaflet), but I don't see any provisions for someone who is already a BC to be naturalised, unless I'm missing something blindingly obvious. I suppose it doesn't say you can't either...

My child would in any case have the right to German nationality and I could apply straightaway for BCD for him/her (due to my parents) but then that closes off the option of BC for his/her children (effectively your situation). The gamble is: will we go back full-time before child is 15? And we have to decide that more quickly as applying for BCD is a lot more time limited.

I think a letter to my MP would be worth it, once they've sorted themselves out

Oh bugger you're in a stickier situation than I. Doesn't Germany insist you must be dual national from birth? So you would have to register as BCD anyway.

I know a BCD can naturalise as a couple of friends have done it and when I was doing advice work in a Uni it was something BCD students often wanted to know - whether 3 years at uni would count towards it, which it does. So honestly it's not the end if the world if you have to register them as BCD and go through registration as a child or they naturalise as an adult if they want to keep that link.

I guess we'll end up doing that anyway but thanks for the advice. I know at 18 you're supposed to chose nationality as Germany doesn't allow dual nationality, but I reckon what they don't know can't hurt, right?

On a slightly more on topic note; after laughing at POG needing to be excused stirrups by the head of hospital, I started looking at possible hospitals tonight. There's only ONE in this city that will let you move around during the delivery All the others require you to be in stirrups to push No ifs & buts, you can try arguing with the obs. during the delivery if you like... And the same one is the only one which will set up and respect a birth plan Its also the only one with an epidural rate less than 80%! The most popular one has an epidural rate of 95%!! Guess which one I'm going to be trying to get into?

I thought that Germany now allows dual nationality. The only problem comes if a boy become eligible for military service in two countries.
My MIL is Finnish and said that she didn´t want to give up her Finnish passport before but that she can now have both if she wants. I think DH was eligible for three nationalities at birth but his parents stuck with just German. We´re intending that our baby should have both British and German nationalities, after all it is always easier to give one up later.

On another topic, have any of you ladies in Germany been given warnings about anything but toxoplasmosis? I asked about listeria at my appointment today and the doctor said that I shouldn´t worry about it - pate, soft cheeses and blue cheeses are all ok (as long as pasturised, but that is for toxoplasmosis). I have to say I was quite relieved about this, it makes eating a lot less of a minefield.

Germany does as long as it's established at birth. You're right that national service is something to consider because if you relinquish german nationality you can't get it back AND keep your other nationality.

I shall stop wittering now.

Hi Cardi nice to see you here I can ask my friend in Hamburg what her doc recommended if that helps. She's American so probably asking the same kinds of question.

DH is a lot more relaxed than I am over nationality so it may well have changed since he last thought about it (which was probably when he became eligible for military service). I guess I'll ask DH to check the current status.

He was in France when he turned 18 and managed to slip through the net completely, but a friend of his got called up in both France and Germany! He's not even French! That took a bit of sorting out...

smithylovesme, Cardi and Fenouille congratulations and welcome!

And hi to you smithy - a fellow Brit in America! Where are you? Sorry I didn't respond sooner - I've been away on hols with (horror) no broadband.

I'm still learning the American ropes but here are my observations:

1. I started ringing round OBGYNs as soon as I found out I was pg, as I wanted to 'interview' some to find one I liked. (Fairly common here, I believe.) It took quite a few weeks of this, going on waiting lists etc, but I'm sure that varies a lot. Apparently you can have your family doctor look after you in the early stages until you find an OBGYN. Some family doctors also do obstetrics.

1. In terms of appointment schedules, it seems pretty similar to the UK.

1. The weirdest thing for me is that the doctor you see throughout the pregnancy will deliver your baby. So midwifes don't exist where I am. That means that births are more likely to be medicalised, but shopping around for a doctor who's on the same page as you (or at least willing to be flexible) seems to help.

1. Check with your insurance company what they'll cover (in terms of doctors and procedures) Mine will cover a very expensive hospital birth but not a (cheaper) birth centre.

Good luck and let me know if I can tell you anything else.

I shouldn't be here, as I gave birth a year ago, but wanted to butt in and ask Fenouille something...

I think you said you're in the South: whereabouts are you? I am in Provence, in a town with a brilliant maternity hospital (low epidural rate, very mother-and-baby oriented rather than geared up to suit the medics, IYSWIM). If you need any help/advice, sing out.

And if you need any baby gear, I'm sorting through it to give away/sell...

Hello AuldAlliance and congratulations! And lucky you I'm in the South West and this city seems to be particularly badly served. I'm getting advice to go to hospitals 1-2 hours away from home

I do appreciate your offer for the baby gear, but I think we're too far away for it to be practical. And considering I'm having panic attacks every time we even go near Autour de Bébé it might be a little too soon anyway!

Can I take advantage of your presence to ask you about any particular brands you find particularly good for baby stuff over here? I'm thinking of the day-to-day necessities rather than the big buys (which seem to be cheaper by far in the UK). And do you use disposable or reusable nappies? If reusable, where did you find them here? Thanks, I've never paid attention to this kind of thing before.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, DS1 has chickenpox, DS2's CM is grounded at Amsterdam due to volcanic ash, and it is very fraught around here!

I haven't been using reusable nappies, but they are beginning to become available in France. Most big organic-type shops stock them, I think, or you can get them online I presume.

As for products, the one thing I really miss when I go back to the UK is liniment. Everyone uses it around here for wiping babies when changing them. It's just olive oil and chalk powder, I think, and is brilliant for their skin. Better than soap & water / wipes. Oh, and big cotton wool squares to wipe with.
Otherwise, I can't think of anything special.

You're not in Toulouse, are you, by any chance? My ILs are there, and I have a few contacts who might have helpful tips.

I hope yowie all feeling better now? What's a CM? At least he's on the right continent, even if the SNCF are on strike. DH was due to leave for Manilla tonight but I think we can safely say that he won't be going.

Thanks for the tip on liniment (and parapascher!) I don't really have a clue about English products either, but at least I recognise the brand names. I'm so unprepared for motherhood!

I am in la ville rose actually. Could you contact me directly (contact poster)?

Oh bugger I didn't see it costs. Drop me a line at fenouille.rose @ gmail.com

CM is usually short for childminder.

CM is indeed childminder. Wrote nounou first and changed it, god knows why....
Have e-mailed you, fenouille.

Indeed, I'd have understood that

But no email so far... could you check the address you used please?

Weird, it's in my outbox as having been sent. Will send it again...

My DS is now 12 weeks old, and we live in Cairo. (DH is local). Having spent way too much time at the embassy, they assured me that we would have no problems, but as I had my son here, then his children would have to be born in the UK if they're to get british passports.

My query though....when we went to register him via the consulate and make the passport application, they refused to register him as we apparently didn't have my husbands original birth certificate (he was born in Iraq but has a birth certificate issued in egypt and thats not good enough as it obviously states he was born in iraq on all his documentation!?!?!?). They still accepted the application for the passport and although my son now has his british passport stating that he is a citizen, he's still not registered...

How is this going to affect us? Can anyone offer any advice? Thanks in advance!

Hi all

Have to say had not thought much about nationality issues. Got DS1 birth cert from Embassy at birth but I dont think Spain allows dual nationalty. Will have to have better look at it all.

Went back to UK for easter hols and took advantage of getting hold of some decent maternity clothes. I still haven´´t got used shopping here yet (4 years on!)

I had my 20 week scan last week, and all seems OK, have to go back for 2nd scan at 25 weeks to check development. Apparently my heart scan showed up something that can indicate a low birth weight. Feeling fine though so not worried at moment.