** German Chat ** Alle sind willkommen. ** Frühling läßt sein blaues Band ...

[MmeLindt]

...
Wieder flattern durch die Lüfte
Süße, wohlbekannte Düfte
Streifen ahnungsvoll das Land
Veilchen träumen schon,
Wollen balde kommen
Horch, von fern ein leiser Harfenton!
Frühling, ja du bist's!
Dich hab ich vernommen!

*

Für Deutsche und nicht-Deutsche, Goethe-fans und Gottschalk-fans, für Herzschmerz, Heimweh und Heimatgefühle.

Alle sind willkommen.

Hi everyone, lovely sunny day in the Lake District today. Sat at the cricket club in the sun watching people gliding off the nearby hills and having a drink while the dc played in the nearby river. They got wet feet and we found them trying to dry their sneakers with the hand blow dryer in the ladies toilet!

getting very used to the idea of being here on a permenant basis.

you do all sound happy admylin. Hang onto that good feeling and soak up the sun.

Trying to enjoy the last few days and then not looking forward to all the hard work ahead. But anyway, the sooner the better. I'm not waiting 'til the end of the school year as I want them in school as soon as possible over here.

arethe dc returning with you now admylin or staying behind with their grandparents? I've forgotten how old your ds is exactly, would he be in the same school as dd?

I wouldn't worry too much about bank accounts etc, these things can all be sorted out in the end. Dh could initially just transfer to your dp's account till you are set up if need be. The biggest hassle will be moving all your stuff but you have a fair bit of experience with allthat type of thing and there will be the notice to give on the flat so there is no mad rush to do all these things fast.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about it all atm. Good luck with everything. Lolling about at the cricket club sounds nice. Sounds very English, doesn't it?

Hello everyone, Happy Easter.

I haven't been around for ages - gave up mumsnet for lent. So here I am again. Is everyone ok? Did I get that right? Is Admylin moving to UK? Do fill me in.

We are now reconsidering moving back to UK. When I went (February?) I was pretty disappointed at the area we'd looked at, and um, well, just dh also is reconsidering. But we agree if we stay, the boys def. have to move to German schools, and you lot have put me right off that.

Can we have a wee list of good things about Germany, or is that impossible?
What do I like about Germany? The more relaxed attitude to kids & the freedom to come & go, play outside etc. Not being a shopping mad culture, that sees shopping as a hobby & passtime (like in UK), being able to cycle about. Kids going to local school rather than the desperate scramble that goes on in UK, being able to drives easily to France, Switzerland, Austria, (being in Munich) rest of Europe, seems to be more relaxed - Munich officially in various poles in top 5 of best places to live based on loads of different criteria.

Think kids will be gutted. Have 1 year to really make a decision 1 way or other to be 100% (based on having time for ds1 to start secondary school in UK Sep 2010).

Am thinking of withdrawing them from IS & putting them in local school for this year, so if they really really hate it, we have the year to monitor & decide, but if they stay in IS, the situation is still false and bad for them as live miles from school, no local friends etc. DO you agree with this logic.

Am looking forward to catching up with everyone. Is gab around now she's no longer here?

Hi ernest, we've missed you ! Haven't heard from TheGabster either since she moved back. We're planning to move without h - he was quite happy about the idea of him moving into a smaller place and I admit I feel a thousand times better since we decided. I'm in Uk at the moment but going back to start the ball rolling at the end of this week.

Can you not try a different area in Uk?

I'm so pleased for you, as you've been unhappy in uk for long time. how will it work with dh & is this a semi permanent situation or does he plan on trying to get job and join you over there at some point? Where will you live? When will you do it? tell me all

Are for us if pretty limited - needs to be london cos of dh job, makes sense south of river as family that side.too close in is very expensive, further out is huge commute. when I went in feb overwhelming feeling was of disappointment.

both of us undecided now, but erring towards staying, but for me the biggest problem is education. The IS school situation isn't working, but everyone on here slates the german system so much, I'm really in a quandry

morning all!! havent been on all weekend - i normally get to this thread by clicking on threads "i'm on" but i've been so long off it that i had no ongoing threads!! must get back on mumsnet a bit more!!

admylin - happy for you you've made a decision that you're all happy with! whereabouts in the UK are you moving to? are the kids excited?

Ernest - you sound like you've got loads of decisions to make over the next year! i know i'm only new in germany but i've had no problems with dd's local school - they really couldnt have been more accomodating to her! i'm not sure about how it gets on as they get older but i'll post on the school thread as well!

we had a nice easter weekend - dd still off this week but boys have gone to KG for a few hours!! thought we'd get some nice girly time together but she's shut herself in her room to listen to music - god help me when she's a teenager - she's only 7 at the mo!!
trying to persuade her to go out on our bikes but she's having none of it!! might just force her to do it tom!!
looks like the weather is supposed to turn on thurs so i want to make the most of the good days!!

I usually stay away from threads about German schools (and I'm sure I will rue getting involved later) but if it is any consolation: I did my entire schooling in the much maligned Bavarian school system and I loved it. All my 3 siblings did well too and we were a working class family. This has not hindered anyone of us 4.
I do on the other hand worry a lot about the Scottish school system. One in six Scottish children leave school unable to read and write properly and without basic numerical skills. The Curriculum of Excellence put together by the Scottish education secretary made dp and me think about home schooling. We can't and won't home school and we can't afford to go private. The school system is the only reason why I would seriously consider leaving Scotland (to NZ or Australia more likey than Germany but that is for personal reasons). I'm under the impression that the situation isn't as bad in England. Maybe schooling is the one issue most expats are unhappy with in whatever country they are.

its funny isnt it gracelo - i went through the scottish system in a rough inner glasgow school and like any school there were rough kids but i absolutely loved school and did really well as did a lot of my peers! but that was a while ago and i've not lived in scotland for the last 10 years so cant comment on what its like now!

but i do think the 1 in 6 kids who cant read and write when they leave school are perhaps in homes where the parents arent encouraging them to do there homework or even being good parents to them (controversial!!). cant imagine i'd be happy if my kids got to 7 and didnt have some basic literacy and numeracy skills and i'm sure youre no different!

Well, we fly back in 2 days and have to try and sort everything out as soon as we can. I am half happy and half scared about what it'll be like and how I'll sort all my stuff out.

We'll be staying with my parents at first, h will go into a smaller flat and stay at work as usual. Heard from him today and he isn't having a lot of success at work so he has to put in more hours. Not making him happy but he chose his career, sorry if that sounds nasty but I've suffered along side him in relatiive silence and I just can not stand that sort of life any more.

I'm really sorry you didn't find the places you looked at in Uk to your expectations or liking. Maybe you should look again.

Alot of you put the freedom dc have in Germany on the list of good things about the place. I find dc are treated alot better in UK as compared to south Germany for sure. OK they can go off to Kindergarten aged 5 alone but wo betide they make too much noise in the shop or want to 'pay the lady' themselves. I never found people willing to let dc try things out in Germany, they would huff and puff and tut wheras here in UK they speak to dc and ask them little questions , even a simple 'are you helping your mummy do the shopping' makes dc feel part of everything. That's what I missed anyway and now my dc are 9 and 10 they can have plenty of freedom in UK going to shops and school alone is no problem.

Honestly the only really good thing about Germany is, if you are health insured, you can get great dental care and quicker health care (but not better).

admylin - i really need to disagree about people not being friendly to kids in germany - i've had 1 negative reaction to my naughty ds but in only 6 weeks being here i've had countless people come to speak to the kids when there out in the park or when we're at the shops. I said to dh that i cant walk through the park without someone wanting to stop the kids to say something nice! it maybe depends on where you live - we live fairly rural and only have small towns round about us - maybe in the big cities people are less child friendly. In the UK unless you live fairly near the school, people just dont let their kids walk to school alone until they're in top juniors and even then i used to see loads of secondary school kids getting dropped off by their parents.

i think it must be hard for you to think of positive things about germany when you're so homesick and unhappy but its not all bad here - we decided to come here having lived in the UK for a long time knowing the pros and cons of both places! hope i still feel like this in years to come!

admylin - i really need to disagree about people not being friendly to kids in germany - i've had 1 negative reaction to my naughty ds but in only 6 weeks being here i've had countless people come to speak to the kids when there out in the park or when we're at the shops. I said to dh that i cant walk through the park without someone wanting to stop the kids to say something nice! it maybe depends on where you live - we live fairly rural and only have small towns round about us - maybe in the big cities people are less child friendly. In the UK unless you live fairly near the school, people just dont let their kids walk to school alone until they're in top juniors and even then i used to see loads of secondary school kids getting dropped off by their parents.

i think it must be hard for you to think of positive things about germany when you're so homesick and unhappy but its not all bad here - we decided to come here having lived in the UK for a long time knowing the pros and cons of both places! hope i still feel like this in years to come!

admylin - i really need to disagree about people not being friendly to kids in germany - i've had 1 negative reaction to my naughty ds but in only 6 weeks being here i've had countless people come to speak to the kids when there out in the park or when we're at the shops. I said to dh that i cant walk through the park without someone wanting to stop the kids to say something nice! it maybe depends on where you live - we live fairly rural and only have small towns round about us - maybe in the big cities people are less child friendly. In the UK unless you live fairly near the school, people just dont let their kids walk to school alone until they're in top juniors and even then i used to see loads of secondary school kids getting dropped off by their parents.

i think it must be hard for you to think of positive things about germany when you're so homesick and unhappy but its not all bad here - we decided to come here having lived in the UK for a long time knowing the pros and cons of both places! hope i still feel like this in years to come!

admylin - i really need to disagree about people not being friendly to kids in germany - i've had 1 negative reaction to my naughty ds but in only 6 weeks being here i've had countless people come to speak to the kids when there out in the park or when we're at the shops. I said to dh that i cant walk through the park without someone wanting to stop the kids to say something nice! it maybe depends on where you live - we live fairly rural and only have small towns round about us - maybe in the big cities people are less child friendly. In the UK unless you live fairly near the school, people just dont let their kids walk to school alone until they're in top juniors and even then i used to see loads of secondary school kids getting dropped off by their parents.

i think it must be hard for you to think of positive things about germany when you're so homesick and unhappy but its not all bad here - we decided to come here having lived in the UK for a long time knowing the pros and cons of both places! hope i still feel like this in years to come!

admylin - i really need to disagree about people not being friendly to kids in germany - i've had 1 negative reaction to my naughty ds but in only 6 weeks being here i've had countless people come to speak to the kids when there out in the park or when we're at the shops. I said to dh that i cant walk through the park without someone wanting to stop the kids to say something nice! it maybe depends on where you live - we live fairly rural and only have small towns round about us - maybe in the big cities people are less child friendly. In the UK unless you live fairly near the school, people just dont let their kids walk to school alone until they're in top juniors and even then i used to see loads of secondary school kids getting dropped off by their parents.

i think it must be hard for you to think of positive things about germany when you're so homesick and unhappy but its not all bad here - we decided to come here having lived in the UK for a long time knowing the pros and cons of both places! hope i still feel like this in years to come!

Hi all.

You feel strongly about that eh canella, posting it 4 x! I would agree with admylin that child-friendliness is not what Germany is best at, and that is what Germans will say as well. They all love the way their kids are treated in places like Italywhere they are welcome everywhere and everyone has a kind word for them. I didn't encounter that much downright nastiness to dc tbh but I think the whole atmosphere could be nicer for dc generally.

I recall a German friend of mine who had moved back to Germany from the US where her dd had been at kiga and school and she said it was heart-breaking for her to see how unhappy her dd was in Germany and how it seemed no one spared the time to say something nice to her dd. I suppose the contrast to where she was in the deepest south must have been quite drastic.

Anyway, hold on to your happiness canella, you smile all over the thread you know. Nice to see you settling in there so well.

Ernest, so good to see you. Are you sure it is Germany you want to be that much or is it that you just don't fancy the UK? Is there nowhere else on the cards for your family or just Munchen and London?

Re the schools, I prefer not to get into it really but I would say, think very hard what you are going to do if things go wrong in the German school for all or some or even one of your dc. You need a viable plan B in case you have a very unhappy dc and a very unsympathetic school environment which I am afraid is quite a likely scenario with more than one dc.

Hi all.

You feel strongly about that eh canella, posting it 4 x! I would agree with admylin that child-friendliness is not what Germany is best at, and that is what Germans will say as well. They all love the way their kids are treated in places like Italywhere they are welcome everywhere and everyone has a kind word for them. I didn't encounter that much downright nastiness to dc (apart from in the schools you'll be glad to hear Ernest!) tbh but I think the whole atmosphere could be nicer for dc generally.

I recall a German friend of mine who had moved back to Germany from the US where her dd had been at kiga and school and she said it was heart-breaking for her to see how unhappy her dd was in Germany and how it seemed no one spared the time to say something nice to her dd. I suppose the contrast to where she was in the deepest south must have been quite drastic.

Anyway, hold on to your happiness canella, you smile all over the thread you know. Nice to see you settling in there so well.

Ernest, so good to see you. Are you sure it is Germany you want to be that much or is it that you just don't fancy the UK? Is there nowhere else on the cards for your family or just Munchen and London?

Re the schools, I prefer not to get into it really but I would say, think very hard what you are going to do if things go wrong in the German school for all or some or even one of your dc. You need a viable plan B in case you have a very unhappy dc and a very unsympathetic school environment which I am afraid is quite a likely scenario with more than one dc.

I see why you posted 4 x now, it's like the site is jammed eh canella.

hadnt logged back in til now!! no idea why its posting it x 4!!!

didnt really feel that strongly - just wanted to counteract some of the negativeness!! i'm very thankful for my nice life and just wanted to be cheesy and share it!! (feeling thankful as one of my close friends died 6 months ago leaving behind kids same age as mine so i try to appreciate the good things in life!)

its also just the same as how my dh talks about life in the UK - as if we were living in hell when actually there's pros and cons for living in both places!!

or maybe i'm just living in a really nice part of germany - people couldnt be nicer (feel like i should be apologising about that!!)

ps. sorry if it posts again x 4!!

Hi Canella, where are you from?

When I returned at Christmas to the UK I was struck by how friendly lots of people were. Dd was fussed over so much. Very noticeably different. OTOH, I was also struck by how rude and anti social lots of people were - going shopping and some teens feeling and blinding 2he's such a fing ct over and over really loudly. I was so glad I only had baby with me & not older dc. I heard a lot of really unpleasant language. sound like old woman, but I don't care. That aspect of uk I didn't like & found it all over.

Trouble is Admylin, it sounds like you are moving somewhere really lovely. If I could move to the lake district with a great school round the corner I may well jump at it. But as it is, we'd have to move to commuterable London, and it'll be dirty, built up, rough (in comparison to here) and not warm and friendly. People won't be stopping us for a chat.

In the quality of life studies, Munich is regularly in top 5, and London more like 25 - 30.

Our choice is def London or Munich. And here the dc def have much more independence & freedom than they would have in London.

dss have all learnt german, if we return to uk it would be hard to maintain. Likely is they'd lose it. dd would never learn it. The fact they're 2-Sprachig is v. important to me.

admylin, sounds like your move is going to be so brilliant for you. Have you worked out with dh practicalities like him visiting & how often? WHen is your date, have you got a fixed one? I'm so happy for you. You've been so unhappy here for so long. I'm sure it's the right move for you.

Wish I had a clearer idea of the right move for us

hi ernest - we lived in the north west of england - had moved about from liverpool to preton and ended up in wigan for a while. I had no problem living in preston or liverpool and although i miss my friends in wigan it really wasnt a nice place to bring up children - there was nothing there!

i agree about the bad language of the teenagers - not seen that here at all!

think maybe i'm living the german equivalent of admylin's lovely future in the lakes! its a lovely laid back way of life here and the schools seem good! and i agree with you ernest about the 2 languages thing - so important if you can give them that opportunity!

i wouldnt swap munich for london but it has to be a decision you make! you might know better after the dc have been a year in german schools!

sounds like a hard decision to make Ernest. As long as I have read your posts on here, I have had the impression there is nothing really drawing you towards the UK.

I don't know how all this 11+ business works but I expect you pay for an experienced tutor and get together with 1-2 other mums doing the same thing and get through it together. Thing is once your dc are in that type of school, I think you can let go and leave them to get on with it; whereas with the German system I think you need to keep on top of their learning right through. In any case that was the impression I had.

Good luck making the right choice. What does dh think about it all? He was always quite keen to get back to London when you were in Switzerland, wasn't he?

Evening All!!!!!!

Just a quickie to say hi. Can't believe it has taken me so longer to get on the internet but looks like BT have not changed whislt I have been away in any case! Still, things are going OK. Looks like its all happening here though!

Admylin have a safe trip and hope to catch up with you soon.

Ernest - oh my. So sorry you had a rotten time in blighty. Can thoroughly recommend where we are at the moment - beautiful rolling Essex countryside. Really is typical British hedgerows and farmer fields and the dog is in heaven! OK, things I miss so far to cheer you up:

• not having to worry about the number of E-number ingredients in all the food I am buying.
• cheap beer which does not give you a hangover
• the lack of choice - supermarkets are a complete overload for me at the moment (that one caught me by surprise)
• "quiet time" lunch times and in the evenings.
• litter (or rather the lack of it in Germany)
• Nothing is free here and I can't believe how much even a can of drink costs.
• public transport (but I have got a car now, first time for 8 yrs, so I should not really complain).

Negatives also include stupid boy racers with loud cars driving everywhere (well I am in Essex ladies) and everyone seems afraid to take their dogs off the lead here. Something about the dog barking at a stranger the wrong way and there being a complaint and possible prosecution under dangerous dogs act!!!!!

Will post again soon.

Huggs G

so good to hear from you Gabs. Well done getting your move sorted.