Have had enough!

[Stormyday34]

Right, the winter is here and I’m miserable again. I have lived in the UK almost my entire life and have despised the cold as long as I can remember. I try everything – big coats, long winter walks in the forest and afternoons in the pub, make a thing of Christmas to break it up a bit. Nothing works and the truth is I find the cold gets to me more and more every year. Based in the south east too, so not even the coldest part of the country.

To cut a long story short, we are now in a position where we could move abroad. I can work from anywhere and DH just needs to be within reach of a decent size airport. I speak French, Italian and Spanish to a reasonable standard and I’m confident I could get fluent in any one of them quite quickly. Two kids are primary school age and happy in their large London primary.

Here’s a big question, where on earth could we go? We’d like to stay in Europe if possible we just want better weather!

I agree with this. We moved when I was eigth, only because my DM had to be with her new man. The move was 400km away, I had to leave all my relatives and school friends behind. I missed all of them so much and for the longest time I played out imaginary scenarios how we’d suddenly move back and surprise everyone.

I did eventually settle and made new friends, my DM no doubt would say it was all fine, “children are so adaptable” 🙄 blah blah. I did adapt but the move also left me with a lifelong feeling of not belonging.

When I had my own DC, I was adamant that once they start their schooling, we won’t unroot them. We have moved houses locally but their primary and secondary school years have been uninterrupted.

I did learn the language, it was tough but I was fluent and even drempt in that language. That wasn't the problem tbh, I hated being a foreigner, being away from the rest of my family, resent the fact that I didn't have the opportunities I would have had if I had stayed in the UK (would have gone to college much sooner) I appreciate that is just my experience and there were others factors that made things worse for me but personally I would not put my own kids through that

"Chilling" is a bit melodramatic. I'm sorry you felt moving house in your childhood adversely affected you but the plain fact is that many millions of children move house and absolutely thrive!

If OP was saying she had not choice but to move, people would be falling over themselves to reassure her that her children would cope.

Sure, but the fact is, the OP is the only one out of a family of four who wants to move, and it’s not because she thinks the family as a whole will have a better life, it’s because she doesn’t like UK winters, while, on the other hand, she hasn’t identified anywhere that will have winters she can cope with but not be unbearably hot in summer.

I think it’s unfair to qualify it as dismissiveness. No one who has been through it says that living abroad or being the outsider as a child is easy. But even if it is testing in parts, it can bring huge benefits later on. Being inside one’s comfort zone all of the time isn’t necessarily a recipe for a happy life either!

the OP is the only one out of a family of four who wants to move

Primary school children don't have the knowledge and understanding to have a preference. I remember at aged 8 being desperate for my parents to buy a particular house because one of the bedrooms had bunkbeds - the coolest thing ever - not understanding that you didn't buy houses with the furniture in situ.

Im just north of the dordogne. Ive literally only this week stopped being bitten by any number of bugs, when I say stopped it is down in the last 3 days to just 3 or 4 a day. Last week I had so many I was having to take antihistamines just to try and nod off at night due to the intense scratching. A frost can't come quick enough!

With every advantage comes disadvantages.

If you’re going to go, do it now whilst your DCs are still at primary school.

And in your shoes I absolutely would leave. I don’t know much about life in either Portugal, Spain or France other than from holidays but sounds like language and finances wouldn’t be an issue so go for it.

I don’t find European summers “unbearably hot” so anywhere in southern Europe would be fine.

I was hoping to get some ideas on this thread of people who have made this sort of move. Anyone?

Language and finances aren’t an issue. My main worry is schooling.

I would go in a shot. We moved to Spain a few years ago and really wish we had done it when the children were young. They have such a great quality of life here (as do we!). Be careful of the regions , Catalonia, Valencia etc speak Catalan mainly rather than Spanish so that would be another language to learn. There are plenty of international schools of you are worried about schooling , however as long as they speak the language schooling is good here

Thank you for this. Any tips you can share would be gratefully received!

I have just come back from a trip to North Italy.

The weather is as bad there as it is here in the UK.

France will be cold too.

I think that South Italy, parts of Spain, Greece, and Malta are probably the only places in Europe that are hot at this time of year.

I did this (pre kids, my kids were born in France).

I wouldn't want to bring up kids in the French school system (mine were home ed, but that's no longer a realistic option in France). But the weather and lifestyle is incomparably better if you choose the right part of the country (some parts are no better than the UK!).

I love Italy and will be living there soon (hopefully). But again I wouldn't be too sure about doing it with kids unless you are near a very good international school, which will restrict the places you can live in. Fine if you are happy to live in a city, not so much if you fancy rural.

Spain I have lived in too, there are quite a few international schools there. I don't like it quite as much as I like France and Italy, but that's probably just me. Do some research on the tax treatment on your primary residence if you decide to move abroad, at least in some parts of the country (Catalonia?) I think there may be issues with paying capital gains even on your main home.

Could you afford a long term rental for a year while keeping your UK property? It will give you a sense of what it would be like to have a holiday home and whether that would do it for you, but also let you get a sense of what actually living in an area for a more extended period would be like.

Do bear in mind the risk of forest fires and droughts, they are very real in the Mediterranean climate areas. Easy to dismiss when you aren't living there, a lot more worrying when you are.

Southern France is beautiful at this time of year, October to mid December was my favourite season there.

uprooting everyone just because you dont like the cold is a bit selfish.

If everyone else is happy (especially the kids) i would stay put, it gets pretty chilly in europe too during winter.

Thats nice! Strange as southern france is at the same level as northern italy. And tge weather in northern italy is bad at this time of year

France here.

i wouldn’t recommend the French education system if your kids are used to the UK, and that goes double if either of them have any special needs. If you can afford the fees international schools are different, but you have to be prepared for how mobile the population tends to be. if you want to live rurally you’ll be restricted to local schools, which is fine-ish for primary but most Brits find secondary hard going.

i work in an international school, and tbh it’s really hit or miss whether it works for kids. Some thrive and others do not. Language-wise they should be okay, but it takes a while.

remember that getting home fees for university in the UK is based on residence not nationality - I know it will seem far away now but international fees are no joke.

if you’ve got enough money to contemplate a move and international school fees, why not just go on holiday more?

Your last paragraph is a fair challenge. Maybe that’s the answer!

The uk is just so drab and grey and cold and everyone is so negative. Italy is the obvious choice as we are Italian citizens and I spent a lot of time with family there as a child. My family are in southern Italy but not sure there’s much in the way of international schools

Weather is not just about latitude. Northern Italy is very influenced by the Alps, when you get away from them and into Provence the weather is very different.

Even in Tuscany you can get very different weather as you move up the Apennines vs in the plains. The plains are wine and olive oil country, up the mountains you get chestnuts and mushrooms. Sometimes in the same postcode!