Considering moving to France/Geneva for DH's job

[CatmumTTC]

So DH has finally got a job offer for his dream job in Geneva. I've always said if he ever gets it we'll move because it is an adventure etc. but it was always a slim possibility.

Trouble is we are pretty settled in the UK and have been TTC for a while and about to start fertility treatment (which is what I usually use Mumsnet for, hence the username!). We also have a few other things that have tied us down, house and pets, good friends. My job in the UK is pretty good but couldn't do it there, and would not be entitled to a work visa unless I could find a job there that would sponsor me, which is unlikely. I could live there with DH on his visa but not work. We are both UK citizens.

Contract is only for two years and then we'd need to make a decision about moving back to the UK or not, depending on what other job options open up.

I'm considering keeping my job and UK tax residency and visiting DH for part of the year. My job is remote and I could move to my parents which is closer to an airport in the UK that does cheap flights to Geneva whilst making sure I spend at least 183 days out of the year in the UK. Then we could go between these locations and still keep our cat (who is elderly so moving her would be pretty hard). That way we can still continue fertility treatment in the UK. However might get harder to travel if I actually do get pregnant so I'd probably need to make the move eventually.

Alternatively, we both move straight away and I become a lady of leisure in a foreign city whilst TTC, and possibly have a baby over there. But taking a pretty big career break that could limit my options for the future. And we'd be living on one salary (a pretty good salary mind). Geneva is lovely, and close to my outdoorsy hobbies so wouldn't be too much of a hardship! But I know being a new mum can be lonely and my french is pretty poor so that's a concern.

Guess I'm just looking for some thoughts on these ideas. Things I might need to consider. Like paying taxes etc. Anyone moved to the French suburbs just outside Geneva and got any advice? Are we crazy to do this at this stage in our lives?

I can't really advise in the decision to stay or go as this is for you and your DH to work through. What I would advise, is to be together - whichever you choose. And take the cat.

Good luck OP.

My friend may have to quit her job next week as she can't find anywhere to live and has to move out of her temporary accommodation. Apparently you can't look for a reveal until you arrive. (Or so she says)

I'm in Zürich so no idea about being a Frontalier, but I would recommend filling out a budget sheet to see how far the salary would go. There are examples online or try englishforum.ch. Eg health insurance is just the insurance, you have to pay up to a 2.5k excess if you go for a cheap rate and have health issues or an accident (except for during pregnancy, then it is free).

The rent doesn't include utilities and the very expensive TV licence! You need to furnish a flat right down to the light fittings and it is expensive to move if you don't like the place.

Also it's expensive being an expat - hard to find good deals if you don't have the language and the locals expect you to be wealthy!

If you could get a 40k part time job I think finances would be much less tight.

Good luck!

Why is it impossible for you to gain citizenship? It's 10 years by naturalisation.

We (well, he), did look into it. The rules changed shortly before we arrived. Broadly speaking, we’re on diplomatic visas (as I believe the OP would be too), so the time we spend here working « doesn’t count » towards citizenship/naturalisation etc. We’re also from an awkward non-eu country which doesn’t win us any points, so changing jobs for the permit is tough (tough as in bordering on impossible). Although a friend who is from the UK tried and failed to stay with the same visa/work situation as us.

Even with everything lined up, it is masses of paperwork, you need a high level of language… and it’s not something I want for my life. You don’t HAVE to live in Switzerland, as I keep telling my husband.

I’ve been really down on CH in this thread - there are obviously a lot of good points about living here, and it is objectively a nice place to live. But it’s not home, can never and will never be, and jeeeeeeze it’s a lot of sacrifices for someone else’s career - my own career, relationships with friends and family and a chunk of my mental health. Access to ski fields isn’t a fair trade off in my opinion.

Makes sense. I didn't realise the rules with diplomatic visas are so different. I mean, you pay no tax, so I guess the trade-off is no citizenship. I suppose PR is also difficult to get or not enough for you, presumably because you'll lose it if you leave?

I know many expat families and they're always very clear on where home is (not always where they live at any given moment). Especially as they tend to move frequently. It's a different mindset from the average person.

The OP doesn't need to think about this now, it's a 2 year contract and they don't even have kids yet but personally I'd never stay in a country more than 3 years if I couldn't settle permanently.

Another thing people don't realise about work visas is your total dependency on the job. Most places give you very little time to find a new one once you lose it. As a result you tend to put up with a lot more than you normally would. Again not relevant to the 2 year contract but something to consider.

@macedoniann yes settling there long term is not on the cards, more looking at it as an interesting place to be for a few years max. We are mountaineers and like to travel so the location is very appealing.

@MrsClausMaybe yes it's an international citizenship visa so no tax. I appreciate what you are saying about it not being home but I left my home town at 18 and never looked back, have never stayed anywhere more than four years, my parents were the same so guess I'm used to moving. I think it's different in Aus/NZ to UK, people seem to stay closer to home for longer and have the same friends from school in their adult life down under, so I can see your connection to home would be stronger. Sorry you're so fed up with CH!

Interesting thread. Op seems already set on it, just seeking validation.

Bear in mind you may not find climbing to be as accessible or affordable as you hope, especially with a baby in the mix.

Despite everything I would 100% go for it. Geneva is clean, safe, beautiful, excellent healthcare, center of Europe so you can go
wherever you want in a couple of hours. I’m never leaving (we’ve bought a house here as we love it so much)

What a fantastic opportunity. I'd take it like a shot

@Oblomov23 yes I think I had an initial wobble when it looked like it was actually going to happen, and started to think about what I might lose, hence posting. However, think I just needed to talk it out on mumsnet! Starting to get quite excited about the idea now I've told more people and everyone is being so positive!

Your idea of spending some time there and keeping your job sounds good.

I wouldn’t give up my job and damage my personal earning ability to facilitate DH’s job. Too much personal risk. If you have DC and a man who prioritises his job there are enough hurdles for you workwise and money wise to be adding a career break to be a ‘trailling spouse’.

It’s a fantastic opportunity for DH: not for you, unless you can retain your job or get a good one there which sounds difficult.

@Loopytiles since the original post I've found out I have the right to earn there so exploring options to do consultancy work and still earn my own money, or perhaps find a role there. DH is keen for me to work as he knows I'll go a bit loopy without it. I think I will stay in the UK for a few months with my current job though, make sure DH actually happy before making the leap.

Financial dependence on a man and giving up your career just as it's about to take off. Think long and hard. Maybe read a few threads on here where the woman did this and it seemed fine at first but then as the years went by....

I would go. It is a beautiful part of the world to live in and I think it is really important to make the most of every opportunity when you are young. His two year post might lead to something more permanent and bringing up a child in that environment is definitely preferable to what is on offer in the UK just now!

That’s good you can get the right to work. Would still not move without a good job to go to.

Wouldn’t do consultancy unless you can work up a good business plan for it and have evidence of good prospects for work and earnings at least as good as your current employer/local options.

with your current employer what is your maternity package like?

Would also look into the laws there on whether, should you have DC there, you would be able to leave to return to the UK if your H objected. Eg in the event of divorce.

I have been a trailing spouse for decades, and the way some posters talk one would think you are moving to Burundi.
It is Geneva and France, healthcare and neonatal care will be way superior to UK, since you will be followed by an OB/Gyn and not a midwife. DD was born in Switzerland.
Yes it is expensive , but salaries are high and quality of life is high too. You are 4 hours from the Italian Liguria, or a bit more for the French Côte d'Azur, you can skiing in Winter, and if you don't like skiing, go water skiing in Summer, it is fun.
You have one life, you are young, go with your husband. In my experience, it is a lot easier to try for a baby if you live in the same country.
You will experience a new way of eating, at least in France, Switzerland is not famous for that part. The gorgeous markets, patisseries, the fashion, ....

Hopefully you will find work easily, and if not, you will have a great time especially if pregnant or with a baby. You have all your life to settle.

Sorry posted in wrong place

€8000 a month is not huge money in Geneva. About 10 years ago there was a referendum for a minimum monthly wage of 4000 Swiss Francs (1 SF is pretty much €1). Lidl put up posters urging a Yes vote because they were already paying 4000 CHF per month for a 40-hour week. So your husband's new job pays what a couple of supermarket workers were making nearly a decade ago.

I've been a trailing spouse too and it involved bringing out of a "first world" country. In some ways it's actually easier to move to somewhere VERY different because you have far fewer expectations!

I have lived in Europe as a "trailing spouse" and prefer somewhere more foreign.

So Geneva is definitely not a challenging post in many ways, but that doesn't mean it's an easy place to be a trailing spouse either.

Seems OP can work there though, which potentially changes the game considerably.

But that's before tax. OP's husband will be making 8k a month after tax. That's equivalent to over 100k before tax in Geneva.

I just looked it up, Aldi minimum wage full time is 60k, which is about 43k net in Geneva.80k Euro after tax is below median net income for 2 people. It is not a salary that will pay for skiing every weekend and european city breaks. But if OP can find a job it isn't a problem.

In France a long term rental (not a holiday rental) can't refuse a pet.