Heading back to UK: anyone pondering it?

[thefoggiest]

Anyone here toying with the idea of moving back to the UK after years away? I keep hearing doom and gloom stories from people back home, but... Well, there's a reason they're still there, isn't there!

@PolkaDotShoes that’s really not representative of the whole of the UK though is it? Might be your experience but let’s not forget that for everyone struggling on low pay/ increased costs there are just as many with plenty of disposable income. I lived abroad in a vibrant magnet pulling country for UK citizens and I was considerably less well off than I am here.
Problem with the UK is the arseholes who keep voting in the Tories. That’s where the problem lies and idiots happy to believe everything they read on FB /TikTok with half a brain cell between them.

We've briefly considered a to move from Europe back to UK, however since Brexit I'm not sure how easy it would be for my EU partner to be allowed to live there. We're both employed and can work remotely from the UK, but I wonder if that enough these days to be allowed to live there? I'm a UK passport holder still but have been a resident of another country for more than 20 years and we're not married.

I've lived in three countries, and there are pros and cons to living anywhere in my experience.

We definitely had a higher standard of living/better quality of life in the previous place where we lived, but there are things that are better about the UK too. Right now, I think things in the UK are significantly worse than they have been for quite some time, unfortunately, and there isn't much prospect of them getting better any time soon.

The main reason I'm still here is because of family. I just don't want to be far away from my ageing parents. And I'll probably stay here when they're gone because I won't want to be far from dd... unless she moves abroad herself.

It's a very personal decision, I think. And it's an emotional decision as much as it is a rational one.

Expected to be able to retire, full time to Europe. We can't live in Europe full time.

I couldn't leave 5 years ago. I work.

@ChipsAreLife so it’s certainly possible to run a business in one and live in another - we’ve done it for about 4 years now. You just need a good accountant who will tell you how to set it up so you only pay tax in one (your main residence country). There’s a few things to do but it works fine from a tax perspective.

in any country there are a huge variety of experiences depending on your specific circumstances.

Insecure rental housing doesn't affect you if you can afford to buy.

Choosing between heating or eating affects those on low incomes, those on higher incomes may be affected e.g. by having a slightly cheaper holiday than usual/cutting down on eating out or an expensive hobby.

Trains are expensive to use every day - if you use them for occasional holiday travel and book a couple of months in advance and out of peak hours then they are a lot cheaper.

We came back from South Africa at the end of 2019, and that meant I was able to see and spend time with my father before he died, support my mother through lock down. I have a secure job that pays the bills (including a mortgage - we were able to buy), DD is in an incredible state school that has identified her SEN and provided excellent support. The NHS is now processing various referrals for further assessments, and post-adoption are providing specialist assessments to be followed by therapeutic services.

I have a great circle of new, local friends that I have met walking the dog, plus have been able to spend time with old friends from pre-South Africa. We have a good moan about political matters, but I have had those sorts of conversations with friends for years!

DD can hop on one of the regular buses to go to school, meet up with friends etc and this is free. I WFH most of the time, but can be at work in central London within an hour when I need to go in. I don't need to own a car, public transport is so extensive (and can get an Uber or hire a car if necessary), so that is one significant expense removed (the other being private medical insurance).

Downsides - missing friends that we left in SA (but we chat often through Whatsapp and other SM), and not being near a beach.

But as I said, it depends so much on individual circumstances.

Expected to be able to retire, full time to Europe. We can't live in Europe full time.

I couldn't leave 5 years ago. I work.

@HarleySq is that because you cannot afford to? You expected the lucky country you chose to support you, subsidised by other UK taxpayers?

Yes its a lot more paperwork now. You can't just move somewhere in Europe on a whim now like you could pre-Brexit, you have to have a reason like work (as in already have a job in the country you move to), family members living there, or studying there, or be independently rich so you can fully support yourself and get a residence permit on that basis. Then there's applying for the first residence permit, then renew regularly until you are able to apply for a permanent residence permit, and each time there's a risk you'll get denied.

@Natsku isn't that already the case in the EU? Otherwise, wouldn't all the young unemployed people in Spain and Greece just move to where there are jobs? There are still residence requirements across the EU, such as not being a burden on the host country; the UK just chose not to enforce them (largely because of the far left wing activists and media who won't let us remove hardened foreign criminals, let alone nice EU citizens who just can't afford to pay their own way).

"Staying in another EU state for up to 90 days
As an EU citizen, EEA or Swiss national, you can travel within the territory of the European Union, the EEA and Switzerland. You do not need a visa to travel to another EU, EEA country or Switzerland and your passport should not be stamped upon exiting your country or entering another country.
EU countries must not set conditions (other than needing a passport or national identity card, or to report their presence to the authorities) for EU citizens to enter their country.
This means that you should not be asked to prove that you have an offer of employment, money to live off, are registered with a college, or have any other particular business or purpose to visiting the EU member state.
EU citizens, EEA or Swiss nationals who arrive in Ireland must have a passport or national identity card. If you are travelling in mainland Europe, you may be allowed to move between countries without showing your passport or identity card (in the Schengen Areaa_).
Family members of EU, EEA or Swiss citizens, who are not citizens themselves, may have to apply for a visa to enter Ireland. See ‘Family memberss_’ below.
Your right to stay in an EU, EEA country or Switzerland for up to 90 days could be cancelled if you become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the member state. If you have recently moved to Ireland, have not been able to find work, and have no money to support yourself, the Irish state does not have to pay you social assistance. See ‘Restrictions on freedom of movementt_' below."

"Restrictions on freedom of movement
A member state can restrict free movement on the grounds of:
• Public policy
• Public security
• Public health
This means that you could be expelled from the EU/EEA country or Switzerland where you live in some circumstances. The longer you have lived legally in that country, the stronger the safeguards against being removed and returned to your country of nationality.
A Removal Order cannot be disproportionate. In other words, a country could be breaking EU law if they remove you without good reason and without an examination of the facts of your case.
Before a decision is made on granting a Removal Order against you, the member state must consider:
• The length of your stay in the country
• How well you are integrated (for example, your work history)
• Your age and health
• How removing you would impact other family members who would remain in the State
• The links you have to your country of origin

You may also be removed if you have lost your residency rights. This could happen if you have not found work after 3 months of residence and are not able to support yourself."

@HarleySq is that because you cannot afford to? You expected the lucky country you chose to support you, subsidised by other UK taxpayers?

Absolutely not. Why jump to rude and incorrect t assumptions @usernamealreadytaken
Nope have worked hard all of my life without any break in service as has my DH. We have great pensions that we have invested in over a long time. I've never had any expectation, ever, of anyone supporting me.

OP I haven't RTFT but I am a UK national and if I had the chance to leave at present, I think I'd take it.

Boris was bad but (going by her first 24 hours in office) Truss seems worse - how awful to sack the senior civil servant in charge of the Treasury! Civil Servants are meant to be non-political... Just bodes SO badly for how much partisan chaos she is intending to create.

20 years ago I was - while by no means a flag-wearing type - reasonably proud to be from the UK. I felt we treated our poorest and most vulnerable citizens with dignity; I was proud of the NHS; I felt that the police and courts system was by and large fair and delivered 'justice' to victims of crime and to criminals in a civilised way. I was proud of our education system too and felt like we as a nation invested in raising children who were competent thinkers, not just rote-learning automatons.

From what I can see, from what medic, lawyer, social worker and teacher friends and family tell me, all of that - what I thought of as the bed-rock of our national civilisation - has been damaged massively under 12 years of Tory slash-and-burn austerity policies. I honestly shudder to think what the future holds. I do have kids, and I feel so sad for them.

I'm not sure where you'd be coming from and that would of course affect your specific pros and cons list - but if I could leave then I'd be leaving.

Best of luck.

@usernamealreadytaken see the difference there? Brits have to prove those things (job or study place etc.) while eu citizens do not, eu citizens can move and search for a job once they're already living there, which makes it a lot easier as employers are understandably more likely to offer a job to someone with an address in the country than to a non-eu person who doesn't even have a residence permit, let alone an address.

So what's stopping you living in Europe? AFAIK so long as you can support yourself they'll welcome you with open arms, is that not the case?

Those are the rules for EU citizens.

"Staying in another EU state for up to 90 days
As an EU citizen, EEA or Swiss national"

I’m coming back next year and looking forward to it. I miss London. I’ve just been staying in my flat there and want to retire and grow old there.

Yes. Which is why its more difficult for Brits post-brexit.

@Natsku you were under the impression, in your last response, that those were the rules for UK citizens and that's why you couldn't now move. In reality those are the rules which you would have had to follow before as they are the ones which were and still are applicable to EU citizens. Perhaps you're misinformed, and it would have always been difficult, but you chose to believe the misinformation which made it appear far easier?

In any event, if the UK had been able to apply the rules which were in place at the time, and UK citizens didn't have the impression that low paid EU workers could come here and simultaneously undermine wages and push up our welfare bill and contribute to the shortage of housing, then we probably wouldn't be in the position we are now, and you could have quite happily found it difficult to move to the EU.

Eh? Are you confused? Brits now have to prove certain things before they can apply for a residence permit, and this application must be done while you are still outside of the EU, you can't come here first and find a job so you can apply, which is a lot more paperwork and hassle than an EU citizen moving to another EU country, possible having to register their presence (not the same as applying for a residence permit) and then searching for a job. Depending on what kind of residence permit a Brit applied for, they may have to leave the country if they lose their job even if they could get a different job because the permit is only for a certain sector.

I'm not looking to move to the EU, I already live in the EU, you have me confused with another poster.

I'm always pondering it. We've lived in Canada for 6 years (I'm Canadian, DH is British) and I feel like I'm a pendulum, constantly swinging between the two.

Politically the UK is depressing right now for sure, but we have a wide circle of friends and family across the socioeconomic spectrum and no one seems to be particularly struggling.

The US may have some issues (largely exaggerated or totally misreported by the UK tabloids)

And that's just it- the problem is the British press, which exaggerates absolutely everything. If you are only looking at the UK press, you get a warped view of reality. We have almost all the same problems in Canada (and many more of our own- hello, Opioid cross) but itdoesn't seem as bad because the national conversation on these issues is less hysterical and fear mongering.

I've been in Australia for the last 17 years. Moving back early next year with a 12year old and 14year old. Love Australia but our time here is done. It's not been an easy decision to make but deep down, we now it's the right choice and for our family, financially it makes sense.

I don’t accept the Brexit reason tbh. What about the previous years. Why didn’t you move before Brexit. Some people aren’t that well travelled so they think all these other places are far superior. They really aren’t. Just come back from New York. Have been many times. It’s a great city break but not in a million years would I want to live there. I have a relative in the Middle East. She hates it but does it for the tax free status.

@usernamealreadytaken

Nope, not open arms, not if the PP wants to go to The Ntherlands, for instance. Due to Brexit, it is no longer the case, without meeting previous residency or relative links.
ind.nl/en/living-in-the-netherlands-after-brexit#2

We moved to a EU country just before lockdown and got our residency in 2020. It was fairly straightforward as I hold an Irish passport. We also run a UK company from here. But now it would be impossible if I didn't hold an Irish passport. If we were normal British passport holders we would not be allowed to stay here or run a business. We would need to apply for a non lucrative visa....so not allowed to work . I know the government here are try to bring a Digital Nomad Visa in but currently that's not available. Brexit is a disaster for anyone wanting to live in the EU from the UK.

I love living here, yes it's early days but fortunately I can get back to visit family in 2 hours. I am strssfree, kids are safe and independent. We are always outside and have incredible family time as its mostly sunny. Traffic is minimal, haven't been stuck in a jam for 3 years ( only when we go back to the uk) .No angry fighting drunks to contend with either. Electricity is very expensive here but food and eating out is cheap . Never going back

Nope - much prefer my lifestyle overseas, especially as I have young kids. I don't have much family in the U.K. though and I'm close enough for visits to be fairly doable.

We are in EU and deliberately made the move in the transition period. It is MUCH harder now for British people to relocate to Europe without a good job/ visa sponsorship. Without that you need lots of savings/ independent income, talking over £20k plus per year and more for dependants - hence why so many people's retirement plans to Spain etc have been kaiboshed.

Your original response to my question was "
Yes its a lot more paperwork now. You can't just move somewhere in Europe on a whim now like you could pre-Brexit, you have to have a reason like work (as in already have a job in the country you move to), family members living there, or studying there, or be independently rich so you can fully support yourself and get a residence permit on that basis. Then there's applying for the first residence permit, then renew regularly until you are able to apply for a permanent residence permit, and each time there's a risk you'll get denied."

Brits can visit the EU visa-free for up to 90 days, so anyone wishing to travel to find a job can do so, and apply for the necessary visa if required (some jobs don't require a visa).