Neue Stifte, neues Maeppchen: new German school thread

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Am starting in positive manner as we're 7 weeks into the new school year and all 3 of mine are settled and happy.
Well, d won't be if she does have head lice and has to stay off because she loves school so much.
S1 is in the second year of secondary & still thriving. Is class prefect for the first time which was a great ego boost.
S2 is in Y4 & has been doing better in class but his test results are still lousy (unfortunate choice of phrase if we are lice-ridden) and his teacher is convinced it's the language issue. He's trying harder which is a good sign. He lost the prefect election by 1 vote to his best friend and was chuffed to bits to be his "deputy" and that so many voted for him.

Had forgotten how wonderful the "erste Klasse" is.

I know teachers are getting annoyed with all the criticism on MN so we should be sparing them over Christmas ...

However I will whisper very quietly that I think they cannot teach maths these days. Maybe the new maths is great in principle but IME it is just not getting across. I hear more dp stressed out because their kids can't get the maths rather than because of literacy or science or any other subject.

Was maths so much easier when we were at school I wonder. It was really just no big problem at all as I recall. Did get a bit lost towards the end of secondary mostly because I couldn't be bothered practising it but I seem to remember if you just did what you had to do in class, for homework, it was all straight-forward.

Has my dd struggled with it though. Even the most basic addition and subtraction was like pulling teeth

I dunno SSS, we did a lot more maths than dd has done, I think.

Should make it clear, perhaps, that my main emotion towards teachers in teh UK is guilt, that I work less hard and get paid more than they do.

quite unlike the teachers here....

I should revamp my name for the new year. SSS makes you think of Nazis and SS a bit, doesn't it? Think it will be soemthing to do with losing weight. Have bought some new frivally bits and bobs to wear over Christmas, nothing much, but almost had a nervous break-down seeing myself undressed in the changing rooms.

Oh horror above horrors.

Anyway back to schools/maths etc. I really don't know why but they could not teach the class how to tell the time. I don't know of a dp who was not pulling their hair out with it. How difficult is it though really? Actually I cannot remember having learnt to tell the time. I wonder if it wasn't one of those things we picked up by osmosis as children.

I wonder too if the curriculum is faulty when it comes to what to teach/when. I don't mean just in Germany, probably everywhere nowadays.

Just the pressure they put on kids to learn for these constant tests in Germany makes it worse I think.

I think the worst thing a school can do is break a dc's spirit and I think the system in Germany does that to a high number of kids. (Obviously not deliberately but I think the system allows for it to happen).

We had the telling the time nightmare last year with ds2.
Must admit, I was quite cynical actually - all the perfect parents, who spend hours practising the Diktats with their children, and who normally think that the system is wonderful (because their child is heading for the gymnasium) were going cap in hand to the teacher, begging her to postpone the Probe....because THEIR child hadnt understood the time.

you have got 3 Ss, so I dont think of the SS, btw! Maybe you should just add another one and have 4, just to settle any doubts.

Oh sh*t, have got big problem with ds1, currently in the 4th class and under HUGE homework pressure.

He is a bright, intelligent, funny, inventive and studious boy. However, since he came to Germany, he's never really got on top of things. One problem has been succeeded by another (including problems with ex h), and I now get the impression that every time ds looks at an Arbeitsblatt, he is investing it with all the problems in his life. Recently he said that he was going to give up, that he wished he had never been born, and other similar stuff.
He writes a sentence of 6 words, that has 5 mistakes in it. Regularly.

Recently, I went to see his teacher, and I discovered, that she thinks he is stupid. I was a little puzzled by this, becuase whatever his worries, he is clearly NOT stupid.
However, yesterday I saw him in a setting with German people, and I realised that this is what his teacher is seeing every day. We went to get fitted for ski boots, and ds hardly said anything, or showed any reactions at all. He just seemed to withdraw completely into himself, and gave the impression of being either deaf, or very dull. I could see that the man who was helping us, was puzzled, because this was simply not normal behaviour.

If I talk to his teacher, she will just ship him off to the school psychiatrist (easy solution), that way lies diagnoses of Syndromes and Complexes, medication, forced visits to psychs, etc. The problem is htat the "help" offered is so heavy that I dont want to risk it, therefore its not actually very helpful.(you are not allowed to refuse it; if a psych gives their opinion, they are a doctor, so you will have the JA on your back if you don't agree with the diagnosis, or the treatment. And the treatment can include medication, stays in psychiatric hospitals and other heavy stuff). So, I dont want to start down that route.

I think part of the problem has been the integration into the german school going so horribly wrong.
He already has nachhilfe, which helps with part of his homework.
Am really at a loss what to do next.

Nighbynight, I don't know how you cope. It's one thing after the other isn't it? Hope he's settled back into things after the holiday.

My dd behaves the way you described the fitting for ski boots situation sometimes too. She says she wants to speak and react but nothing happens, she can't get a word out even though she wants to. It's often mistaken for bad behaviour but it's more like selective mutism although I won't even try and get her diagnosed for that over here a sthey haven't even heard of it.

Ernest, if you can, try to keep your ds back a year. It won't do him any good, infact it'll probably do more harm. I got dd put in school a year ahead as she was bored in Kindergarten but thinking back I should have kept her home and tried to do a year of homeschooling instead. Couldn't you do that with him? Tell them you're returning to UK anyway so as long as he isn't schulpflichtig you don't have to send him to Kindergarten even. You could be going through the basic alphabet, writing the letters, abit of number work getting him ready for UK schooling. And don't worry, they catch up so quickly. I 've seen a little girl go into her age group coming direct from China with absoloutly no English and she managed fine, she went into year 3.

popping in for advice from German school specialists - wwyd?

Next year - undecided when exactly, probably easter 2010, we will move to UK. Ds3 will be at end of Year 1, due to Start Year 2 Sep 2010.

DS3 in Kindergarten. At the start of year Erzieherin told me as ds3 is Nov born, we could decide if he starts school September 2009 (1 year KG) or Spet 2010 (2 years KG). We opted for 2 years, so this year is mainly play, next year is Vorschulklass.

This morning she comes to me and says they've changed the law & that he has got to start school in september 2009. He's already missed half of the Vorschulklass, those kids are already mates. It means he'd have to change KG class now, change to school in September, then change schools again to UK following easter. Plus, he's so teeny, he's the size of a 3 year old. I'm sure he'll get bullied in school about it.

There is a plus point to the move. In the UK, I think September 2010 he'll be in Year 2, so he'll be starting UK school towards the end on Year 1 with never having any formal education.

So, I have to speak to head and take poor sod to doctor who will declare him 'Schulreif' (or not). Undecided if I should accept the move or challenge it and have him declared 'Unreif'.

Start German school in Spetember having missed half of Vorschulklass, but prepare him better for UK school, or minimise the changes & disruption & keep him as he is?

WHat do you German knwoldgeables people think?
WWYD?

Can you imagine keeping him at home and getting him ready for school in UK? You just need to get him familiar with the alphabet and numbers maybe up to 20. I wouldn't send him to school here, it'll just confuse him if he goes to German school.

IME Vorschule at KG didn't achieve much They copied some numbers and letters but I don't think really they did a fat lot of anything. Just normal kiga with a bit of coping down numbers and letters.

If he were to start school Sept would it be the international school? If so , yes I would send him there, why not? Should think it would be a much less gentle start (social terms) than a standard German school and he would make a start on literacy. Not sure I understood how old he is exactly but I would say if he knows the alphabet song and you were to start writing the numbers to 10, the letters in small case - one number, one letter a week. It should be enough. Show him how to write his name by practising it playfully once a day for a bit.

Don't think you need to do much. If he would be going into the German school system, I would explain that you are moving and it would confuse him and I think you should be able to get out of it if you present that in clear terms - maybe backed up with some written proof that you are leaving.

oops argh meant to say the international school would I expect be a MORE gentle start and I think it would totally mess him up to spend a few months learning to read German and then moving to the UK and having to switch to English phonemes when he has not yet mastered reading in German.

Hi ZZZen

I thought I read once that ernest wasthinking about German school for ds3. Then I would try to keep him back a year but if teh international school can offer him a place it might be a good idea. How do they work - do they have real reception classes and such like same as back home or a different system?

He has just turned 5. It would be into the German school, not IS. It just pisses me off that in September when he started thy said he could 2 years Kg ( 1 'play', 1 Vorschul, and in their opninion, this was best for him, as it would give him chance to improve his German), now I know the 'law' ain't their fault, but moving the goal posts at this stage and saying he has to start school in Spetember after all annoys me. He's made friends in this group and is happy there. He'll be forced to move to a group where they've already made friends.

That's a really good point & the flip side to my thoughts ZZZen. I had thought going to the german school at least would have the advantage of pushing his German along more, but actually, you're right & it would probably lead to confusion if he starts getting formally taught to read and write in german and then after just a few months switches to English. Obv will wait to see what dh has to say, but am prepared to fight.

(Unfortunaelty have nothing to prove the move, other than my stress levels and graying hair)

Glad I asked.

Of course, will be able to do some stuff at home with him. Just have to check out what English kids should've learnt by end of Year 1.

they start earlier and have a playful first year, depends on school (British international, more American international etc) so would be quite nice for ds maybe. Depends too whether she has to pay the fees or whether the company will pay them.

I would say 1 year at German school would make sense. At the end of that time he would be a fluent reader, starting to write and so on but I am not sure about starting Sept and leaving in Easter.

Hmmm actually come to think of it. Dd started learning to read in Sept at school (talk about slow and useless way of going about it at school) and I did heaps. By December she was reading very fluently but I read with her maybe 2-3 times a day in short bursts to get her fluent. And from January I started teaching her to read in English which rocketed off so might work out ok starting Sept, leaving Easter. It would be just a bit short of a full German school year.

how good is his German Ernest?

Gah, you've changed your mind and confused me!

Anyway, if you don't want him to go you need to get the schulreif thing sorted. We had a test at the Gesundheitsamt with dd and actually she failed but they still let us put her in school early so maybe a doctor's letter would be better.

I know, I'm such an idiot ernest. First I was thinking, how idiotic if you'd have to change system, language and school after just a few months but then when I stopped to think about it , Irealised Easter is not so far away from completing a full school year (June).

Sorry

well, he started kg in September with a bit, can speak quite well now, but nowhere near fluent. Keen to learn tho - he speaks to me on way home in German, whereas ds1 & 2 never did/do, but big word order problems, says 'warum' instead of 'weil', I'd say he's bright & made a lot of progress.

I reackon the doc would declare him 'Schulreif', but I also think I've got a strong argument against. Have to see doc in next few days regardless, which annoys me, like he's not being proded and poked by enough doctors as it is, so I need to be clear what I want/ think, in order to fight my corner as necessary. I guess I can see positives (and drawbacks) with both senarios, which makes it harder to decide.

ok then I wouldn't do it. Another year at kiga would make him a fluent speaker. ANd in the afternoons you could gently prepare him for English school. Wouldn't do much, just 10 minutes.

The difference with dd was she was at least as fluent in German as she was in English so the language was not a problem at all.#

For your ds at teh moment I would try to get out of it.

Have you seen the school in question? I just keep thinking you're ine Bavaria and they aren't especialyl foreigner friendly in terms of schooling - especially heard the horrid things Nigbynight has had to endure. It could be a good thing for him to go to the local school but it could also put him of school for life. Really check the place out before you decide.

school is literally opposite KG. it is 2 buildings, 1 of which is being completely renovated, so under scaffholding etc, so will essentially be a brand new building come September.

I met 1 english woman here whose son is at the school & she says she's happy with it/ he's happy there, but she did say Head T was horrible & made her ds re do year 1 and was adamant his German was crap (even tho born in Germany & in Krippe since 6 months, so in her opinion fluent). My ds no where near fluent. Doing really well, but not fluent.

Ok, think waying back to keeping him in KG.

Must dash to hospital now, check in later.

ops what's Nigbynight had to endure (envisaging terrible things).

If it's that bad, and they force it, I'll have to consider putting him in IS & paying for the Aug - Easter ourselves (ouch)

That sounds like some of the things I've heard too. They seem to put all foreign dc in one corner and keep them back as much as possible. Thank goodness they aren't like that all over Germany but Bavaria seems to be especially bad.

Hi ernest. I think I'd probably keep your ds in KG another year until you move back to the UK. It's what you'd decided to do anyway (before they changed the rules) and I think you should be able to get the doctor to agree with you.

If I could change anything about all the moves we went through with dc, one thing would be to minimise the number of changes of KG/school they had to go through.

I've gone and lost a blardy cd for ds's English lesson. In the back of the work book there is a cd and the dc have to listen to what is being said and write it down or tick boxes, whatever. Anyway, I've lost the cd (was in our cd player and no one knows where it is now) which means ds can't complete the homework.

This is the teacher who once sent a letter about ds having missing materials and homework when we knew nothing about it if any of you remember. Soooo, in a way, she has it in for ds already. Should I send a note in with him to say I've lost it (or we've lost it) and apologize and generally suck up to her or just leave it? The note would be in English as I don't feel up to writing in it in 'perfect' German.

I'd definitely just send a note in English and be done with it. These things happen.

BTW, admylin, I read your post about the teacher sending home a note about missing homework. That's actually standard practice for many teachers - if the child has missing homework three times, a note will be sent home for the parent to sign. We've had one now and then and I just sign it and send it back without comment. Usually it's homework that the teacher hasn't explained clearly or that none of the other kids did either.