DH wants to move abroad, I don’t

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My DH has a dream to live in Sweden, but I am not so keen. We are both from the UK, but his family have Swedish links. After the brexit vote his parents unexpectedly moved to Sweden permanently as they were unhappy with their retirement life in the Uk. Since the the pressure for us to move there has been ever increasing. It would require a lot of effort for us to move there now (post brexit). Neither of us speak the language and as we are both professionals we would need to sit various exams to continue on our career paths or change jobs completely. Although Sweden is very appealing in many ways, I’m mostly worried about the weather, particular in the winter as I suffer severe SAD. I also worry about being lonely, I don’t find it that easy to make friends at the best of times let alone when I can’t speak a language. I have a great family and friendship circle in the uk and really don’t want to leave that. My other concern is that my husband wouldn’t be considering the move if his parents lived in the uk. They can be quite impulsive and may well moved back to the uk at any point and then we would end up being in a country with no one.

Years ago I would have agreed to a trial move despite my concerns, but in recent years our marriage isn’t as strong. I worry about the implications should we move over as a family and then separate whilst there. When we talk about living there it makes me sad and angry. However we are stalemate, we need to move out of our tiny place that is now too small for us as we have two young boys. He won’t engage in looking for a new property in the uk.

I don’t know how to move forward. Do I just give in? Do I give up my dreams to make him happy? We’ve discussed a trial year there but he has openly said it would be a trial with a view of staying where as I want it to be just a trial. I’ve asked him to sort out counselling so that we could go through that but he hasn’t (I’ve asked him to do this for about 2years now). I’m not willing to arrange this as I always sort everything out for our family and it is not my dream.

Not without jobs for both of you. Not without solid couples counselling cor a year! How old are your kids? It's a very different school system.

I work for a Swedish company and have spent lots of time there. The swedes are very very hard to form a friendship with. They are not a chatty people! The most miserable expats I've known are those stuck in Sweden. They end up choosing friends from the expat community which is small and transient. The weather is properly bloody awful for most of the year.

I love living in Sweden. Came here with DH 15 years ago. The first few years were hard, really hard. And we didn't have to cope with finding work as DH was offered a job while we were in the UK.

Based on my experience, don't do it unless it's something you really want because if you change your mind, and/or your marriage doesn't survive, you'll be stuck here because of your children.

Just say you’ll give it a go if he can arrange jobs for you and work out how you’ll afford somewhere to live. Also visas, schools etc. I’m kind of doing this with my dh and he can’t manage any of these things (since they’re pretty much impossible), but he’s still under the impression that we might be moving.

It would be madness.

You have SAD
Neither of you speak the language
You would need further exams
The culture shock will be huge!

Let him crack on and go by himself

This, except I'd be asking him to become fluent (written and spoken) in the language, with a work visa and a job that pays as well as your current combined income.

It'd be a bit difficult and expensive now unless you have EU citizenship. Brexit's largely made the decision for you, probably.

Hmm, I don't think Brexit is the most problematic issue in this scenario. In fact Brexit may be a blessing.

There’s absolutely no reason to go.
you don’t want to.
your marriage isn’t strong, he doesn’t care about your opinions or concerns
you’ve asked him to show he wants to work on your marriage with therapy and he does not.
he’s showing you his priorities
stay put. Can you make the house work?

can you suggest a trial year (or more) in the uk instead - you’ll work on your marriage, each try to learn the language. Get into a better position to move so you’ll be happier etc. If not then you know what’s important and it’s not you

I would be insisting on a whole lot before I thought of agreeing to this, starting with joint counselling. Surely you need to both be fully committed to make a move like this, not to mention all the practicalities of speaking the language, housing, schools, finances, arranging jobs, understanding what would happen if you split up whilst in Sweden. You may never be able to come back without leaving your kids behind.

Just don't do it.
And nobody should be encouraging you to do it given as you've said your marriage isn't strong

Just tell him you don't want to but he is welcome to go if he wishes to. And make that your line in the sand.

He is hellbent on going and you're equally hellbent on not. There is no compromise so tell him he can go if he wants to and just don't budge from that

It looks like he's prioritising his relationship with his parents over yours. Normally, I'd be "Wow, Sweden, sounds great, find a way to give it a go" but not with his attitude.

If they're as close as you say, why did his parents bog off to Sweden?

Absolutely do not do this.

You should only ever move if your marriage is rock solid.

Yours isn't. You will be giving up your dreams (your own words) to facilitate his. You will become one in a long line of women who have let themselves be coerced into giving a man the life he wants, when that man would never for a second contemplate giving up what he wants to give his wife the dream.

The almost certain outcome is that this move will destroy your marriage, destroy you, and you will be trapped living in this country as your children are there. It will turn into a living nightmare that you can't wake up from.

Do not underestimate how hard it is starting a whole new life, at this stage in life and with kids in tow. Do not underestimate the horror of realising you have just thrown away everything you ever built up, career, community, friends. All your supports, everything that held you up and made you yourself, gone. Just gone. Damn right you will be lonely. And if you find it hard to make friends anyway. I've always been able to make friends but, jesus, trying to make friends at this stage in life after a move to a new country has been painfully difficult. And I didn't even have a language barrier.

And frankly, given what you have written here about how you feel about it and the impact it will have on you, your husband, if he were a decent man, would not even be considering asking you to do this. This is all about him. Do not do this for a man who is not having regard for you at all.

Don't, don't, DON'T do it.

PM me if you want.

My Swedish friends in London like to joke that they got expelled from Sweden for talking too much - many a true word spoken in jest!. It is not easy to befriend Swedes, even if you have the language. I think it could get very lonely.

Also, realistically, you need to be fluent in Swedish before you arrive to take the exams don't you? That could take years!

Sweden is a signatory yo the Hague Convention, so if you separated over there you would need his permission to return to the UK with the kids. In your situation I would not go.

I am Swedish and have recently moved back there from the UK. I am absolutely over the moon at being back, and I love pretty much everything about living in Stockholm again. Having said that, in your position, I would not go. You need to both be in love with the idea for it to work. If there is hesitation from either of you it’s going to be miserable. Also, where in Sweden does he want to move to? Some areas are easier than others as an expat. Especially when it comes to finding work, but then those places are expensive so you would need a lot of cash, unless he is planning for you to live with and off his parents. It also doesn’t sound like either of you have the right to live here at the moment, so that is another big concern,.

I honestly don’t think what he is planning is even possible. You don’t have the basics in place, and with two children you can’t just go on a whim.

If you go it becomes your kids place of residence so you'll have to stay even if you divorce.

It is really hard moving to a new country.
OP you could end up reliant on your husband and his family, and therefore quite stuck.
He is already quite inconsiderate and pushy, and you guys are married- what on earth would it be like if your marriage failed? He isn’t going to become all reasonable and fair, is he?

If you really want to try it, I would insist on you all learning the language intensely for at least a year- sort out your exams while in the UK, and have serious conversations about what happens if your marriage fails

We moved around alot in the past with DH job.

It was hard enough with a strong marriage and it tested us at times. I certainly wouldn't with a rocky one. No way.

You would have a better quality of living in Sweden and the Swedes speak great English so you'd be able to get by in the beginning before you become proficient enough to use the language. Being in country is also the best way to learn a language so that would come with time.

However, it is understandable you are worried about jobs and starting over. Being able to financially support yourselves is important and if you'd both need to retrain, what would you do for money whilst both retraining?

Starting over can be daunting but also a great opportunity. Starting hobbies or even one thing you enjoy helps to make friends.

Lastly, I think your DH is being incredibly unfair forcing you into it. A trial year should be just that, a trial. He's being ridiculous suggesting it's a trial year but before you then move permanently.
I think if you decide to go, you need to have a chat about what would happen if he wants to stay and you want to come back. Schengen means that you can't take your children out the country without dad's approval (I'm also in an EU country) so technically you could end up stuck there if he doesn't give you permission to take your boys back to the UK.

Completely agree with this. Your husband won’t even agree to a trial year! He’s calling it a trial but “with a view to staying” which means it’s not a trial at all.

The whole thing sounds like a disaster and if you split up you may end up having to leave him and the kids over there. Please get some legal advice on this last point. I’ve seen this happen to several people on Mumsnet.

I wonder how life is for the ILs.

Are they wanting family there for selfish reasons. I am a retiree in U.K. and it is a good place to be (unless you are greatly into winter sports)- lots of history, hobbies, gardens, you can retire to the seaside, the hills the beautiful countryside. Art and culture a train ride away.
Are they happy there?

Ohrwurm’s post is painfully naive. Please ignore it in its entirety. Do not have a ‘chat’ about what to do if your marriage fails whilst over there. A ‘chat’ is not legally binding and will not be kept to. Your H is already unreasonable and fair, he is not going to become reasonable and fair to you upon your marriage breaking down. He will get even worse.

And ‘opportunity’ is only so if it is something you want to do. Leaving everything and everyone you love and value, to move towards nothing that you want, is not ‘an opportunity’, it’s catastrophically traumatic.

And a forced start in a new country with no job, no friends, a language barrier and trapped in a deteriorating marriage, and unable to leave with your kids Is not a ‘better quality of life’.

You sound like you already have a quality of life through you good relations with friends and family. Stay here and keep that quality in your life.

ohrwurm clearly has no grasp of the current context of your life or the situation you would be moving to. Please, for your sake, ignore them.

in all honesty, the choice you need to face is not whether you move to Sweden but whether you wish to remain in your marriage at all. Say a firm ‘no’ to the first and seriously ponder the second.

It sounds as though he is as impulsive as his parents. At his age, he will be expected to contribute in Sweden to tax and so on, but his pension surely won't be anything like the one somebody would get if they'd always worked there. The language would be incredibly difficult to learn, particularly as it wouldn't use just for leisure but for work as well.

How old are the children? How would you feel if he went on his own?

DH and I moved to Sweden a few years ago and love living here, but based on what you're saying, it does not sound like this move is right for you. Aside from the (very important) legal aspects of what would happen if you divorce, etc., my experience is that it is difficult enough to make things work in a new country even if you really want to be there, let alone if you don't.

It sounds like counselling should be your first step. And your husband needs to understand that this is not 'counselling to improve your marriage in advance of a move'. If he agrees to counselling there's no obligation on you to then agree to a move.