Moving to the Netherlands? Any MNers there can help with questions++

[Veggiemummy]

We are possibly moving over as my DH has a possible years contract over there. Ironically we have just been there for a 2 week summer holiday. His job would be based in Amsterdam with some travel to Belgium and we are considering where we would live. I quite liked the town of Leiden but not sure of cost of rent or if it commutable to Amsterdam for DH.

We have 2 boys DS1 is 4 and attends a Montessori school here in Derby a style of education we would like him to continue and DS2 is 9 months but is unlikely to attend much more than a playgroup within the year. What sort of child care and playgroups are there in the Netherlands for under 5's and is non Dutch speaking a problem. We are planning to learn as much as we can but in a year not sure how much that will amount to.

Finally what is it like living over there, we enjoyed the time we had there and we are keen cyclists so it felt like Nirvana for us. We are both Australian but have been living in the UK for over 10 years, so are used to being expats.

Gosh Cathers that's all a bit nasty glad it's all ok now. Also good to hear you had a good experience with the healthcare, though hopefully we never have to find out for ourselves.

Hey this is probably not a question you guys would be able to answer but have you got any idea how much a not large decent sized apartment or house would cost to rent around the Leiden/Oegstgeest area?

Hey Cathers the link for the apostilled think didn't work. Does that just mean notorised or something like that? We are getting quotes from a couple of relocation companies so they will hopefully do all that but I assume we still have to front up personally to the offices to register. We are also going to get the companies to quote on how much it would cost to actually pack our house for us. Bit cheeky but if this company is going to pay why not! We still have a lot of sorting to do we have so much junk that we wanting to get rid of, and this is a perfect opportunity.

Do you know, I think they've moved it in the past few days?

You'll find the info here.

What they actually do is check the signature of the registrar against their list of signatures and then provide a stamp to confirm it is a genuine document. No idea why the Dutch need this. It seems you might be able to get away with not doing them - but we were expecting to register our first child's birth and didn't want any trouble (as it turns out they buggered it up but that's another matter).

You do need to go to the Stadhuis (Town Hall) to register. When DS2 was born (in the UK) DH had to take him along! He was about 5 weeks old and had been 5 weeks premature (and very sick) so you can imagine how impressed I was with that idea! As it turns out they only saw the car seat - DH says it could have been a doll in there!

One month is not a lot of time to sort everything!! I think you are really going to need those relocation specialists. I'd certainly get all the packing done for you - remember all your lovely things are going across the sea (probably) and you want them there in one piece. Ours all arrived fine but we did our own packing because we moved out of our house 2 months before.

DS2 is much better now. I've had lots of dealings with the health service (2 babies, 1 gallbladder op, various other minor things) and found it to be exemplary.

gosh you've delt with a lot, glad everythin is ok now. Do you have any follow up for DS2? Is that done in UK or Netherlands.

I know we've already talked a bit about health insurance but how does it work. Is there one health service provider and the insurance companies pay it when you use it? DH spoke to his new HR today and they will cover his health insurance but not ours. What is the usual cost? Is it worth shopping around or should we just pay extra to the company he is with to cover ours?

We have a lettings property manager coming Monday plus a couple of moving company assesors. Oh no I'll have to clean this house, it's a tip!

Hi Veggiemummy - the talk of drivers licenses reminded me. If you are on an Australian licence, you are supposed to swap it over for a Dutch one within 6 months. If your DH gets the 30% tax ruling, you'll both just be able to swap your licences by handing in the Australian one (which is returned to the Australian embassy, who are more than happy to post it straight back to you). From memory it is a very simple process - just another form from the town hall.... Not sure if the EU licence holders have to do this to, if you are on an UK licence.

Thanks Expat I'm actually on a UK one, it has the little EU symbol so not sure if that means I don't have to swap it?

Our health insurance is about 190 euros a month for 2 adults and one baby. I was told that kids are free with ours. No idea if that is a good price or you should shop around - ours is just through DH's work. That has covered everything medically we have needed to date. There is only one public health system and you usually don't pay anything upfront (or at all) including for antibiotics at the pharmacy. Rarely, we have been sent a bill, which you just submit to the insurance company who arrange for it to be paid. I think (but am not really sure) that there is an 'excess' of something like 150 euros per year, but someone else here might be more knowledgable on that than me.

Oh, and I don't know whether dental is covered - we still see our Aussie dentist.

We've got dental cover here so are going to get a final check up and hygienist clean before we go. My BIL is a dentist and we will have to go home next year for a wedding (or to Taiwan depending where they have it) so will have another check up then.

190 is a lot, wow I'm not sure what we pay here but I guess as it is an essential thing that's necessary to cover all the use. The free kids thing sounds good though.

Oh and expat I looked up the Australian & NZ women club and found the form so will send it to them when I come over.

To be honest - I initially thought 190 euros was a huge amount (and we were paying for top private cover in Australia). Then we had some medical issues which were sorted here. I worked out the cost of getting it all done back home and worked out we needed to be here for several years before we were really out of pocket. That was before I fell pregnant and had a baby here too. However, if you don't use the system, it does seem pretty expensive to me.

Now that I am a SAHM, I will have to look up that Australia and NZ club as well - I think someone else mentioned it on the thread (not me).

Good luck with the next month - I do second the idea of getting all your documents in order. We needed originals of everything and had to get the apostilles as well (I had DFAT in Australia do them as I think the whole concept is to say it is in fact an official Australian birth cert, for example - maybe there is something similar in the UK?)

I think 190 for two adults is normal. As I said earlier, I'm with CZ for 90.75 a month and the excess is also 150 I think (keep getting little bills... e.g., 40 euros for a panicky phonecall to doctor/ER for early-mc ).

Veggiemummy Yes, you're supposed to exchange your UK license for a Dutch one. Like I said earlier, I've been driving here 10 years and never had a problem. You can buy, tax and insure a car with a UK license...

PS Buying a car is a fecking nightmare. You cannot buy a car unless you are registered at the town hall and have proof that you are. This meant that when I found a car I liked and went along with the owner to the post office (yep, official exchange must be done at PO!) the jobsworth at the counter wouldn't accept my sofinumber/bank details/address/bills/payslip as proof of residence and so I was unable to buy the car... I did ask what would've happened if I'd wanted to buy the car and export it to another country. Blank faces.

I'm with ONVZ and it's ?90 per month. I don't know if they all do, but ONVZ provided our policy document in English. We have the basic insurance which pretty much covers what the NHS does, but a friend of mine pays top-whack and gets as much physio as she needs, plus dentistry and even 3 IVF treatments per year. The boys are on my policy (but free) so it's often worth checking out whether you want additional cover as of course your children receive that too (particularly useful for orthodontics I understand). You pay additional premiums, and the additional cover can exclude some pre-existing conditions - but the basic package can't.

We have used the health service a lot, and get billed nearly every month for random amounts! There is an excess but I think our policy has an excess for prescriptions, one for lab work etc (despite having the policy doc in English I've never looked! ).

I managed to buy a car Skihorse! Well DH did it. Second hand cars are ridiculously expensive which is probably why noone exports them...

Veggiemummy - DS2 is fine. He had Respiratory Distress Syndrome and was on a ventilator for a week, and on day 3 he had a seizure so he needs follow-up but thankfully I don't think there's anything wrong long-term. He gets follow-up here - with a lovely doctor at the local hospital who speaks very good English! She has requested his notes from the UK.

I'm with VPZ and we get free physio and even accupuncture up to a certain amount so maybe we are on a fancy plan. We also get all the free fertility treatment and various other things. We don't ever get random bills though? Just our usual monthly amount. We even send them all our bills and they sort out payment.

Oh we are def gonna need the physio DH & I are amatuer triathletes with emphasis on the amatuer. We are constantly injuring ourselves and needing a physio. We gave our old physio so much business she bought us a lovely bottle of wine for our wedding.

Hello ladies not sure if any of you are still around but need some Den Haag advice. DH is heading over on Friday to look at some places. The real estate guy thinks Den Haag would suit us due as it's good for comute, close to the beach and there a good family type places with back gardens and nice parks etc. Are there any places which are particular good in the den haag area or anywhere we should avoid?

Hi VM. The Hague is very nice - but then I've several friends who prefer Leiden.....! Is your rent being paid? If so, most expats head to Benoordenhout (quite close to the beach, lovely big park - Clingendael, nice shops, lots of expats but v expensive) or the Statenkwartier (closer to the beach, lovely houses and lotsa shops and services close by). Wassenaar is just outside The Hague - one of the most expensive places to live in Holland but lovley - lots of expats (esp from The States), great beach, nice shopping street, huge houses etc etc.
Bezuidenhout is next to Bennordenhout and a bit cheaper and Voorburg (the old part) is also nice - has a villagey feel, some good schools, close to the centre of The Hague and has a train station.
Given The Hagues big expat population - there is lots going on eg mother and toddler groups, Little Gym etc but its also quite easy to integrate into Dutch stuff too! The organisation Access has an office here set up to help expats (also good website) and the Town Hall has a specific Expat desk. One more thing - most back gardens over here are tiny - I was really shocked - but there are lots of neighbourhood playgrounds (speeltuins) and the parks are lovely. Hope that helps!

Thanks Ollie. Unfortunately our rent isn't paid, thanks for your tips they've been really helpful. We originally thought we would go to Leiden but have now started thinking Den Haag for the expat thing the commute for DH and the school options. I've also heard from others that there are loads of baby & toddler things which would be good for DS2 and for me to meet people. Also DH was told that we are more likely to get a place with even a little space in the back garden because there a few new developments that have been built aimed at families who need to be close to Rotterdam or Amsterdam but still want some room for their kids. There seem to be quite a few nice parks too. DH has a few places lined up on Friday one in particular on a street called Van Goghstraat which looks good and seems quite close to the center. We have also accepted that rent will be a big cost and raised our parameters a bit we where hoping to get so e bargain for around 1000 euro but are now looking around the 1400-1600 price range. Do you think we will get something that is ok for that price?

It's funny you say Wassener is expensive, we stayed there when we visited the Netherlands in the summer and we were talking the other day about how lovely it was and we somehow thought because it was a little outer suburb that it would be quite cheap. But now you mention it the house were quite big we would have got quite a shock if we'd looked there I guess.

Do you live in Den Haag ollie?

Rents here are horrendous - I think 1400-1600 is "normal". I'm in a pisspot town in the south and cheap here is 1000+. In fact I'm moving 20 miles away to halve my rent but saw some stuff in this town for 4000+. Nobody, but NOBODY I work with (or meet) has that kind of cash. Don't be surprised if the apartment doesn't have a bath, just a shower - that's totally normal over here - just save your cash so that when you go on holidays you can afford a really nice hotel suite.

Personally I really like The Hague - but beware a LOT of it pedestrianised which would be a total pita if you're right in the centre and your hubby wants a car. Public transport is good though, buses trams & trains. You should hear the Dutch bitch about public transport - I tend to just roll my eyes and mutter something about british rail!

There's a really super English language bookshop in the centre of the hague and there's loads going on. IMO expat ghettos are horrible places filled with the absolutely "worst" type of expat.

veggiemummy Have a look here www.funda.nl to give you an idea about how much rentals cost. It's got interactive maps to tell you where the places are too so you've got a better idea of what's going on.

Where are the Ghettos??? I don't want to be in expat hell! Do you know the name of places we should avoid. We will have a car but would rather not use except for bigger trips. DH will use public transport for work he rarely drives if he can avoid it.

Thanks for the website tip will have a look. Do you know we've been chatting to relocation companies estate agents, DH new HR people and various other people and I've gotten more help and useful information from you guys. Before we make a decision about anything now DH says 'can you ask the girls about this?'

I can't help you at all on Den Haag areas, however, just wanted to let you know to expect places to be smaller here. (Well, compared to Australia anyway). I mean smaller kitchens, living space and bedrooms. They are usually pretty nice inside but just small!

The good news for you is that with the current financial situation, rents have come down somewhat (well, in Amsterdam anyway). The place we moved out of in the Jordaan (central Amsterdam) was being advertised for 250 euros a month less than we were paying! Still not sure how far your budget will get you in Den Haag though (purely because I don't know the area). Your biggest issue will be that a lot of expats do get rental allowances and so the landlords set the rents accordingly....

I agree that funda is probably the best site, but this one might have some more too:

rotsvast.nl/en/Home/

It is just one particular RE agency though (they showed us a stack of places when we first moved to the Netherlands - although we didn't end up going with them )

Also, check to see what fees the agents are going to charge you. Some charge expats an extra months rent (just because) as well as the bond. Some just charge a couple of hundred euros as a contract fee. Bond tends to be 2-3 months.

hiya again veggie, expat is right, rotsvast is another good one - just kind of beware the specialist expat rental agencies - they're rip-off merchants - which tbh is absolutely fine if the company are paying all the costs... but when it's coming out of your own pocket you don't want to be paying 400 a month more than you should just because the advert is written in english and aimed at "expats"!

Oh and as a warning, when you sign the rental contract you will have to pay obviously 1 month deposit + 1 month rent - totally normal right? No surprised there. Good. THEN, you will get a bill for a "finder's fee" for the estate agent (makelaar) usually equal to one month's rent PLUS tax at 19%!

Thanks for that have just looked at Rotsvast, there prices do seem cheaper this may be as they are further from the centrum but we don't need to be near the centrum we just need to be near a train station and cycling distance to stuff for me to do with the boys. Oh and a tram ride or less to the beach would be good. We are fine about small we've lived in the UK for over 10 years we currently live in a little 2 up 2 down mid terrace with a teeny tiny backgarden and compared to most places we've lived over here this is big. As long as we have a bit of sunlight coming in and somewhere to throw the boys when it's sunny we're fine we don't need big.

So the agents fee thing is normal is it it's not just an expet thing? I'm a bit confused. DH's company has given us a 6000euro limit for expenses so we can spend it on whatever we want for the move, so while we can't expense rent we can expense the agents fees.

I'm pretty sure we are settled on Den Haag now I think DH has a bit of a wish that we could live in Jordaan but don't think it's gonna happen.