Have had enough!

[Stormyday34]

Right, the winter is here and I’m miserable again. I have lived in the UK almost my entire life and have despised the cold as long as I can remember. I try everything – big coats, long winter walks in the forest and afternoons in the pub, make a thing of Christmas to break it up a bit. Nothing works and the truth is I find the cold gets to me more and more every year. Based in the south east too, so not even the coldest part of the country.

To cut a long story short, we are now in a position where we could move abroad. I can work from anywhere and DH just needs to be within reach of a decent size airport. I speak French, Italian and Spanish to a reasonable standard and I’m confident I could get fluent in any one of them quite quickly. Two kids are primary school age and happy in their large London primary.

Here’s a big question, where on earth could we go? We’d like to stay in Europe if possible we just want better weather!

Two major considerations.

1. Would you need visas? If so, how would you acquire them?

1. Your children would find it hard to leave their friends and familiar surroundings, particularly if they had to cope with schooling in a language they don't speak. They might eventually settle, but even then the first couple of years would be difficult and quite possibly miserable.

Failed edit to try to fix formatting.

We all have EU citizenship so that’s not an issue.

Totally take the point about the kids, that’s my biggest worry to be honest….

DH think that instead we should buy a holiday home abroad and just spend the school holidays there instead.

Holiday home sounds a good option.

It is true that a family is as happy as its happiest member - if you finish up with 2 children with disrupted schooling and having to also adjust to a new culture you could have two rather unhappy family members to contend with.

Also, whilst your OH could manage being near an airport, the stress of constant travel should not be underestimated - he will not be around to cope with school runs and all the rest and it will all fall on you.

Sorry, the airport thing is a bit of a misnomer. He doesn’t travel from the airport he works at one! So his availability to help with kids would be the same as now

Interesting that you’re all voicing the same worries I have about the children. If it was just the two of us, I think I’d go tomorrow but disrupting the kids is really making me hesitate.

I wouldn't move the kids while they are happy. It would be a massive change for them.
Can you plan trips in all the holidays so you have somewhere hot to look forward to?

I'm biased, having lived here for 18 years, but Portugal is a wonderful place to live and you'd pick up the language quickly given your other languages.

I'd say make the move. It will be a great adventure for you all and your children will settle in, make new friends and pick up the language quicker than you.

If you don't go now when will you?

Id go, in your position. My advice is help your DC learn the language of the country you’re moving to, as I have horrid memories of being unable to understand a word of what the teachers and the pupils were saying when I was moved abroad at primary age. Mind you a few months in and I had got pretty fluent

You could try the holiday home first and see how it goes with a view to possibly moving later.

Your kids will be absolutely fine. There is a lot of research on this and it is generally the trailing spouse who suffers in a move.

Children start a new school and quickly integrate, learn a new language, and make new friends. For them and their future histories, it’ll be an adventure, the time we moved countries and for about four weeks we felt rough / unhappy but then they settled in.

Judging by a couple of your responses above, your DH isn’t thrilled with the idea. But it’s not a bad idea having a holiday home somewhere. However, it’s really not the same as living somewhere is it?!

I would’ve thought one of your languages should guide the choice. Personally, I could most see myself living in France. I do love Italy and Spain. But with France, you can drive back on the ferry. There is a familiarity with the countryside. But as long as you’re around the Loire or a bit further south, you’ll get much better weather. And the housing stock is so cheap. Much cheaper than Italy. I think the Italians, contrary to their outgoing personalities, can actually be quite closed. And deeply conservative and judgemental. So it can be harder to integrate there, particularly if you’re in somewhere like Florence

Yes but don’t underestimate the effects of having a miserable mum on the dc!

Children observe how we negotiate life and its challenges and how we value and look after ourselves and go on to use that as a template for themselves.

And how you interact with them will be affected by your own personal happiness.

It might be difficult initially but children are adaptable and yours are only in primary school. If you are going to move, the sooner the better for the dc in terms of their linguistic education. It will help having a multi-lingual mother! And bilingualism has positive effects on brain development.

If you all have EU citizenship, then I’d say go for it op!

Your kids will be fine!
We relocated to EU during the withdrawal agreement period.
Kids, 3, 6 and 10. Yes it wasn’t the easiest but we treated it (and told the kids to treat it as) an adventure. Which it was. They now all have EU citizenship. Are bilingual and happy. Would do it all again!

Just a lighthearted note, if you watch any of the holiday threads looking for a warm sunny holiday mid November to mid March in Europe, the answers are always the Canaries or the Caribbean! I suppose what I'm trying to say is that warm weather is not guaranteed in mainland Spain, Italy, or France in Winter, so I'd really think about that. Storms and floods are becoming very nasty and more prevalent too.

If it were me, I'd plan to use my money on fabulous holidays either before or after Christmas (or even around Christmas itself), for a minimum two weeks over the worst of the Winter darkness and cold here.

(That's what I do, so I am biased!)

Central France is probably colder than here, I lived in Tunisia, cold in the winter. Yes sunny with some warmth at noon but our house had a marble floor, heating was the air conditioners, turned to hot. I prefer here.
Are the DCs 5 or 15? makes a big difference.
Dubai?

Stop being selfish. Wait until the children are through their one and only childhood before pulling the rug from under them for a bit of good weather. Go on a few winter holidays for God's sake!

I lived abroad as a child, moved schools a lot. I was fine and happy.

Location is really tricky as anywhere with a mild winter could be unbearably hot in the summer.

@Stormyday34 but the children are only primary school age.

If you don't take the decision soon, you may find it more difficult in the long term.

Honestly some of these responses make me laugh. Kids move about all the time! They adapt and thrive and learn from different experiences and cultures. You are not selfish in thinking about making a better life for yourself and the whole family by moving.

SE England is expensive and competition for good schools seems insane, if the threads on here are anything to go by.

I am biased as my parents moved me abroad when I was about 12 but I personally wouldn't do that to the kids, I moved back to the UK when I was 18 and had to start again

Thanks all. A real mixed bag of responses and a lot of food for thought!

France is actually the one I feel I know the least well! I’ve only really spent time in Paris, I don’t know the coastal bits really at all.

To the person who said Dubai, not our thing at all.

Might start by researching international schools and go from there.

Twelve is a bit late if you want to learn the local language. It’s possible for sure but you use a different part of the brain for language acquisition after the age of eight which means you learn in a different way. It’s better overall for the synapse development which helps with strategic thinking to learn a new language as early as possible.

All the “kids will be fine” dismissiveness is chilling.
My parents moved when I my brother and I were at primary school. We emphatically weren’t fine.
Its left a lifetime of issues based around my need to try to fit in, try to blend in. My brother has his own issues rooted in insecurity.

I often think about the what-ifs of my life if I’d been allowed to stay where I was perfectly happy.

I hate the winter, I have EU citizenship too. No way would I move children that are happy and thriving just for a bit of sun. Book a holiday to the Canaries every Christmas, and another in February if you need.

I wouldn’t want to leave the UK to avoid a couple of months of cold, but I would encourage you to think about the year-round weather of anywhere you consider. The cold can be avoided and mitigated here (it’s not that cold!), but we were in the south of France this summer and at 40 degrees, it was hideous and meant we couldn’t do everything we’d hoped to. The children didn’t play in the garden all week as the heat made it impossible. 2 of our group got heat stroke and we spent 1-4pm inside every day to avoid the hottest part of the day. So look at the year round climate - I’d rather have a cold wet winter and a summer where we can be outside and active.

Are you perimenopausal yet?During my later 40s and early 50s I found summer weather pretty unbearable even in the welsh borders. It would have been brutal in Spain (outdoors, at any rate)

I don't have advice re moving or not, but for coping with uk winters I do recommend:

Getting out into daylight every day, near the start of the day if possible

Being as fit and active as your schedule/budget allow. Strength training (which youll thank yourself for in old age, take it from one who omitted to start soon enough - though I adore it now I've begun) will build muscle mass which helps as it is "warm" tissue - unlike fat which though useful, is just a passive insulator.

Base layers and leggings - silk if you have the budget so it doesn't stick, and can just fit under normal clothes. Wooy socks with actual wool. Shoes/boots with chunky soles to insulate your feet from the cold ground.

Anyway good luck with the decision making, not easy I know!