how do you decide if you'll stay 'forever' or return to UK?

[ErnestTheBavarian]

We left UK 8 years ago. I've lived in many places in UK and didn't particularly care for any of them. It was at my suggestion we leave UK, 1st to Switzerland, now in Germany.

Our current house is on a fixed lease - we have to leave in 2.5 years. Having a BIG TAL about future - ds1 also 9, so approaching secondary school age. I would like to be settled by this time.

So talking about if we stay here, or return to UK. If we stay here, dh also need to plan wrt job and actively work towrds this.

OK; We both love it here, the life style is great, in winter can go skiiing every Sunday, drive to France, Czech republic, Italy, Austria etc, Kids have freedom they just wouldn't have in UK, dh has 20 inute drive to work.

If we lived in UK, dh would almost certainly be working in London, looking at 1 hour + commute, loss of the great lifestyle... But training, education & work opportunities would be opened up to me.

There is always that feeling of being an outsider, of not fitting in, I don't know, it seems like such a huge decision.

Plus atm 2 eldest boys currently at private school, paid for (for only 2 years) by dh work. If we stayed, we would probably have to put them into German school, and we're constatntly hearing huge moans about this.

As we're quite new here, we haven't really got any friends here. DH sees now that social life is important. DOn't think we'd find it easier to make frinds in UK, DH disagrees?

It feels like such a HUGE decision. I don't know where to begin. Part of me feels like just saying OK lt's go back to UK, just so the q doesn't keep popping up. I've been away so long, 3 of my 4 children were born outside of UK, we hardly have any family & they're all over the place - Kent, Durham, Lodon & Dorset, so it's not like we've got a home town to return to.

How do you decide? Up till now we've always been quite pasive and responded to circs as they've arisen, not dh thinks we need to decide and actively work towards that. But I don't know how to make that decision.

You weigh up the pros and cons of each place and then decide

not that simple. tangiable pros far far outnumbern cons, but emotional pro is maybe more important? But is it real? As in a move to a new town, in which we also have no connection, would that fix it?

this is going to sound lame but what does your gut tell you?
we're from canada but moved to the UK 7 years ago. the thought of leaving here makes me so sad. (though it still may be a possiblity but that's another thread!!)
it's different now though because we have lots of friends and i wouldn't want to start over.
5 years ago i don't know if i would have felt the same. i didn't really know anyone and felt a bit isolated. (and that's without a language barrier)
it's a very difficult decision. maybe you need to ask yourself if you are happy. and if you would be happier over here?

i agree that making a list of pros and cons doesn;t really sum it up. there's much more to it than that.

We have been away for 18 years, nearly half my lifetime .
We have decided to return to the UK next summer(well I have, DP is non-commital but not actively against the idea).
As opposed to you I have most of my family in one place in the UK and it is a lovely city to live in. I agree with you about the training, education & work opportunities for me, there is nothing for me here and never will be.
Our DDs are 2 and 5. The 5 yo has just started last year of infant school, next year she woud start primary. It's a good time to leave.

Also that feeling of being an outsider, of not fitting in. I'm tired of being foreign, I want to be an English speaker in an english-speaking country, A Scot in Scotland...[waves flag and wipes tear from eye].
Just go, you can always leave again when the kids are older and can fend for themselves...

Hi shitemum!!

I have a list of things i don't like about where i am and things i like about the UK, the first list is 3 times longer than the second one...

Ernest, as you know, we took the decision of going back to our own country (Italy)after 8 yrs in the uk (actually dh lived in the uk for 14 yrs).
Our choice was dictated by the "heart" rather than by rationality. I find the UK much better in many ways than Italy (mostly I find it a more just society, more trustworthy institutions, etc), but we did feel lonely as a family there (incidentally we left when we were starting to feel more "at home").
Friends and family have a great relevance in our life, so def being close to them has been the main reason of our move.

Hi!!!! Glad you are happy there (purple lives where i want to live)

no, you don't want to live in falkirk!! lol

OMG Ernest, your thread could have been written by me except we are in a different country!
We have been here for 3 years now and although had previously agreed we'd go home next summer (when DS aged 15 finishes his GCSE's) the last year or so we'd agreed that we would give it another 2 years. During the extra 2 years, we'd get DS's school fees paid for A levels in the UK (or at least a significant allowance towards them) and could save a nice lump sum, make sure mortgage paid off etc. We sent DD (aged 12) back to a UK boarding school in September as we didn't want to be 'stuck' here whilst she was halfway through exams.
We've now had enough and earlier this week decided to go home next summer by which time we'd have saved enough to pay off mortgage and other bills. We could afford to keep DD in her uk boarding school and DS could go to a local state college/6th form. Sorted!
DH would try to get a job in London (like your DH he'd have the commute each day, longer hours etc but we felt it would be best for us as a family). Also, I'd be able to work again (sadly not much call for female divorce lawyers in saudi!)
However, have just found out that it appears that as not in the UK the last three years (even though we have kept our house, paid all our bills, I pay tax and my DH pays NI) we will have to pay for our DS to go to a state school! We found out last year that we'd have to pay for uni fees if not in uk for 3 years before he started, so had decided he would do his A levels for 2 years, have a gap year and earn some money then go to uni. All gone horribly wrong though now!
You will need to check out the education implications for your DC. With regards to moving to a new town, at least it will be a british town! Not an easy decision but you have to make sure you've looked into everything before you make a decision. We are gutted, we'd set our hearts on returning next year but now think we can't afford to if we have to pay for our son to go to a state school for A levels! Good luck in your decision.

i second franca - now i have kids and they have cousins of the same age and my mum and aunt and uncle are all getting on (and getting ill) I just feel like i should be there. I want my kids to grow up with extended family around them. I also think the UK has more opportunities, a very different attitude, i dont know its hard to explain...there's more variety at every level of experience in the UK

purple - whoops! Yes, i remember now you had to get the train home from Edinburgh!

The key is not to think of pros and cons as just being material things.

There is no place like home - you know how things work; you understand idiomatic speech and subtleties. It makes you feel comfortable and rooted.

If you still feel like an outsider after 7 years, then probably not much is going to change in the next 7 years. When I was expating, the wisdom for our place was that it takes three years to settle, and if you don't settle in that time, you probably would never quite make it. Yes, you could be happy, have friends, etc, but you would always have something missing.

Our last stint in the USA was 4 years. I would have been happy to stay for another year (and then presumably another year, etc.) because I wasn't unhappy. One thing I knew was that I didn't want to retire there or for that to be 'it' for the rest of my life. When we actually did return home, the sense of being home was amazing.

shitemum, just read your post which was posted whilst I was writing war and peace. Sorry for that Ernest!
Ref your kids, make sure you don't have the same issue that I have about having to pay as you'd not been in the UK for past 3 years. Hopefully its just because I'm in a non EU country or maybe its because its further/higher education.

mumoverseas - that cant possibly be right! What about immigrants - they dont have to pay for state schools! (
Not trying to start an immigrants argument btw)

I agree with purplemonkey, I think your gut feeling is inportant.
We are from the UK and living in Aus. We have been here for almost 3 years, and still feel some of the things PM describes. A little isolated, not any real friends or social life etc.

Our family and friends all live in the same town, so we def. have a home town so to speak. We were actually very unhappy for 2 years and went back to the UK for 3 months to make "the decision". The children were particularly unhappy in school etc which was what drove us....
We knew within weeks of being back in the UK that it wasn't for us. We just wanted to come "home' to Aus.
We changed the childrens school, and moved house to a different area.
We have been back here for 13 months now, and I can honestly say that I haven't thought about going back to Blighty once (well, momentarily when my mom left after being here for the birth of my 4th baby, but it soon passed )

We haven't yet reached the point where we have a new social life etc, but still want to be here and not there.
Only you can make this decision. It is as simple as what is going to make you happy.........

Not much help, am I?!

you dont get a grant if you havent been living in UK for the last 2 years, i wouldnt either persumably if i wanted to study, but primary and secondary state education is free for all surely?

I have been away for 16 years now and the question came up earlier this year when there was a job opening in Leicester.

We would have gone, but that was a reaction to the circumstances, as it turns out there was an even better job offer in Geneva so we have landed here

I don't know if you can plan towards moving home as it is very dependent on job opportunities. Could your DH steer things jobwise so that you could move when you want to?

School:
I would say that German schools could be better but it really depends on the school. Do you have freie Schulwahl in Bavaria? I think you do, so you could look at different schools and chose the best one for your and your DCs. I do think that in Germany you have to be much more active with the schooling than in other countries, you need to ask, pester, annoy and generally get on the teachers nerves to get the best out of the school system.

Friends:
That is a bit luck of the draw, I think. We had NO friends in Hannover, not one and it was a miserable miserable time of my life. We moved to Düsseldorf and had loads of friends, simply because we had young neighbours who had young children and who were not from the village. It is always easier to make friends in a Neubaugebiet, imo. Once the DCs are in school then you do tend to make friends, and don't forget with a young baby it is a bit more difficult.
I don't think that nationality makes so much of a difference.

Thanks so much for your thoughts. How has your move gone Franca? Feel good it was thr right decision?

For us, unfortunately, we don't have the pul of family or a palce to go back to.

I have 1 grandma in NE, she's mid 80's and v. forgetful. I left NE when i was 14, so don't feel any ties at all now, dh has only visited once & he wouldn't be able to work there anyway.

Fil is in Kent (dh from Kent) I moved to Kent when 14 and hated it. Dh refuses to go there and doesn't want to be close to his dad.

SIl in Wimbledon, dh refuses to consider 'London Suburbia'

My mum in Dorset, couldn'r work there.

So it feels like we've got nowhere to return to anyway, not fixed point or place.

But here there is always (will always be?) this feelig of being a foreigner. (Actually tbh, I don't feel it right now much, as we've only been here a short while, but I was strongly feeling this way when i left Switzerland in Spring)

I think on balance I'd rather stay, but just not sure.

Sorry, had to post and run, will be back later.

I just wanted to say that I don't think that this moment of your life is the right time to make this decision. You have not long moved to Germany, your youngest child is still quite young (iirc).

Could your DH work towards returning to UK without burning your bridges in Germany so that you could wait until next summer to make that final decision?

shitemum, thats exactly what we thought but seemingly not! Maybe it is just because its for A levels as he will be over 16? If thats the case, the rest of you with younger kids will be ok. We are just gutted, so want to go home. I posted a thread yesterday on the education one and two people have confirmed it is correct about having to pay and we've been looking at various websites since very late last night. One school we applied to had a question on the form about having been resident in the uk for the last 3 years. Will keep looking into it (and hoping!) but be warned, just in case it is true!

I started my post and then got distracted, and now everyone else has made far more valid points than me!!
Good luck with your decision.

Won't your employer cover the cost of fees, overseas?

Ours would.

i do know what you mean about not know ing where to go back to. if we did decide to move back to canada we wouldn't want to live where we grew up (i'd rather die tbh) and would have to try a new city (we have a shortlist)
but there's still a chance that we wouldn't settle there. each place is different. and when you don't knwo a place findnig good neighbourhoods, schools etc is difficult.
it isn't an easy decision. especially since what you as parents decide will have an effect on your children.
wow. i am SO not helping. sorry!