Moving to the Netherlands? Any MNers there can help with questions++

[Veggiemummy]

We are possibly moving over as my DH has a possible years contract over there. Ironically we have just been there for a 2 week summer holiday. His job would be based in Amsterdam with some travel to Belgium and we are considering where we would live. I quite liked the town of Leiden but not sure of cost of rent or if it commutable to Amsterdam for DH.

We have 2 boys DS1 is 4 and attends a Montessori school here in Derby a style of education we would like him to continue and DS2 is 9 months but is unlikely to attend much more than a playgroup within the year. What sort of child care and playgroups are there in the Netherlands for under 5's and is non Dutch speaking a problem. We are planning to learn as much as we can but in a year not sure how much that will amount to.

Finally what is it like living over there, we enjoyed the time we had there and we are keen cyclists so it felt like Nirvana for us. We are both Australian but have been living in the UK for over 10 years, so are used to being expats.

One more thing - if you do decide to go the international school route, check school fees can't be included in the package - I thought this was pretty standard for the expat packages (we have it in ours even though when we moved here, DS was merely a twinkle in his dad's eye)

As for staying longer, we were originally here for 18 months...

Yes there are snow trains.

Oh dear I think our families maybe waiting even we to come home. I was only planning to come to the UK for 18 months.

Oh, and the Australian and New Zealand Women's Club (based in The Hague) is a great social club. They also have a monthly mums and tots meet-up, as well as all the stuff for grown ups (What Not to Wear night this month!)

Oh that sounds good Yeahbut, will def have a look at that.

Have had a chat with DH about the Dutch school thing for DS1 and he is keen to give it a go. So will widen our school/nursery options to include these.

That's great, thanks for the info Skihorse. I am indeed live in, on one of the nicest canals in Centrum and my bosses will be paying half of my health insurance thus I want to get the best I can, and take advantage of what I hear are great medical facilities and extra stuff like a dietician, dermatologist etc.

Hi Veggiemummy

I think you've had loads of helpful advice so I'm just saying 'hello' and that I moved to NL last year with my DH. I have since had 2 boys! (I was 7 months pregnant when we arrived and they were born 15 months apart) so I know plenty about the Consultatie Bureau, GPs, hospitals etc etc...

I live closer to Utrecht so no help on that, but have not regretted moving here (DH has as he hates his job, but that's a different matter).

I joined International Women's Contact Utrecht and have made many friends through it - so much so that I am busier than I was in the UK. There's one for Amsterdam as well.

My main tip for moving is getting your documents in order. You need to 'register' at the local town hall (Stadhuis) within 7 days of arrival. For this you will need everyone's full birth certificates (not the abbreviated ones) and your marriage certificate. Also these need to be apostilled or legalised - see the link here.

You can do this now, and I'd get on with it! You'll have plenty else to do in the next few months.

Good luck!

So, I have to get my birth certificate apostilled before I can register? I was told all I needed to do, within 90 days of arrival, is turn up at the Gemeente with my passport, proof of address and proof of income in order to register and get a BSN (former Sofinummer)??? As a UK citizen I was told (by a couple of other expats here) it would be easy peasy and very little in the way of formality. Now I'm worried! I haven't registered etc yet as I wanted to make sure I am happy here. Now I need to register, get a BSN, to get a bank account and Dutch health insurance. What actually do I have to do then? What documents do I need to get apostilled? And OMG it's expensive!!!!

Sorry didn't want to confuse you!

OK we did this 18 months ago... so let's see if I can remember.

You need your Burger Service Nummer (previously known as the Sofinummer) to do anything - get health insurance, open bank a bank account etc so the quicker you get it the better. It also enters your children into the 'system' of immunisations etc. My understanding when we arrived was that we needed to register in 7 days (actually we did it at about 10 days). I cannot remember how we knew this or who told us, in Amstelveen (for example) it's 5 days.

It took us a while to complete our registration because we did not have the certificates (and yes it did cost an effing fortune), but essentially in my town they will register you with passports and proof of address but then ask you to bring the rest ASAP. I can only speak for ourselves but we required: our rental agreement, passports, and birth/marriage certificates (we had a letter from our employer too but can't remember if we needed that). We had the BSN number a week later.

Here, for example, are the requirements for Amstelveen (in English as there are a lot of expats there. And here is a list of the municipalities. for you to look up when you come!

No, you definitely need everything apostilled for the whole family.

Mananny - if you weren't going to be a permanent resident (less than 3 months) then you didn't need to register. If you have decided to become permanent then you do.

And ignore the bit about the IND - I've never bothered and I don't know anyone who has! If you need to do it at some point for any reason then you can, but no hurry.

I'll (probably) be staying 1-3 years so I had better register... my next issue is I am a live in nanny in a rented house, and the landlord is apparently not sure I can register at this address as I am not the legal tenant??? He says I can still get a SOFI number to pay taxes and that will still allow me to get health insurance, etc it is what expats who cannot register at their home address do??? All this open borders freedom of movement stuff is still complicated!!!!

You can register at that address - I believe you need a letter from your employers to say you live there with them. Not sure - ask at the Gemeente.

It took us THREE visits to register originally because we kept forgetting things! When we registered DS2 (born 2 months ago rather unexpectedly during a visit to the UK so had to be registered the same way we were) it also took 3 visits and we had everything! First visit it was closed , second they said we needed to take son with us , third it happened).

But don't worry - we got it all sorted and I was 7 months pregnant when we arrived! We had no help and no Dutch either and managed it, from a standing start! By the time DS1 was born we had GSN, bank account, health insurance etc.

I've registered here twice in the last 9 years and NEVER had an apostilled document! I lost my birth certificate years ago.

Passport + sofinummer (BSN) was all I needed. Although I am wondering if this is because we're EU and not non-EU... ?

mananny Yes, my partner got his sofinummer before he was registered or found work. You will need to phone the Belastingdienst to get an appointment. My OH had to go to Eindhoven with his passport (UK) and 5 minutes of forms later he had a sofinummer. I had a similar experience years ago in Terneuzen - I just turned up with my passport and they gave me the number sharpish - I suppose they'd rather you paid tax than made it difficult for you to do so!

Skihorse - I am from the UK! As I said, I can only go by my own experience and in the past 18 months at my town near Utrecht I have needed birth certificates and marriage certificate all apostilled in order to register here and get a BSN. I did not have my birth certificate and needed to get one of those as well! (another £30...). Have got the BSN from registering at the Gemeente.

I know the rules changed in 2007... but have no idea what the rules were before that. I think it's all bloody confusing!

I did it in 2001 and 2008, partner in 2008. Maybe it's my passive-aggressive "I don't have one of those" which makes them bend the rules! I was also told I needed to register with the "aliens police", but the first time I went there in 2000 they said "oh, you're the first European we've ever had here" and he didn't seem to know how to handle it... so I didn't bother this time. Like the police are going to kick me out of the country...

LOL! I never did the IND! When I mentioned it to other expats I just got a blank look. I think they enjoy the pain they cause. Seriously, we have never had more bureaucratic trouble than when we were dealing with the Gemeente... I, like you, came to NL to breed but felt like crying when I unexpectedly had DS2 in the UK "Oh fuck we're going to have to do all that again ".

When DH went to register the birth of DS1 it transpired they had registered us as unmarried (despite the demand for apostilled documents... including our marriage certificate) and had to start all over again. I think DH actually cried.

And you're correct - we have every right as EU citizens to be here, so can hardly demand we jump through hoops to stay.

Apparently though you get your BSN from the gemeente and no longer from the Tax Office. That would appear to be total crap though!

And don't get me started on Driving Licences... .

Apologies OP. I was trying to be helpful but have muddied the waters. Just turn up and deal with everything as it comes. That's what we did, and nothing exploded and nobody died. As I said, I was 7 months pregnant when I arrived and saw GP, midwife etc without insurance - once insurance was arranged I just provided them with the details. You have 4 months to do this.

OH was issued a BSN in Eindhoven and then 4 weeks later the Gemeente issued him a BSN - did they match? Of course not! They did however sort it out (without prompting!) and he now has only one, the one originally issued by the tax office itself.

Erm... I'm still running around 10 years later (since moving to EU) on my welsh language license which has my parent's OLD address on it. I call it my "get out of jail free card" - any time I've been stopped by the police, they unfold it (old paper one) - get totally confused by the Welsh and say "erm, OK, don't do it again" hahaha.

Again, the license should have been exchanged within 6 months of being here - but seriously, what are they going to do? Confiscate it for a month? Ooooh, make me use your terrifyingly efficient public transport system would you Dutchies?

Ok after the worlds longest game of "who else can we pass this caller on to?" I got an answer from someone at the Gemeente. In order to register and get my BSN I need my passport, birth certificate, proof of address and proof of income. Apparently. My birth certificate can be shown as is, but will need to be apostilled within 3 months of being registered. When I asked do I have to bring it in again then and show it, the woman said no of course not just have it done. I am beginning to get the distinct impression that once I have my BSN I will have nothing more to do with the Gemeente. Ever. What a furore. All i want to do is pay taxes and get my health insurance sorted. ok maybe not so much the first one. 42%.

And skihorse you made me PMSL with your comment re the Dutch public transport! It is so clean and on time... it uneases me that such efficiency can exist.

mananny That sounds familiar, the "you must get it done within 3 months" thing... obviously I put my documents away and never thought about it again. Seriously, as long as the gemeente and/or police have an address for you and you're paying tax & not avoiding it - are they really going to give a shit? They've got bigger fish to fry!

Taxes, have you applied for the 30% rule? That's where 30% of your salary is considered a tax-free bonus for the first 10 years? So you get taxed on the other 70%, which if you're a nanny may well push you under the 42% rate. Worth looking in to!

Yeh the public transport makes me howl - especially when my colleagues bitch about it. OH went home to Glasgow a couple of weeks ago and had to get the train from Edinburgh. He says it smelled of piss and was filthy from rubbish, of course it was late too! And let's not even get started on the pricing for UK trains which is dependent on the day you book your ticket and who you talk to!

I am sadly not eligible for the 30% ruling as I don't earn enough! Apparently you have to earn over 36,000Euro... I wish, is all I can say.

Finally we have a start date for DH the 2nd November so we are moving over on the 31st October Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh that's a month away we have so much to do! We have just had a lovely long weekend away in Sardinia but all the relaxed feeling has been replaced by the stress of the task ahead of us! I came on here for some reassurance and I'm faced with aapostilostally thingys, IND's, alien police and welsh drivers licenses, not to mention the horrifically efficient public transport I'll be forced to endure in a months time!! Actually you ladies gave me a good giggle.

Hello Catherss thanks for popping on, seriously we should all try to meet up, it would at least make me feel like I know some people over there. I have to admit while I have moved halfway across the world and more recently 2.5 hours from London (which may as well be another country) I am finding this move more daunting because I don't know a soul over there. Being a SAHM will make that tricky but oh well it's a challenge.

Thanks for the international women assoc suggestion Cathers, one of the other lovely ladies also told me about the Australian & new Zealand womens assoc so I will get onto those.

DH has contacted 2 relocation companies for quotes, will the help with all the registration stuff do you think. They are going to look at schools, and I think we will go for a Dutch school but maybe a Montessori one, though I think someone said the actual Dutch ones are a bit Montessori anyway?

Right I've gotta put DS2 to bed he's grumbling!

Up in the middle of the night after a feed, not able to sleep! DS2 and I have just been in hospital for 2 nights as he caught a nasty virus off DS1. Bloody scary experience but the care was excellent, we had a lovely room with its own bathroom, everyone spoke English to me, and the doctor looked a bit like Charles Dance...

I shall be delighted to welcome you to Cloggieland Veggiemummy! I don't know too much about schools as my DSs aren't of that age yet... but yes I've heard that too.

If there is anything else I can confuse help you with, let me know!

I wish we'd had a relocation company but DH's boss is notoriously tight (a well-known Dutch stereotype but unfortunately true in this case). We did manage though. Eventually.